Amph "On your left." - Captain America (Brave New World)

My, you North Americans sure seem to be embarrassed of your forefathers' flag waving jingoism. Where is your patriotic spirit?? The Founding Fathers, Uncle Sam and the good Captain himself would not be proud.

 

Travel to the deep south sometime.

 

Dead, like my marriage rights in most states. [/Disgruntled opinion]

 

Well, get a few million guys together and arm a revolution, or something. "We the people, etc. etc."

 

I meant that in total, Natasha's cover identity was a brilliant move to get past Tony's defenses. However, I do think that moment in Hogan's car pushed it a little bit.

Sadly, many Americans now associate patriotism with shame, because they've bought into the lie that other countries' opinions about the USA matter more than their own. News flash, folks: if you're not a legal citizen of this country, I don't care what your viewpoint is. Believe what you want, but if you attack the land I call home, it won't be pretty.

 

snigger

 

Uh-huh.

 

At least they know how to use the damned "edit" button, unlike you. Seriously.

 

It's been clear for years 'murica don't give no damns about what other nations think.

 

I use the Edit button to correct spelling mistakes, but that's about it.

 

Use it for more than that. Consider this a warning.

 

What did I do wrong?

 

You shouldn't really be posting again after you've already posted, if you have something to add the add it, don't do another post.


Etiquette and all that

 

Double posting within the edit time frame is a no-no.

Anyway, back on the topic of patriotism, most of my favorite takes on Captain America have portrayed him as someone who loves the ideals America is supposed to represent, but realizes that sometimes it fails in its endeavors and sometimes that failure is an unforgivable betrayal. For me, Cap is this:

But it takes a willingness to be controversial to broach that kind of attitude, which you're really just not going to get in a movie with a budget this big. Too much unnecessary audience alienation.

Edit: And yes, I am aware those panels are from an issue of What If, because I know what you guys are going to jump on.

 

A lot of guys would do what Happy did. Hell, it happens in taxi cabs in New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, Las Vegas and some of the other major cities. People change clothes, have sex, flash the driver more often than you think. They also due drugs so there's that. But speaking of changing clothes and peeping, I direct you to this commercial.

 

This reminds me of what a "source" (sounds like an exec or someone parroting one) said yesterday in a Hollywood Reporter article about David Fincher leaving the (non-Ashton Kutcher) Steve Jobs biopic.

A source with ties to the studio says Fincher potentially could re-enter negotiations but that the fee he is seeking is “ridiculous,” adding, “You’re not doing Transformers here. You’re not doing Captain America. This is quality — it’s not screaming commerciality..."

My response: ugh.

 

I'd much prefer the flag waving jingoism to the current faux-intellecutal cynicism, if only for a change of pace. Case if USA in WWII=bad... then honestly there are no good people in history or good sides in history and humanity is one giant cesspool of filth and we should all await the sweet embrace of death.

 

Yes, it's important to whitewash everything and slander the opposition for the sake of preserving some vague sense of universal optimism. It's not "faux-intellectual cynicism" to acknowledge that the real world is more morally complex than our Saturday morning cartoons, though, as I've said several times, asking for that kind of acknowledgement from an action movie is something of a silly order.

 

Because slandering the Nazis was bad...

Okay no more whitewashing history, George Washington was an evil slave holder. Martin Luther King Jr was an evil adulterer. Anyone in history before 1900 was probably an evil racist and/or homophobe. Etc...

Yeah that's much better. Can't wait till history classes look at you and me and have teachers explain how 'evil' you and I were.

 

I was referring to your pronouncement that anything resembling a more nuanced approach to history was "faux-intellectual cynicism."

Quit jumping to the slippery slope. No matter what morality system you subscribe to - good people can hold some bad ideologies and do bad things. Bad people can hold some good ideologies and do good things. Any history class that would ignore that basic fact of human nature is not worth taking.

 

I wasn't saying anyone was "evil." I was saying that, in addition to everything in history being infinitely more morally complex than conventional wisdom likes to pretend (as Ramza said), the entities that we think of as nation-states act primarily out of their own (often short-sighted) self-interest rather than in the service of some ill-defined Righteous Cause.

 

Look I get the fact history is complicated and in most cases it's dark grey at best. There isn't one historical figure or any future historical figures that will probably be better than a light grey. I get all that and portraying that fact is fine. In that Band of Brothers miniseries they showed American soldiers executing German POW's, that's fine.

What I don't like is some knee jerk 'Insinuating Americans were the good guys in WWII?!!!!! RUBBISH!!!!!!!!' because big picture we were. Whatever our methods or motivations... end result we put an end to a lot of monstrous, inhuman, and down right sickening things and freed a lot of people from tyranny. Did we do a lot of horrible things? Yeah(no where near as much as our enemies) we did. That should be taught and that should not be forgotten. But acting like that somehow tarnishes the entirety of our involvement or makes us no different from out enemies is not something I support.

 

See, that opinion I can get, but that is so not how your first post read.