Senate Christianity Discussion Thread

So was JP2 and New Guy too, I think.

 

Jesus spent a LOT of time secluded with men. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of hot gay sex occurred then, which means the whole "though shalt not bum another man; God totes hates that" is just a PR campaign to promote Jesus to young teenage girls.

Like Elvis.

 

Galatians 3 verses 28 and 29 say this: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

 

The Roman Catholic Church was not a state institution of the Roman Empire and didn't even really exist when the Western Empire was still around. It's only called "Roman" because the Pope is the Bishop of Rome. And anti-Semitism among Romans predates their conversion to Christianity anyway.

 

You are aware that Jesus toured Sodom and Gomorrah to see if he could find enough righteous people to save those cities? (I say that because He promised that He'd spare Sodom and Gomorrah if there were counted 5 righteous there.) Then the cities were rained on with fire and brimstone, and voilá, instant Dead Sea basin.

 

that depends. are you aware that marduk slayed the chaos dragon tiamat and VOILA instant indian ocean?

 

She was Chaotic Evil though, she had it coming.

 

Ender, are we going to have any actual discussions or are you just jumping from question to question fishing for an answer from some of the participants that you find amusing?

 

You know the point I'm trying to make Guy, but I suppose you need to get some value out of your education.

 

Added to this I'd say it's difficult to separate the messenger from the message. The OT books are largely written for purposes other than a dry historical narrative - they are rather far more concerned with imputing a cause/meaning/reason to events than recording events, as it were. Perhaps the most glaring difference between NT and OT on that point comes from the words attributed to Jesus in Luke 13:4-5 - "Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no!" -- which stands rather pointedly against the various OT accounts of people being cursed with plagues or Israelites afflicted with military defeats because of their sins. The OT God is written about by men in a very different historical and cultural context.

Religious doctrines also have to be interpreted in that context. Original Sin as justified on the Bible is wholly the invention of St. Augustine of Hippo. It proceeds from an exegesis of the Bible which -- Karen Armstrong argues -- was written against the background of the destruction of the Western Roman Empire. Augustine (354-430) lived through the sack of Rome in 410, and one of his more important works (De Civitas Dei) was written in the aftermath of that event, so much so that he characterised human history as a struggle between the City of Man and the City of God. Original Sin had been mentioned by Iraenaeus in the second century (same guy who delivered the basis for the Pope's primacy as Peter's successor, lol) but Augustine formalised it and taught it. Original Sin is in substance a statement of the depravity of the human condition - and given Augustine lived through what amounted to one of the more tumultuous periods of history in that part of the world, you can understand even if you can't sympathise with his thinking being influenced by that. It is intriguing, to say the least, that the Eastern church, i.e. Eastern Orthodox, and centred on Byzantium, never adopted Original Sin -- perhaps, Armstrong argues, because it still had officially speaking another thousand-odd years to go before Constantinople would suffer Rome's fate.

 

You all should read Lamb by Christopher Moore.

 

The previous psycho editor was fired in order to give a more mellow fellow a chance. Guess he did a good job considering all those copies sold.

Sent from my Samsung Mega Astromech Droid

 

should i be concerned that lately we seem to be getting a new rabid fundie to play with on an almost biweekly basis, or is it simply more evidence of the declining relevance of star wars to the cultural mainstream?

 

my stab at a cultural explanation (from a structural-functionalist perspective anyways) would be that judaism (for which the "old testament" was written) is fundamentally a tribal religion and therefore much more interested creating and maintaining identity (us vs them) through strict rules (which function as cultural markers) and mythmaking about the glorious past, special destiny, and military invincibility of a particular ethnic group. by contrast christianity began as a tiny cult in a ployglot, multi-ethnic empire and needed to grow rapidly to survive, through proselytization of non-jews. therefore, in establishing a body of scripture, it had less of a mandate for defining clear "us vs them" lines of identity and more of a mandate for "lets get together and feel alright" in order to be useful for the group(s) it represented and to perpetuate itself.

this is basically what ophelia said but more precise, secular, and social sciencey

 

Wocky, I saw your post (you should tag people properly!) and I would have spoke further to your point only I am actually somewhat sated with Rogue's answer. As if anything else could suffice.

 

Funny thing is, ancient Israel wasn't even that much of a military power. I mean, they got conquered by outsiders how many times? Even the Old Testament repeatedly states that the Israelites were not strong and were not powerful...that only through God's actions were they spared catastrophe on many occasions, and when the Israelites did let pride and hubris get the better of them, God would just say "have fun losing your little war!"

 

precisely. the religious/cultural identity becomes associated with martial strength. "the only way we can win this war is by circumcizing more babies and not wearing mixed fabrics guys"

when they fail it is because they weren't jewish enough. when they succeed it was because they remained true to judaism. in this way the religion reinforces itself as an ethnic identity and provides a source of pride, hope, and direction for the group

 

The fact that God kept hardening Pharoe's heart whenever Moses was dumping frogs in people's ponds and whatnot, clearly shows that he was racist towards Egyptians.

 

that is an interesting episode tho: "if you dont do what i 'want' ill make horrible things happen and murder children" *magically subverts your free will such that you dont do what he supposedly wants* "whelp... guess we're doin this the hard way "

 

A handful of members of the WORLD CHAMPION SEATTLE SEAHAWKS, got together and made a pretty cool video. It is intended to be an ongoing ministry.

 

predictable.

 

I cried, and it takes a lot to make me cry. Amazing video. What's awesome is these guys, Super Bowl champs, are giving the glory to God, and saying it's all for naught without Him. I've never really been in to football, but I have a whole new respect for the Seahawks now.

I'm going to assume you meant that as an insult, but truth be told, you're exactly right! This is the Christianity Discussion Thread, and we will discuss Christianity here. I can discuss how a failure in basically all walks of life can be made whole in Jesus, how a man who constantly turns his back on a loving Father is constantly forgiven by that Father...how I, all that I am, is nothing without Christ.

 

don't get me wrong. I'm a Christian. But I did mean it as an insult. because as a Christian, i'd love to see our faith and tradition expressed in creative ways that make people think and are actually compelling, instead of trite cliches that everybody expects and hold pretty much zero meaning to thinking people these days.

unfortunately, ours is a culture that doesn't value creativity or originality very much, so it seems pretty stagnant and dead. which this video does a perfect job of representing. it'd be rad to see more christians take advantage of the freedom of expression (not to mention doubt) and experimentation offered by our faith rather than fall back into silly and ultimately shallow expressions of whatever their hearts are feeling or whatever. #endrant #mybad

 

FWIW, the video was made mostly in the pre-season. They have some good men on their roster (every team has at least a few). I am excited to see how that ministry grows. Clint Gresham (featured in the vid) spends MUCH of his free time working in Young Life in the Seattle area.

Creativity in what though? The Gospel of Jesus Christ is timeless. It doesn't need to be fancy, artsy or creative. It is what it is and it is wholly powerful. If it needs to be prettied up, then you are not falling in love with Jesus, you are falling in love with something else.

Unless of course that is TOTALLY not what you were getting at and I am WAY off the mark then, CARRY ON!

 

You're definitely right about the degradation of society, but that was predicted as far back as Daniel I believe. I don't happen to see the video in the light that you express, but to each his own I suppose. How would you prefer Christianity expressed then, like some examples?