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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

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  1. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    Star Wars and Star Trek are very different franchises and this includes the villains who appear in them. I'm not worried in the slightest.
     
  2. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
    IMO Bana's villain wasn't terrible, he did a decent job. Cumberbatch also performed his role pretty well. I think Abrams, if nothing else gets good performances out of his actors. Great quality to have as a director.
     
  3. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 6, 2013
    My concern is that, the Star Trek films, Classic, Next Generation and Reboot, have never had an overarching villain like Star Wars has. That is, a villain that lasts more than one movie. My concern is Abrams' ability to create a film that is at the same time both self contained and open ended. It's one thing for the good guys to defeat A bad guy by the end of the movie, but by the end, there still has to be that possibility of more danger further down the road.
     
  4. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
    The ST films didn't have an ongoing villain by choice, not because they couldn't. JJ & Kasdan know going in that Ep7 is the first film in a trilogy. A trilogy is different to the next film in an indefinite series of films like the ST or Bond films. Ep7 will be the first act in a 3 part story.
     
  5. LunarMoth

    LunarMoth Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2012
    And the trilogy is the third act in a trilogy of trilogies.
     
  6. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
    And? Are you leading into the old "Ep7 must have an established villain" argument? Is that Plagueis I see approaching on the horizon? ;)
     
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  7. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    [face_laugh] No, it's some high quality trolling! :p
     
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  8. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 6, 2013
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
    What does Gary Busey have to do with the price of moisture on Tatooine?
     
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  10. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 6, 2013
    Gary Busey being the baddie in Episode VII makes as much sense as the idea that there MUST be an established villain in Episode VII/ST and as much sense as Darth Plagueis being that established villain. I'm not expecting any of them, but I wouldn't be opposed or surprised to see any of them.
     
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  11. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
    Wouldn't be surprised to see Gary Busey as the villain!? What would surprise you then I wonder? What if the Ghostbusters came through a wormhole & battled ghost Palpatine? :p
     
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  12. RobShanti

    RobShanti Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 6, 2009
    That would surprise me, what with Sigourney Weaver as the Gatekeeper.
     
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  13. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 6, 2013
    Ok, now that would surprise me.
     
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  14. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
    "Is this true?"
    Venkman: "Yes it's true...this Sith Lord has no **** "
     
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  15. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 3, 2012
    Outside of Khan all of the villains in Star Trek have kinda sucked. I'm sure Abrams knows Star Wars is nothing without a great villain...at least I that's what I hope.
     
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  16. LunarMoth

    LunarMoth Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2012
    You can take it as you like I suppose, but I'm not sure how you can discuss the idea of understanding that JJ and company realize that Ep VII is the first part of a three part story, that is in and of itself the third part of a larger story.

    The PT and the OT are a continuous story, and there is no reason to think the ST will be anything other than a continuation of that. As far as the villain goes, IF that means Plagueis, fine. If not, that's fine too, but you can't ignore the structure of the story in terms of being told in three trilogies and still have an intelligent conversation.

    So.....

    Am I leading into the old "Ep7 must have an established villain" argument?

    No.

    I am leading into the old "Because this trilogy in a continuation, the villain is going to connect to the PT and the OT". Regardless of who it is.

    Plagueis accomplishes this better than anything we know of so far, but is not the only possibility becasue we don't know anything otherwise.

    Again, Plagueis or not, the villain (the main ST villain) is going to connect to the rest of the story. I believe that the Skywalker bloodline is going to be the focus of the story in terms of the transformation of the series. The OT made Star Wars about Luke. With the PT, Star Wars became about Anakin. With the ST Star Wars will, IMO, become about the Skywalkers as a whole, and they will be the focus of the villain.
     
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  17. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
    Hey that's kind of harsh. The Voyage Home had....Seaworld & anonymous Japanese whalers ;)
     
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  18. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

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    Jun 8, 2002
    That reminds me...If droids were used as the foot soldiers in the PT, and storm troopers in the OT, then what will the new baddies use this time?
     
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  19. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
    I hear you. In an ideal world where GL always planned to make the ST he would have no doubt structured things differently so that each trilogy was an act within a big 3 part story. This structure would have probably been applicable to the villains too. That's the difference in the analogy of the 3 part structure of the ST compared to the Saga. JJ & co know that there will be 3 episodes while they write Ep7. During RotJ & the PT GL assumed that there would not be a 3rd trilogy. As we know, in RotJ he killed off the bad guys & wrapped up the story pretty neatly.

    The ST creators can only deal with the reality. This includes the fact that the prior villains are dead. Yes this is fantasy so there are ways to resurrect these dead villains, but hopefully they will just come up with the best villain rather than wheel out an old one just for the sake of villain continuity. Yourself & some others think Plagueis gives the best of both worlds in this regard. That's fair enough. We'll see.
     
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  20. Mystery Roach

    Mystery Roach Chosen One star 4

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    Mar 10, 2004
    Yeah the problem with that is that Lucas was still talking about the ST in 1983 when ROTJ was released.
     
  21. RobShanti

    RobShanti Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 6, 2009
    Clones?
     
  22. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    About the villains of Trek 09 and Into Darkness, keep in mind who wrote the screenplays for those movies.
     
  23. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
    As "maybe" doing it in 30 or so years & speculating on what that might include. Circa 1980 he planned to continue straight into Ep's 7-9. If he had he wouldn't have wrapped things up the way he did in RotJ.

    Point is he concluded RotJ in such a way that if he never made another episode we got a definitive & satisfying conclusion.
     
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  24. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    There's only one way to give a more definitive ending than ROTJ did and that's the destruction of the dark side itself. If you just kill off Plagueis at the end of IX, how do you know Tenebrous won't show up in X, XI, and XII?
     
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  25. LunarMoth

    LunarMoth Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2012
    Right, so if you look at the idea that the 6 existing parts were created with no intentions for a 3rd trilogy, you have to assume that when GL did decide to created an ST that he looked at what he had and created a way to continue.

    The reality that the ST team has to deal with is the story they were given. Lucas wrote the treatments for these films, and I'm sure they included the villain and how he/she connects the to the previous installments. I'm sure JJ and company will change some things around, but I'm also certain that the core elements will remain true to GL's vision. Lucas is still involved with this, and likely more than we know. He is also respected by everyone involved.
     
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