Full Series Sabine

Narutakikun

Unless Obi-Wan or Satine are carrying one hell of a load of recessive Asian genes, I'm going to go with "no."

 

OK... first of all, this whole conversation transpired because of an article about the conversation surrounding Sabine. It's allllllll about Sabine, if tangentially.

To be fair, you're calling for a change of subject but making exit digs. So--to be fair--I have to point something out here: Personally, I regularly do volunteer work. You're right that the conversation has gone somewhere ridiculous, but that's not my fault, and I'm sure as hell not typing all that out and leaving anybody with the idea that I won't put my money where my mouth is. But the fact is, portrayal of race in the media is important--whether you wish to acknowledge it or not--because it can empower people and make them want to rise above societal oppression. The leading cause of educational failure in low-income minorities is stress... and escapism has the power reduce stress. It all adds up and contributes to why the people you describe are more concerned about their mortgage payments: exclusionary media affects the perceptions of majorities negatively, and in turn puts greater pressure on minorities.

[...]

If there's any leading cause for derailing this thread, it's all the people who think it's justified to call foul on the posters who are celebrating the diversity that Sabine represents. If you're that tired of the conversation, then don't reply to this. Reply to this instead:

So, back to the old EU Mandalorian clan culture? That seems to be the other thing Sabine's phenotype represents, so I'm surprised so many people seem to be responding negatively...

 

No personal attacks -TG

 

Not the writers, the PR people. The marketing department. I know that's not Weisman's MO, and whatever problems Filoni had with Ahsoka, he sure as hell wasn't worried about her being outspoken and confident. But the why...yeah, good question. The answers tend to suck though.

You and me both.

Which just means that it's all the more important that kids get to see someone who represents them onscreen. There will be more than just white kids watching this show, more than white people need to be on it.

Nope. Nice try though.

Escapism is for everyone. And "political neuroses"? Just stop.

It'd be more fun if everybody didn't have to relate to the same straight white dude heroes all the time.

I'll bet you have. Doesn't seem to have kept you from saying ****** up, ignorant **** on the internet though. Crazy how that works.

I love how the "not trying to sound racist, totally not sexist, and definitely not homophobic" racist, misogynistic, homophobe (you've left quite a trail of posts on the forum, dude) is going to try to call out somebody else on their life choices, like you have the moral high ground.

Nice try, it's called being an ally. If he's not crossing a line, talking over POC, or some **** like that, the dude's more than welcome to step up and call out the problematic **** as he sees it.

lol The old separate but equal argument, right? Yeah *that* always works out well...

You sure *don't* make it hard, that's for damn sure.

 

This is such a cop-out, lazy-ass answer, a few short steps away from the Arrested Development joke about not tipping black people so as not to insult them with charity.

You know what? I can do both. Acting like you know somebody's life based on their forum posts is ridiculous. For all I said in response to that other guy's post, it was nothing more than a response to his words... not a presumption about him, as a person. The same to you. Anyway, before you start comparing accomplishments with someone you know literally nothing about, you obviously missed the part where I said I do regular volunteer work. In low-income areas. With human beings. I'm not gonna wear it like a friggin' badge, but assuming that I don't because I also post on a forum is absurd. Anyway, you essentially implied to Mia that writing about the portrayal of minorities in the media was a waste of time, and I told you you're wrong. Just because you don't care to read articles on the subject doesn't mean it won't affect someone positively.

And by the way, I have lived both lives. I'm half Jewish, but I live in the south and look totally white. Funny story: I once had a job at a sign shop in Georgia. Paid the bills, boss was real nice... until it came up that I had some good ol' hymie blood in my veins. I got fired a week later, and had no legal recourse, as Georgia has a no-fault job termination policy. But you know what? Life is awesome for me when people think I'm white. That is how I know there's a problem, and that is why I won't just shut up about it.

I apologize for further derailment, and take full responsibility.

 

**** apologies, preach the truth.

 

Oh, I agree. Which makes me wonder why you feel that hurling charges of bigotry at people based on their forum posts is justifiable.

Or perhaps you mean that it's ridiculous when OTHERS do it, but perfectly reasonable when YOU do it.

Nothing else in the previous couple of posts is worth responding to, so I will - if we can finally let it go - simply leave it at that.

 

Statements can be bigoted in and of themselves. I wouldn't accuse that guy of being bigoted, but what he said held certain implications, and I responded to those implications. Earlier, Drenn made a statement which, despite his best intentions, had negative associations with white exclusionism. When I explained that, he saw my point and agreed, admitting that it was mostly theoretical. Things can be bigoted no matter who says them, and their logic can even be unknowingly divisive. It's so common that I bet Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., probably said something bigoted a few times in his life, and that's OK; discussions go to dark places--I'd argue that they should, as I'm not in favor of taboos--but it's up to somebody to pull it out of that place and explain where the logic goes wrong.

