Saga PT Yoda or OT Yoda?

Dooku stated a Sith Lord is gaining more and more power in the Senate. Who could that be? Mas Amedda! Got it!

No, because:
A. Darth Sidious is male
B. Darth Sidious was behind the entire crisis to gain more power in the Senate. Dooku also stated this.

How the hell does my opinion mean nothing? Because you don't agree with it?

They could have joined the Declaration of 2000 hypothetically.

Fixed. Stupid edit time limit.

 

I think the horse had well and truly bolted by that stage.

 

No. Dooku stated that hundreds of senators were under the influence of a Sith Lord. It could be anyone.

So? Palpatine played victim as well.

No, and if you read my whole comment instead of ignoring what's not convenient to you, you would see the reason for why it means nothing. Here, let me help you:

The Jedi serve the Republic senate and don't have a say on such things. The powers that Palpatine had were given by the senate. If the declaration of 2000 had passed, it would have been through the will of the senate as well.

 

Probably the best summary assessment of Yoda from the saga as a whole that I’ve seen yet, particularly how he works apropos to both halves. It’s weird how some fans all but refuse to even consider the character beyond the confines of the OT, as if any and every aspect of him from those films that wasn’t replicated in the prequels means failure.

 

Thanks, Ingram! Coming from you -- the architect of great, interesting, well-written posts on this board -- that genuinely means a lot to me.

I did think of adding, to the very end of my last paragraph, that I find it cool how even nine-hundred year-old elfin Jedi masters aren't immune to the weird dictates of the Force. The wisest archetype in the saga is just as sculpted by this metatextual duality as any other.

Moreover, yup... some fans show a very possessive, proprietary attitude toward SW and Yoda, and seem entirely unable or unwilling to understand that Yoda has an arc, just like every other aesthetic property within the story; and that this, in my opinion, makes the story better, not worse.

 

Yes, hundreds of Senators under the influence of one man... maybe it is the guy who is amounting more and more power in the Senate and is amending the Constitution for his own gain... Probably not.

He played victim to gain more power of course. Such are the ways of the Sith.

 

After 20 odd years of tutelage from Qui-Gon, I would say that OT Yoda is an improvement. But not much.

 

I don't see a reason to divide it between the 2 trilogies. I think most people would agree that Yoda's high points are in TESB. That's because we get to see him as a wise teacher in Luke's training sequence. His role as teacher in TESB is what gives him the opportunity to say so many wise and wonderful things. If GL had placed Yoda in the role of Anakin's wise trainer/teacher in the PT, then I think it would have seemed redundant. So, the best movie for Yoda is TESB because we get to see him do his thing, but he's still the same cool Yoda in the rest of the films--maybe just a little more world-weary in the OT.

I think Cryogenic's analysis is right on. Yoda is clearly suspicious of Palpatine as early as ATOC. The depiction of Yoda in the novelization of ROTS really develops what Cryogenic is saying. The conversation about whether the Jedi should remove Palpatine from power is greatly extended. Yoda makes some good points about Mace's lack of an end game. Yoda understands that turning on Palpatine without hard evidence would most likely turn the populace against the Jedi and serve as evidence for Palpatine's claim that the Jedi are power-hungry. He also makes the point that the Jedi will be Jedi even if the Republic falls. Their first allegiance isn't to the Republic, but to the light side of the Force. I actually think the ROTS argument about removing Palpatine should've been expanded to include some of what's in the novel. It's a pretty good argument with no easy answers.

In the theater in which I saw ATOC, people cheered when Yoda took out his lightsaber and dueled Dooku. They also thought it was great in ROTS when he nonchalantly forces pushes the 2 Imperial guards into the wall. I loved seeing Yoda in action, and I thought it was done great.

In regards to CGI vs. puppet, I love the old Yoda puppet from the OT, but if I'm totally objective about it, I think if I saw that puppet in a movie today, it would stand out to me as a puppet. I think the puppet was well-done (much better than the TPM puppet), and how it is lit really helped add to the realism, but sometimes it still clearly looks like a puppet to me, especially if I'm not engaged in the story (like, just walking in the room). The CGI-Yoda, especially the one in ROTS, really looks realistic to me. It really amazes me how realistic Yoda's skin looks in some of the close shots of his head. It looks like I could really reach out and feel the texture of his skin.

 

If true were subject to gradation, this would be very true, at least in accordance with my opinion.

 

In character? I really don't see any difference. Yoda's speeches in the OT are confirmed by his actions in the PT.

