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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit How much did Dooku know?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Vialco, Dec 15, 2012.

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  1. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    You're agreeing with me, unless I'm misreading :p


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Sinrebirth , Mar 1, 2014
    #76
  2. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    No, he really thinks Dooku was sincere in not understanding how the Republic came up with an army. Because he would totally admit to the Separatists that he bankrolled the Republic's army.
     
    DigitalMessiah, Mar 1, 2014
    #77
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  3. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Ah ha.


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    Sinrebirth , Mar 1, 2014
    #78
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  4. Bullhead CIty

    Bullhead CIty Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2012
    That's a good point. It makes you wonder if Palpatine gave Dooku a strong indication that his vision of a galactic enema was that the Separatists-side were the victors of the Clone Wars?

    I know what was said in the ROTS novelization concerning Dooku as the head of a new Jedi Order. I've thought that perhaps, from Dooku's standpoint, this scenario plays out with the Separatists winning the war? Thus affecting real change in the galaxy, abolishing the corrupt Senate and the weak Jedi Order? That's a scenario Dooku may have bought into wholeheartedly. Palpatine could have made it seem, from Dooku's POV, that he planned on bringing down the Republic from the inside out.


    I really hope we get that rumored, "Darth Tyrannus" novel from Luceno one day....
     
    Bullhead CIty, Mar 1, 2014
    #79
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  5. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Jedi Knight star 1

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    Oct 6, 2013
    Yes I can't see anything not to agree with!

    It all works out well in hindsight, but it was obviously not the plan when filming that particular scene of AOTC for Dooku to be "pretending" to not know about the republic army.
     
    TheJediBrah, Mar 1, 2014
    #80
  6. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Of all the plot holes and continuity errors in the prequels, this isn't.
     
    _Catherine_, Mar 1, 2014
    #81
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  7. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    Of course it was the plan. In the same film Jango said he was hired by Tyranus. Tyranus = Dooku.
     
    Arawn_Fenn, Mar 1, 2014
    #82
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  8. Darth_Calgmoth

    Darth_Calgmoth Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 7, 2006
    Dooku pretended that he was surprised about the Republic army because his allies - Poggle, the Confederate senators, and the heads/representatives of corporations - didn't know that this was a fake war. Or at least they didn't know that Dooku was involved in creating the clone army.
     
    Darth_Calgmoth, Mar 1, 2014
    #83
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  9. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    Or maybe it is the linchpin that caused the prequels to fail?

    This is some Cad Bane level stuff here.

    Edit: Seriously though, I'm curious what Dooku should have said if he really knew about the clone army? "Damnit, the Republic found the clone army I had created for them!"
     
    DigitalMessiah, Mar 1, 2014
    #84
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  10. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Dooku was piling on a big pile of poodoo when he seemed surprised that the Republic had created an army. He even told Sidious that war starting was "good news."

    As far as the whole Kamino thing, here's my theory about what the Jedi thought:

    1. The Jedi believe that the Sith were taking advantage of the chaos caused by the Trade Federation's aggression.
    2. IIRC, Sifo Dyas had a reputation of being a couple of nuggets shy of a Happy Meal
    3. Sifo Dyas believes that the Sith are actually behind the TF's aggression.
    3a. The Jedi don't believe him because of #1 and #2.
    4. Sifo Dyas diverts funds to create a clone army to combat the Sith's droid army.
    5. Dooku catches wind of it, and murders Sifo Dyas.
    5a. The Kaminoans were all too happy to keep on waiting until someone dropped by to pick up the order placed, because it had already been paid for.
    5b. With Sifo Dyas dead, there would be no one to do that.
    6. Kamino is a backwater [face_mischief] so there would be no need to take action any more drastic than a simple assassination.
    6a. Anything more direct would've drawn unnecessary attention to Dooku before he was ready.
    7. With his droid army now consolidated, and the clone army prevented from being claimed by the Republic, no one could've stopped his aggressions.
    8. Sure, Sifo Dyas was right about #3, but in reality Dooku was secretly the Master, and Maul was his apprentice.
    8a. Remember, the vast majority of Quinlan Vos' arc was about finding "Dooku's apprentice."
    8b. As far as the Jedi were concerned, that apprentice was probably Ventress.
    9. Sure was a good thing that Master Kenobi uncovered Dooku's plans!
     
