ST Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

Yeah a little mystery would be excellent. Like the Jedi keep popping up, saving the day, and then disappearing again. No one knows how many their even are, where they're located, or when they're show up again.

 

"You know, like Caine in Kung Fu."

 

"You'll be a bum, Mace."

 

Except they didn't wander around solving peoples problems and imposing their vision of law and Justice. And there was only 9 of them.

A nomadic, group of super powered people imposing their values on people is a horrible idea. It simply causes too many issues and raises too many questions. Just look at how diverse Humans on Earth are in their values, idea's of justice, whats right and wrong etc... Hell, just look at the United States, people there can't even all agree if its moral to give people food stamps or not. Can you imagine how ineffective and hated a group of humans, taken from all countries, religions and cultures on the planet, would be at just wandering around telling people what to do, solving problems for them etc....? Never mind if they had super powers to enforce/impose their decisions? Now blow that up to include thousands of planets and hundreds of species.

 

How does being a huge organization help them with this problem? Some people won't like the Jedi, no matter how they organize themselves.

 

I think that's where the idea of autonous Jedi came from. The OT made many expect the prequel Jedi to be far more autonomus than they turned out to be.

 

They weren't wandering around being do gooders either.

 

Yeah, but there wasn't exactly much of anyone to tell them what to do or to whack them on the head if they didn't.

 

I'm not saying whether or not I like the idea, but in fairness, if there were supposedly 10,000 Jedi in the PT era out of the whole galactic population, that probably isn't too far off from the ratio of nine wizards in Middle Earth.

 

The same reason we have a police force instead of armed men who wander around doing their thing.

Having them be centerilized, with a ruling body, rules they have to follow etc... keep them in check. Means they are watched, tabs are kept on them. They are sent offical matters/missions of the Order and/or Government etc...

 

Even if it is the same ratio, the the Wizards don't wander around acting as a kind of unsupervised police force.

 

I agree. Just making the point, but ultimately I think I agree with you that they should be centralized. Maybe the compromise would be for their base of operations to be away from the galactic capital, although I do see merits and dangers in both cases.

 

The police forces aren't liked by everyone either. The republic probably wasn't liked by everyone as well. They certainly also imposed their will and forced their philosophy on others just like wandering Jedi would. When the separatists tried to leave the republic, the republic responded with military aggression.

Tabs are kept on them? Well, by whom? It's not like the republic officials are without bias here, seeing as the Jedi were basically a task force of the very senators who were ordering the "tabs keeping".

 

But a police officer (who is genreally from the same area and culture you're from) can't just decide to settle your dispute based on HIS view of justice or right and wrong, there are laws and rules they have to follow. I don't think you, or anyone, would like it if they could do what they felt was right. And if you start introducing people from vastly different religions, cultures, backgrounds etc.... the problem gets infinately worse. You probably wouldn'tlike the system if you need help because your boss isn't treating you correctly at work, and the office that shows up is from a culture that ok is slavery is it?

You don't Yoda, Mace and the rest of the council have a good handle onwhat the Jedi are doing? That there aren't other levels of Jedi that know what others are doing etc...? For example. Obi-wan probably knew what Anakin was doing any/every given day, and the council knew he did, so they could know what Anakin was doing any time they wanted/needed.

And Watch Attack of the Clones again, the Seperatists were the ones who fired the first shots, were building up an army etc...

 

Centralizing the Jedi is the problem. Their values are not always the same values as the Republic's.

Their main value should be focusing on the will of the Living Force. One could argue that's the only centralization a Jedi needs.

 

We don't know that independent Jedi would "act as a kind of unsupervised police force" either.

 

Doesn't that depend on the situation? If this is a police officer of a terrible dictatorship and he choses to not throw me in prison over a small crime then yes, I would prefer his view of justice and right or wrong over that of the government.

The republic was fairly corrupt. I don't know if I would trust them. Probably not much.

Governments aren't always more right than individuals.

Based on the PT ... not really.

Not a military attack, not a direct declaration of war like the republic did with sending in its clones.

 

No they didn't, they acted on the Republics authority.

As soon as they involved with helping people, thats what they are doing.

Thats the point, thats why police officers aren't allowed to have their own point of view, but not everyone agrees. The person you wrong in that society wouldn't be too happy that you didn't end up in jail. So each culture/society has rules that everyone knows and can find.

Telly ou what, never time you get into an argument with your wife or girlfriend or kid or parents (whatever) call me, I'll come over with a gun (or whatever weapon trumps what you have) and decide who's right, who's wrong, and then leave. Thats basically what you're suggesting the Jedi become. A wandering group of people just doing whatever they want. Hell, didn't LUke have a problem when Kyp did this in New Jedi Order with his Avenger Squadron?

The problem is whenever people talk about something like this, they invision the good guys doing what they (the person talking/imagining it) would/do deem right or moral. Unforutnately if you implement it that isn't how its going to work, and even if it did, a very small number of people would agree with it.

I think you need to watch the PT again. And really, trying to kill a fwe hundred Republic subjects after a massive build up military forces isn't an act of war?

 

Is it right to be thrown into jail for not bowing before the picture of Kim jong il? Extreme example, I know. But sometimes the rules aren't enforced by society but only by its rulers who suppress the populace. Like ... the empire in the original Star Wars.
Point is, I don't know why the Jedi being organized into a council would make the morally superior compared to the wandering nomads Jedi.

Building a massive army or defending yourself from attack isn't an act of war. Nothing the seps did until the horde of Jedi arrived was even close to an declaration of war.

 

In fact, Lucas likened them to both the Samurai, the Knights of the Round table and the late 20th century law enforcement in the US.

 

I think its funny how so many who discount EU but some of the ideas they come up with some what have come out in EU. I have liked what most of EU did after ROTJ where Luke went out and studied everything lightside and darkside of the force. He brings back the Jedi Order and has new rules that are not as strict as the PT order. Jedi can get married have families and yes have rules but Luke understands not everyone is perfect. 30 years later in EU Luke and Jedi Order do have trouble with those in the Republic who don't like the Jedi especially remnants of the empire. I like how the EU did the New Jedi Order it makes sense its not perfect but Luke the Grand Master is great and should be fun to see in VII if JJ does him right.

 

If I see somebody drowning and I save the person, am I acting as a police officer?