As far as looks? PT all the way! Sorry but to me, a puppet is a puppet, and is not even remotely believable or realistic. It may be 'real' in production sense, but it is not in viewer sense.
Whereas the PT Yoda looks like a living breathing character. Something I could totally believe I could meet in a GFFA. I may have said something about this before

 

For his own gain? It's the senate that is giving him those powers, and you can't judge the Jedi based on that argument when only the audience knows that.

Then, using your own argument, it could be Padmé. After all, she was a victim making a plea in the senate to make a vote of no confidence.

My point is that your argument of "just because Palpatine was elected chancellor during the return of the Sith the Jedi should be suspicious of him" doesn't hold any ground.

 

How do you know that Yoda's brief suspicions about Palpatine lasted long after that moment inside the latter's office in AOTC?

 

I thought that was for something else. Like why would Palpatine want Padme away from the Capital before the vote on no military?

 

OT Yoda all the way. Felt real, alive. Yoda was a fully believable character in the OT. Neither the puppet or CGI versions managed that, imo (and that isn't simply the fault of CGI in the latter case because Watto was...outstanding in those terms.)

Plus that silly lightsabre style..eeurgh. Laughable. Risible.

 

The Senate is a large body of government, that much is true. But there appear to be senators who have a higher rank than others, which is evident in those who were present when Palpatine was rescued and when the Clone Army is sent out to war. The Jedi Council don't suspect Palpatine sooner, because they cannot bring themselves to think that a Sith Lord would get all the way up there without their knowing it. At best they would believe that if Dooku was telling the truth, that Darth Sidious had to be controlling a high ranking senator, like Ora Free Taa and in "Labyrinth Of Evil", they think it could be Mas Amedda.

 

I thought this was a discussion about which type of Yoda one prefers, not another loony prequel bashing haven.

 

PT Yoda cause he had more screen time

 

It seems most people are expressing their opinion about the character of Yoda. I'm going to address the "appearance" of Yoda in OT and PT.​

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First of all, the Episode I puppet was atrocious. They have sense replaced it with the CGI, and that's where the problem is.​

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Let me be clear: Puppet or CGI characters, I don't prefer one over another. It would have been almost impossible to have Watto as a puppet, and he still looks awesomely realistic.​

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However, I do think it should be consistent. We had already seen Yoda as a puppet, and even though he looked like one, I don't remember ever questioning his realism. No, his mouth didn't move quiet right, but that's the way he had always been, so we didn't care.​

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Then the Episode I puppet looked very different from the Yoda we knew. He's something like 35 years younger, but out of a 900 year lifespan that doesn't amount to much. I don't know why they didn't use a replica of the same puppet from the OT, but I think they should have. Having Yoda "wrong" really bothered me (and I'm on record as a TPM lover).​

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Then comes AOTC, and the CGI Yoda. Here's the problem. They tried to make him "better". If this would have been the first time we saw Yoda, it would have been perfectly fine to me. BUT, we've known Yoda for a long time. His mouth isn't supposed to move to like that. His face isn't supposed to move like that. So, should they have used a puppet? No, the story prohibits the use of a puppet. BUT, they couldn't have CGI'ed the OT puppet, or even the TPM puppet! They could have made his face and mouth move the way it always had. There was no need to make him more realistic in my opinion. In fact, having Yoda's lips move to pronounce words was unrealistic for me. CGI him and have him fight, that's cool, but give him the same appearance or my brain is bothered by it. What's the in-universe explanation for why he lost facial and lip gesticulation after moving to Dagobah? (rhetorical question: please do not answer!)​

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I think everything I've expressed here is opinion. If I've made a factual error, please let me know. But lets be real: no one is going to change anyone's opinion on this. Express yours, but don't try to alter others.​

 

Discussing preference invites comparison by its very nature.

If you watch TESB with director's commentary Kershner goes into the way that Yoda was filmed and lit a little bit - they never left the camera on the puppet too long, preferring to cut away halfway through sentences to get Luke's reaction to what was said, rather than just dumping the camera on Yoda the entire time to the extent that it became really obvious that it was puppet.

 

And yet, Yoda - like Mace before him - went ahead and attacked Palpatine in ROTS with very little evidence. Hmm.

 

By that point it didn't matter anymore. Yoda was going to stop Palpatine regardless of what would happen to the remaining Jedi.

 

Yoda was basically on a suicide mission.

 

The video recording of Anakin's conversation with Palpatine after massacring the Jedi Temple may count.