Full Series The Yoda Arc (6.10-6.13) Discussion Thread

Honestly? These past few episodes have started to make me doubt the intelligence of all the Jedi for not figuring out what the Sith were planning and who was pulling what strings. What exactly Yoda saw at the end when the scene was fading to light is probably open to different interpretations, but it looked to me like he was basically seeing the major events of ROTS and the OT, ending with his final convo with Luke and death right after. I feel that knowing a certain amount of things, even taking into account that the future is always in motion kind of ruins things, but you know. As far as references go however, I enjoyed it, just like I did his words to Obi-Wan and Anakin after his meditation, which was a call forward to his "old friends" line to Luke 20 some years later. I didn't personally like that we saw the Whills, I did again enjoy the call forward to Yoda's conversation with Luke.


Dark Lord Tarkas Oh yeah lol my bad. Point stands for Dooku however.

 

DarthJenari, I really got choked when Serenity said "there is another Skywalker" and you can hear a baby crying in the background and then Yoda reiterating the line in the future. It was well done IMO.

 

The part that got me was actually earlier when Anakin is walking up to Yoda and hear's Qui-Gon. Part of me's always felt that had Anakin had more time with him things would've turned out differently, and that Anakin respected and cared for him more than any other Jedi save possibly Obi-Wan.

The ending of Yoda's "tests" got me as well, where the last words are those he'll say to Luke over 20 years later as he dies. I agree it was well done.

 

A couple of things of note in this arc:

• Sifo-Dyas' look from the EU was retained; it's good to keep the little things like that and it's also a positive that his Asian appearance - all to few in the universe - is preserved.

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• Ki-Adi's death is even sadder now, if that was possible: I imagine his thoughts looking back at Bacara and the Marines on that bridge on Mygeeto would be like, "We have made a terrible mistake".

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This makes me wonder about Obi-Wan and Yoda's thoughts as they receive word of the acrocities commited by the Empire.

 

The juxtaposition of Yoda's personalised Jedi starfighter - the TIE-like eyeball cockpit that's even more obvious than the Eta-2, the Sithly red-on-black control surfaces based on those we see in Vader's TIE Advanced, the wing design resembling the TIE interceptor's, the ion engine scream we often hear - with the mystical realm he explores in it was actually sort of brilliant. As a "great warrior", Yoda sets out in a vehicle that's a hair's breath away from being a tool of Imperial terror. At the same time, this sinister looking proto-TIE is still just a tool that, in this case, helps carry Yoda through his spiritual enlightenment.

 

Just read the newest Filoni interview over at IGN. In it he says that Sifo never entirely fell to the dark side or became sith and that Dooku might have been on a quest to hunt down and destroy the sith lord when he was turned....he also says that he had a white board with the entire sequence of events plotted out...more clues....

 

So Yoda was just talking out his ass when he said "Always in motion is the Future." Seeing as he didn't do a goddamn thing to try and change the Jedi Order's fate even with a plethora of knowledge. However, I like to think that Ahsoka was butchered during Operation Knightfall.

The only episode I liked was the Syfo Diyas one, because it had pretty much nothing to do with the rest of this BS that was this arc.

I did like the reference to Knights of the Old Republic with the Kashyyyk Tarentatek story.

 

Yoda's visions in this arc show that the future is always in motion very well. He sees a bunch of seemingly impossible parallel futures, one of which happened to be true. That's not a plethora of knowledge, and if he were to take one literally and go to extremes to prevent it there was still a small chance he'd pick the right one.

 

I think they could have gone farther to show things that won't actually happen alongside Yoda's visions, but I bet Lucas said "Well, kids will be confused if they see (Padme wins a surf competition and Captain Typho breeds kittens and Luke becomes a gigolo or whatever), so don't stray too far!"

 

And that is why I dislike the concept of Fate. The Force is pretty much fate manifest, and it's always messing with people. I'm with Kreia. Kill the Force, kill fate, and give people free will to choose their own destinies.

 

I don't see how the Force is something that takes away free will. Anakin and everyone else made their own choices, the Force didn't choose it for them. At least that's how I see it.