    Jedi Merkurian , Mar 1, 2014
    #85
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  11. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    ^ IIRC they say essentially this at one point in LOE.
     
    Arawn_Fenn, Mar 1, 2014
    #86
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  12. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    May 25, 2000
    From what I recall from the RotS novelization, what Dooku thought the post-Clone Wars plan was:

    Publicly, Jedi Master Dooku was always depicted as the well-intentioned opposition who was unaware of/not in control of/therefore not responsible for the worst atrocities of the Clone Wars; General Grievous was the be the scapegoat for that. After an epic battle which involved the tragic death of "the Negotiator," AKA the second biggest hero in the galaxy, AKA Obi-Wan Kenobi, Master Dooku would be defeated and captured by the biggest hero in the galaxy, AKA the Hero Without Fear, AKA Anakin Skywalker.

    Once taken into custody and made aware of the Grievous' war crimes, Master Dooku would disavow the Separatists, and be offered amnesty by the benevolent Supreme Chancellor in return for intelligence on the Separatists. Meanwhile, Anakin Skywalker would begin to voice dissatisfaction with the state of the Jedi Order, leading to a purge and reformation.

    Privately, Sidious had fed Tyranus an epic load of nerfshavit that the Rule of Two would be discarded, that Darth Tyranus would be the Grandmaster of an army of Sith Knights, and that Anakin was to be his first apprentice.
     
    Jedi Merkurian , Mar 1, 2014
    #87
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  13. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Jedi Knight star 1

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    Oct 6, 2013
    I wish I were gullible enough to believe that was the intention when it was written, it would be one less thing to worry about.

    I feel like we're going around in circles now
     
    TheJediBrah, Mar 1, 2014
    #88
  14. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    I think it's obvious what's going on now.
     
    DigitalMessiah, Mar 1, 2014
    #89
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  15. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Jedi Knight star 1

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    Oct 6, 2013
    I agree that it's not really a "continuity error" though, since it can so easily be explained away with "Dooku was acting/lying".
     
    TheJediBrah, Mar 1, 2014
    #90
  16. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    It doesn't need to be explained away because he was acting/lying. Oh wait you'd have to be gullible to believe that.

    I think the biggest error in the prequels though is how Palpatine is chummy with the Jedi for like 90% of them. We know he hates them so why the heck was he being all buddy buddy with Yoda and Mace?

    how is star wars going get out of this one
     
    DigitalMessiah, Mar 1, 2014
    #91
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  17. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Jedi Knight star 1

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    Oct 6, 2013
    Not necessarily gullible. Just misinformed. It all works out well if you pretend that it was intentional though, so, as I said, not a huge issue.
     
    TheJediBrah, Mar 2, 2014
    #92
  18. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    Misinformed, huh?
     
    DigitalMessiah, Mar 2, 2014
    #93
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  19. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Jedi Knight star 1

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    Oct 6, 2013
    I don't see where this conversation is going. I think we are both well aware of what the other's opinion is and going around in circles like this is just tedious.
     
    TheJediBrah, Mar 2, 2014
    #94
  20. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    There's no need to pretend, because that's what actually happened. Remember that part at the end where he said "I have good news, Master Sidious. War has begun."
     
    Jedi Merkurian , Mar 2, 2014
    #95
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  21. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Jedi Knight star 1

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    Oct 6, 2013
    And around in circles we go again
     
    TheJediBrah, Mar 2, 2014
    #96
  22. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    We?
     
    DigitalMessiah, Mar 2, 2014
    #97
  23. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 17, 2011
    Not even sure what's goin on anymore lol I have yet to see a real issue.
     
    DarthJenari, Mar 2, 2014
    #98
  24. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    I prefer to go around in triangles.
     
    Arawn_Fenn, Mar 2, 2014
    #99
  25. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    May 25, 2000
    Ehhh..what the heck...

    For sake of discussion, what's your point?
     
    Jedi Merkurian , Mar 2, 2014
    #100
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