Amph A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread

Oh man... some of the tweets from here are gold.

"You could count the people who didn't want Joffrey dead on Jaime's right hand."

Just watched Game of Thrones and now I'm in a GREAT mood. Who wants shots?!?!? (from Anna Kendrick!)

You're welcome. (GRRM)

 

See this is why I LOVE Anna Kendrick.

 

I had saved this quote from my kindle, but I think there's a lot of interesting stuff happening just on this page...Joff killing cats, getting abused by his "father", and even Tyrion getting props from Stannis. Anyway, I put it in the spoiler tag, just so it isn't taking up the whole page:

Spoiler

 

Oberyn continues to be overplayed. "HEY TYWIN I HATE LANNISTERS I WANT TO KILL YOU DID I MENTION I WANT TO MURDER YOU HEY TYWIN I'M GONNA STAB YOUR FAMILY."

 

I thought Oberyn's jab at Tywin was great until he overplayed it with the comment about Myrcella.

Overall I thought the episode was tremendous except for the Stannis part. The last 15 minutes made up for it quite well, though. I wonder if non-book readers noticed the stone missing from Sansa's necklace after the QoT came over.

 

So, there's no way to say this without sounding like a complete perv and I realize that -- but Maisie Williams seems to be, uh, developing well beyond what her age is supposed to be in character. If the show keeps going on, it'll be like poor Lacey Chabert on Party of Five and they don't have oversized sweaters in Westeros...

The reason I put this here is I know the ages are skewed in the show -- horribly in some cases (it puts basically all three middle children 1y apart each) -- but some of the primary training around her with the Faceless Men in Bravos involves her still being, y'know, waifish and super-young. That's... going to be interesting...

 

i don't think it will be a problem. the character who suffers the most from the aging up imo is sansa, who is far more sympathetic when she's supposed to be 11 or 12. but arya's character is maybe a little more believable if she's a bit older. it's been a while since i've read so i'm not sure which parts you're referring to that she would need to be super-young for but i'm sure they'll find a way to work around it.

anyway, the shae stuff really annoyed me. she's one of those characters that i love to hate and i don't like her being made the victim.

 

Yeah, they aged up everyone like 3-5 years -- Sansa from 11 to 15, Arya from 9 to 14... it makes stuff not work out quite as well...

And I'm assuming the Shae thing is a misdirect and she'll be back for the trial...

 

i'm sure she will, but now she has justification for betraying tyrion. it's annoying.

 

I'll see how they handle it before deciding how well or not it will work. I actually think Sansa's story in the Eyrie might work better with her older, though I'm wondering if they're going to keep the kid who originally played Robert/Robin around. Be a bit awkward if they have the same actor trying to nurse Sansa when he's hitting his teens.

Not sure I agree here, seeing as he basically told Tyrion to his face in his first scene in the book why he was there, prompting Tyrion to point out how unlikely that goal would be with only 300 men in his retinue.

 

Or because he tried to sue for peace, like he did in the books (or maybe it was Alester).
Either way, it was stupid; Stannis wouldn't go so far as to kill someone because they didn't remove their religious totems: he doesn't believe in any of the gods.

 

Some thoughts...

I am so very very very interested in Bran's tree visions. Again we see the Iron Throne room abandoned and wrecked and open to the elements and we see dragon wings over KL. I am very interested in where that's going.

I'm probably going to get railed for this but I can finally see what they mean by season 4 is bringing people back together. Roose is referencing Jon Snow, we are getting Bran's visions...everything seems to be cohesive...and it should as they know how it ends. As a long time reader this is exciting because I can finally kind of vaguely see the end to this saga on TV and that makes me excited. I can't wait what they have in store for us and if the empty Throne Room and dragons over KL is any indication, it's gonna be a great ride.

 

... except with what they are showing us I have zero indication that the books will end in the same way, with so many things being changed...

 

Based on what Olenna said to Tywin last night, I don't think we have to worry about that. "Why don't you try to enjoy something before you die. You might find it suits you."

Amazing.

 

Ya, I agree with B -- I can't imagine them changing one of the pivotal moments of the series.

I don't think Tyrion kills Tywin without the lead-up.

 

Just finished watching it. Well that was amazing.

I loved Oberyn and Tywin, that was spectacular...they got Oberyn damn right in my opinion. Loved Ramsay and Roose as well as Fat Walda, just like I pictured her.

 

I actually feel like they've dealt with Arya's maturation quite well. In the novels, more of her protection came from the fact that she was pre-pubescent and not easily recognized as female. Since that's obviously not an option, the show has instead chosen to make repeated, direct references to her risk of wartime sexual assault. However, they've contrived fairly plausible reasons why she never actually gets attacked (eg the Hound claiming her). This is an example of a thoughtful, necessary change to the original story, as opposed to basically everything else the HBO team has done.

 

My wife and I are making our way through season 3 at the moment, and we just watched The Climb -- where Tywin and Olenna have their first on-screen conversation, talking about "sword swallowers" and threatening to appoint Loras Tyrell to the Kingsguard.

Best scene of the show. The whole climbing the wall sequence was tepid by comparison. Diana Rigg and Charles Dance were clearly having the time of their lives with this scene. You really get the feeling that these two took to heart the idea that both of them are patriarchs/matriarchs of families filled with children who don't come anywhere near their standards, and the idea they actually have a lot in common if not a lot to like about each other. The highlight of season 3 so far for me. Close seconds are Littlefinger's "chaos is a ladder" speech and Jaime's confession about Aerys in the baths with Brienne.

 

I'm not saying that it is the case, but I don't recall anything that would contradict it. It's never made clear just when Shae turned on Tyrion, although the fact that she turns up in Tywin's bedchamber seemed to suggest a background beyond a bit of recent opportunism. Perhaps she was Tywin's favourite whore, and that's why he picked her for the mission of spying on Tyrion - although rather perverse, it's a bit more convincing than Tywin suddenly taking a liking to a whore who he knows has been with Tyrion.

I just felt that if Shae is 'pushed' towards betrayal by Tyrion's own actions, the outcome is tragic but somewhat predictable, whereas if she's been informing on him from the start, their whole affair (which seems to be Tyrion desperately trying to regain what he once had with Tysha) becomes a cruel farce, and that somehow fits better with Martin's bleak, grim vision.

 

I think the issue of "working" for the Lannisters is sort of an aside. The devastating thing there was not so much that she betrayed Tyrion, but that there was nothing to betray in the first place. She was always pretty clear about the fact that she was prostitute providing a service in exchange for money. Tyrion chose to mistake that for love, even when she gave him no real reason to.

 

I think the book was more ambiguous than the show about her feelings but it definitely seemed like it was presenting as "more than money" to her when I think, in the end, his first wife was the actual non-whore and his second whore whom he loved actually WAS a whore...