 

They made their own choices, but the Force still made Anakin as the Chosen One, and his nightmares came true despite his attempts to avert them. Luke saw a vision of the future, and despite Yoda's warnings that they would lead to ruin, acted on them and suffered as a result. Even if Anakin fell to the dark side, the Force still twisted events in such a way that he fulfilled the prophecy in the end.

 

I think this gets more into theoretical physics than spiritual predestination. For instance, there's theory that a being who experiences reality in four dimensions would actually see all of time (and every possible timeline) delineated as clearly as we see colors; in essence, time is a complex sphere to us, but from a fourth-dimensional perspective, time is a flat circle (Rust Cohle, anyone?). I think it's safe to say that the Force is at least that complex, and that even if it's not treated as a conscious being, it can at least be interacted with on that level.

That said, the concept of destiny is an inherent part of the Campbellian blueprint Star Wars is built from, so it's sort of hard to get around that central conceit.

 

Just because it's a foundation of the series doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't like the concept of fate, which I why I find Kreia's actions to kill the Force so fascinating. And why I find it frustrating when the future is set in stone no matter what actions are taken.

 

Innnnnteresting. So this pretty much confirms that Sifo Dyas placed the original order for the clone army and was in league with Dooku in some way.

So I guess Silman really was just a crazy old man who had a conspiracy theory that was dangerously close to the truth. Dooku didn't steal Sifo Dyas' identity per se, but he did have a hand in twisting his old comrade's plans to suit his own ends…and then killed him before he got wise.

 

Fandom, everyone.

I'm just messin' and I hope you can safely understand why this sounds funny. It just seems a bit... masochistic.

Anyway, there's another way to see it if you want to. The idea of the Force being four-dimensional and holding secrets about every possible outcome is just one of many possibilities.

 

You should probably check out the Darth Plagueis novel. It has exactly what you seem to be looking for.

 

One thing I like about this show is that it shows degrees of Force power in subtle ways.

In the Lost One, we see Dooku Force choke two Pyke guards to death, with sone exertion on his face. In comparison to the silent, effortless way that Sidious choked the two Mandalorians in Lawless. It shows us that there is a vast difference in power between Dooku and his master.

Another example of subtle messages is when Savage Opress killed Adi Gallia, a Council member, and then was able to fight Sidious for a long time, and even managed to knock him off the palace balcony. Like the Posse, he died, but he put up a much better fight than Fisto, Kolar and Tiin.

Although Obi-Wan seems to have terrible luck against Dooku. Everytime they fight, Dooku defeats him easily. He would have been knocked off the platform, if Anakin hadn't saved him.

 

Contessa

Yes, I have it on my shelf, but with school work, I haven't had time to read it. I'm looking forward to it, since I heard from many it's a gem of a book.

 

Honestly, I always thought it was pretty obvious that Savage's duration against Sidious owed more to Palpatine's restraint and courting battle than to Savage's skills. In other words, if he went for the immediate kill against Savage as he did with Fisto, Tiin, and Kolar, I don't think Opress would have lasted 10 seconds.

Sidious's humiliation of Dooku notwithstanding, the Count came out looking totally boss in this episode: ragdolling Pyke security with impunity and fending off Anakin and Obi-Wan simultaneously. The old boy's still got it.

Though I confess to being annoyed that the power level fluctuates so dramatically with Dooku and Anakin.

 

Personally, I don't like to think of characters as whiffing fights unless there's a very clear, compelling plot reason to believe they did. I think it was a combination of Maul helping Savage out in the battle, Maul having trained Savage in the Sith arts, and Savage just being this big, hulking, unnatural monstrosity whose power in the Force is way greater than it rightfully should be. Savage is basically Starkiller, but the difference is he was made that way artificially, with Nightsister magic. You might ask why all darksiders don't seek out this method of gaining power, but I think there's a price to it that even the Sith aren't willing to pay. Savage basically suffered a death of the self when he was transformed, and that's something I don't think Sith are too keen on experiencing.

 

Well, I like to think that if Sidious really felt threatened, he would have just crushed Maul and Savage when he had them helplessly pinned against the windows. Between that and all the laughs, it seemed like he was pulling his punches for the sake of courting battle. His was not the attitude of a man who appeared to be in legitimate danger.