PT Was Anakin insane by the time he fought Obi-Wan

In another thread Rush argued that Chewbacca choking Lando for a bit in ESB was as bad as what Anakin did, so I wouldn't even bother with the argument.

 

Chewbacca was trying to commit murder. You know . . . murder? And I only pointed out that he was also committing an act of evil. I didn't realize that attempted strangulation in a fit of rage was not considered evil or a crime by so many of you . . . especially when the perputrator is a "good guy". Good grief.

And by the way, the movies do hint that Yoda possessed flaws. I guess you didn't notice. Or perhaps you didn't want to. Who knows?


Then again, I keep forgetting that many STAR WARS fans seem willing to turn a blind eye to the flaws and/or crimes of those characters that are not deemed "villains" . . . and at the same time, pretend that they do acknowledge those flaws/crimes.

 

What you see as flaws equal to Anakin's flaws are in many of our minds lesser flaws, not non-existent.

 

I notice what Rush does and what Val says. Scaling is a *huge* justification around here.

 

What is "scaling"?

 

Good guys commit murder all the time and it isn't wrong. The only time it is is when said good guy has a moral code that says, I don't kill.

What flaws did Yoda have other than arrogance in thinking that he could stop Palpatine?

When Transformers of different sizes are drawn out of proportion.

Actually, it refers to that all things must be equal. An all or nothing approach.

 

And you keep repeating this, but you never back it up with evidence. I guess you can't. Or perhaps you don't want to. Who knows?

 

People don't have to present evidence for every perception. It'd help if so many here weren't so openly hostile to different views from the supposed 'mainstream' claims.

 

"The movies do hint that Yoda possessed flaws".

"I want to believe that Yoda possessed flaws".

One of these statements implies that it is supported by evidence in the films. People don't have to do anything, just like people don't have to take baseless claims seriously.

 

Anakin wasn't insane in my opinion. He made a choice. A choice heavily influenced by trauma and emotional complications, but a choice nonetheless. He wasn't out of his mind when he joined Palpatine. And he stood by the man's side for over twenty years. Mentally unwell? Sure. But insane to the degree where he's not responsible for his actions? Nope.

 

I'm not sure I understand you, Cushing's Admirer - are "we" the hostile ones because we don't accept DRush's views? It's rather tiring being on the receiving end of his "aha's, I got you" and strawman accusations (especially when he ignores our reasoning rather than merely disagreeing with it). He denies we see any flaws in any of the 'good guys" because the flaws we openly agree with - well, we don't condemn that character to eternal damnation, hence, we must think they are all "perfect" and can't accept "his" reality.

Are we now to merely nod our head and not express our views in order to avoid "tromping" on another's right of expression?

Forget it - ain't gonna happen.

I will try to remain respectful of any views that are respectful of mine, and when not, continue to bite my tongue more often than not.

 

Val: Hostility is on both sides. It is my experience that several here find any difference of views invalid or attack-worthy. How is that conducive to discussion and fun? Likewise I strongly dislike the term 'straw man'. People use it as an attempt to say the other person's views are invalid and they aren't listening. It's happened to me several times. Just because someone doesn't find something in alignment with their own views doesn't mean the expressed views aren't valid to the one that has expressed them. Now Rush and I have had many differences of view ourselves but it does seem some really are giving him a hard time here.

 

I don't think Anakin is anywhere near a kind of insanity that would make him less than fully responsible for his choices. If he thought the younglings or Mace were battle droids, I would agree he was crazy and should not be held fully responsible. He's in a terrible situation, but he knows what he's doing. Being angry or traitorous isn't insanity.

 

Well, of course Yoda possessed flaws. The question is are these flaws great enough to condemn Yoda as a person? I'd say no. Yoda made mistakes, and there were consequences for those mistakes. To also heap scorn on him for being a naturally flawed being seems like overkill.

 

Yeah. You'd have to be insane to kill everyone you know and raze your home.

 

Really?? And I thought true love prevented you from hurting the person you loved. He broke Padme's heart by choking her. She could have survived you know, but she died of heartbreak. And Anakin was insane enough to choke her to unconsciousness.

 

True that

 

I marvel at the fact that there's confusion about Anakin's turn. The movie basically spells it out for us.

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering"

"The fear of loss is a path to the Dark side."

Yoda flat-out tells us why Anakin turns -- he fears to lose Padmé. That Palpatine offers him the possibility of saving her life while ending a war and instituting an Empire just makes him able to rationalize his choice. To tell himself that it is for "the greater good." Anakin chokes Padmé precisely because his turn was never about his love for her. It was about him being afraid of losing her -- to death or to the Jedi's way of thinking. Which is why he screams "you turned her against me" at Obi-Wan.

It's not insanity -- it's selfishness which, at its core, is what evil is.

 

I would not say that Anakin was insane. I would say that he was obsessed. As Star Wars fans, I am sure that many of us can relate to the difference.

 

No not insane. The dark side consumed. him. When a good person suddenly does really bad things, it changes their psyche, makes them feel there's no going back.

 

Yet he knew that what he was doing was wrong, as he made very clear in the garage with Padme. If you're saying he was off his rocker as in he was emotionally unstable, then no duh. But he would be found culpable for his actions in any court of law--he wouldn't be able to successfully plead insanity, and I think that's the real question being asked by the thread.