You were doing fine, but didn't need this

Mods: Good morning, I hope you slept well. I'm sure this will have blown over by the time you're awake. Please forgive the nonsense.

 

Bad form

 

Don't worry. I've got the grave yard shift and see this going on. I just don't even know how to touch this.

I don't want to close this thread, nor do I want to silence any discussion on race or try to make the topic off limits, people have the right to celebrate the increased diversity among the core cast (though I think such a topic about character diversity could stand to have it's own thread, rather than continuing to bog down Sabine's specifically, but I'm not going to unilaterally enforce it).

And ignorance is not something I can really punish someone for. So, as long as there are no personal attacks, I will leave it be for the time being.

 

Yunno, I think the line with the tagging will be whether they earn it or not. Getting in and getting out, then leaving a calling card (especially if it's some sort of a nonviolent/symbolic victory like in the Onderon arc) is cool. But lagging behind to tag something is clearly asking for trouble. Looking at her room, it could go either way; I admit I'd have preferred a cohesive mural over the random scribblings. It would make you take the "artist" thing a bit more seriously.

 

This thread is for the purpose of discussing Sabine and at @anakinfansince1983's great suggestion, here is the Diversity thread:

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/swtv-diversity-thread.50018773/

 

Trouble is, with the way the words are used in the media "spunky" and "fiesty" can mean anything from "get's really heated during debate class" to "will stab you in the stomach for your wallet." The best case scenario here is that the marketers specifically chose to use those words because it makes her sound non-threatening and harmless to the, shall we say... dudier members of the male viewership.

They always seem almost dismissive to me, like words you'd use to describe a ten year old or a dog.

 

Ummm, I think I'll avoid this thread.

 

We now have the SWTV diversity thread for discussions on race, gender, etc. If you're going to participate, though, keep the personal comments to yourself.

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/swtv-diversity-thread.50018773/

 

This, definitely.

The marketing they've got going with her is twisting itself in knots. Like Trip brought up in the Rebels Lit thread, they try to really downplay every single thing about her that could possibly sound at all feminine so she comes out attractive to the boys demographic that isn't going to want any "girly" stuff in their Star Wars, but at the same they have to limit how outwardly badass she sounds so that she still seems "safe" and yeah, non-threatening, to the dudebros who don't want any of that in their Star Wars either.

 

Wasn't Tangled originally supposed to be named something else, but had the name changed because they thought it would alienate the young male audience?

She seems like a variant of the Leia and Padme mold, only in a warrior capacity instead of being a "feisty/spunky" politician.

I don't even know what the definition of "spunky" is, though I hear it thrown around a lot, and I kind of know how it's used, but I don't know the literal definition, so I had to look it up.

Spunky: full of spirit, courage and determination.

Feisty I know to mean quarrelsome.

I mean, really those words seem vague enough to apply to both Padme and Leia, the prior of which was plenty feminine at times. So, I don't think those labels by themselves really reveal a whole hell of a lot. Basically, they seem to just be saying "she's not passive," though in more words that don't sound as boring.

I'm pretty much just picturing Mando Leia. Someone that butts heads with those that tell her what to do, or the brave, take charge kind of female character that doesn't want to follow the lead of someone else.

But Padme was far less exciting than Leia, IMO, yet you could still apply these words to someone like her. So, I really don't think these words mean much of anything in regards to giving me an idea of what she's going to be like (though I'm picturing artistic-Mando-Leia with explosives).

 

Some of the definitions do overlap to mean essentially the same thing - pretty much being "lively" and "spirited."

The way I defined "feisty" makes it sound negative, but the definition ranges from, again being lively, to not being afraid to argue. Which to me just means that she's a speak-her-mind kind of character that isn't passive or meek. But the same things apply to Padme just as much as Leia. And I like the latter but hate the former, so being "spunky" is not enough for me to really tell whether I'm going to like the character at all.

Just the way that she looks though, with her painted armor, and being a warrior, etc. just make me think she's going to be more uncouth and frank as Leia was in ANH ("Would somebody get this walking carpet out of my way?") rather than Padme who always seemed to try to maintain a certain dignified composure - to the point of being boring (IMO).

 

I don't think "feisty" seems all that safe or non-threatening (except due to sheer overuse), feisty is explicitly threatening. It's exactly what these "dudebros" wouldn't want, someone like Leia (they didn't want her, either) all "in their face". The only way she could be more threatening to these dudebros is to call her a feminist (omg!), which they would just immediately translate to that five letter word for female dog.

This very attitude is in the JCC right now...or, last time I checked.

 

idk "feisty" to me always sounds vaguely condescending, like, "oh isn't it adorable how feisty she is hahah what a cutie"

(and it is always "she" in my experience)

same for spunky, plus it's just an ugly word

 

Feisty:- Origin

late 19th century: from earlier feist, fist 'small dog', from fisting cur or hound, a derogatory term for a lapdog, from Middle English fist 'break wind', of West Germanic origin. Compare with fizzle.