ST Who's The Baddie?

I'm not saying I would be happy with it, or that you should be happy with it. Grammatically, least of all. But yes, I do think that is entirely within the scope of things that could happen. They paid $4 billion for the keys to this car, and they're going to drive it how they please. And if it's an ugly patch-job, it's an ugly patch-job.

 

"You're no match for him; he's a dark-side user Lord!"
"Chancellor Palpatine, dark-side user Lords are our speciality!"

 

Join me Obi-Wan & together we will destroy the Dark Side Force user guys!

 

They're certainly not going to lazily dress up a Sith in different clothes, have them act exactly the same, and call them something different, like Dith (that would be the worst possible scenario). Superficial changes to the Sith might make some happy here, but I hope they either A) bring the Sith back and add some more internal depth or difference or B) create a Dith that has more difference than just surface changes.

 

"I have just learned a terrible truth. I think Chancellor Palpatine is a dark side user Lord."
"... a dark side user Lord!?"
"Yes... the one we've been looking for..."
-
*Ignites lightsaber* "YOU'RE the dark side user Lord!"
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"Only a dark side user deals in absolutes."
-
Star Wars Episode III : Revenge of the Dark Side Users

... ok I'll stop now. lol

 

It doesn't matter if we haven't seen all darksiders die. The general movie audience doesn't watch TCW. They have no idea about Talzin and Ventress and whatever. On the other hand, they were led to believe that there only be two Sith and that all evil darksiders are Sith. You do the math.

Yea, there would be a lot "Where are the imperials? Damn, I was so hoping to see some Star Destroyers, just like in the old Star Wars." You are completely underestimating their popularity if you think nobody would miss them.

They do know one thing. That all the darksiders/evil force dudes are dead, destroyed in an epic move of Vader. They wouldn't want this superb happy ending (aka childhood memories for many) taken away from them. So yes, the difference needs explanation or at least it should be explained how the Sith could return.

 

When you think about it, Qui-Gon made a bit of an assumption. He should've said "my only conclusion is that it was a dude with a red lightsaber who can use the Dark Side"

 

Not crazy at all. Max has already lent his voice to a character who tried to do something quite similar to what you speak of:



He also has experience with resurrection:



All a little TOO perfect in my opinion... JJ is well aware of Max's resume.

 

Who says you need to see every single Sith die on screen?

 

And have Andy Serkis play his minion who has to steal Han and Leia's infant grandson for Plagueis to possess who then turns into Adam Driver. Yeah that could work. A little Harry Potter-ish, but it could happen.

 

Nope - the defeat of the Empire at the end of ROTJ is explicitly shown... The eradication of the Sith (or those who use the darkside) isn't. That's why there's always a get out clause for the Sith to come back e.g "Palpatine had a secret apprentice", Plagueis feigned his own death", "a Jedi goes renegade and discovers a Sith holocron" etc. etc. Whatever... Having the Empire back is just a regression and undermines the events of the OT. That's not to say they won't be back... who knows? But that would be cheap and derivative IMO.

 

I agree. I absolutely would prefer to not see the Empire in this movie in any way, shape, or form. Mentioned? Fine. But Star Destroyers being run by old, disgruntled Imperial officers looking to retake the galaxy 30 years later? No thanks. Let's move on to something new and something fresh that hasn't been done already.

 

What do we think about the New Republic using Star Destroyers, TIE fighters etc? The forerunners of those ships originated under the Old Republic. The Empire was established & inherited the Republic Fleet, & over the years made changes & built variations. If the Empire surrenders after Endor & the Alliance takes over it's not like they're going to gather the Imperial Fleet & destroy it. They would absorb it into their own defense force. Therefore we could see Luke in command of his own Star Destroyer, standing on the deck with hands held behind his back, staring out into space. That would be an interesting sight.

Either way I feel sure we're going to be seeing SD's & TIE's, whether under the command of an Imperial Remnant or the Republic itself. Maybe there will be updated versions too.

 

If the Remnant exists at all, it should simply be to show one final pocket of resistance that's about to be soundly wiped out. MVS might very well be that rumored Imperial Commander who has some kind of beef with the OT heroes, or at least he's the final Imperial standing. I can see opening E7 with the Republic/Jedi forces finding this final war criminal and soundly taking him and his crew down. But then that should be the end to any Imperial nostalgia IMO.

But I do think we need something like the Imperials for the ST. The question is, what? Some options:

1) Some other totalitarian regime is threatening the Republic. My first pick would be a resurgent Mandalorian army. Maybe the Empire repressed them to such a degree that they've decided to return to their warrior roots and view the Republic as the same or similar apparatus as the Empire (fairly or unfairly). Or someone brand new.

2) In some far flung region of space, far from the Core Worlds (the Unknown Regions?), an ancient Sith or Dith has been secretly building an Empire and is now ready to attack. Maybe Palpatine refers to this potential danger in Rebels in order to allude to the ST.

3) Alien invasion. Rakata-ish > Vong. Could also be alluded to in Rebels.

But if we get old Imperials for three straight films, that would be really uninspired. And hard to believe (why hasn't the Alliance and Jedi defeated these codgers yet?)

I'd be shocked if GL wrote a story treatment that included the Imperials as the main enemy again. At least in the PT he tried something new. He'll likely do something new again in the ST.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Republic had their own variations of Star Destroyers flying around.

 

I agree, no way should they be the main villains. I still think it's justified for them to have a supporting role though. I'll re post my earlier post to explain why these codgers would still be around:

A Remnant including a coalition of some Imperial Governors would be very interesting IMO. My thought is that the Alliance takes over & reestablishes a new Republic but the systems within this "Imperial Coalition" ask to run their own affairs & not join. Though the Alliance believes the request of these systems has been manipulated by the Imperials they feel that enforcing their will on them & going to war will only paint them in the same light as the Empire they've just replaced. It would also be a very hard fought & bloody war due to the resources of these former Imperials. The Imperial Coalition is therefore allowed to have their own "bloc" of the galaxy & an uneasy alliance (cold war) simmers away for the ensuing 30 years. I actually think this is a very realistic outcome to where things were left at the end of RotJ. I think that some Imperials would regroup & consolidate their strength in a corner of the galaxy. If they then flew the banner of peace I can't see how the Alliance with their ideals could justify going to war with them.

 

The happy ending will still be there Pevra, nothing will EVER change that - the ending of EPVI will ALWAYS be a happy one - regardless of what comes after. And if, as I and many others suspect, the Sith (or Dark Side User Lords ) will return I'm sure that will be explained within the story. But if the general movie going public require an explanation between Sith and Dark Side User Lords (that is brilliant - makes me chuckle every time) there are 3 movies in which to provide it.

And I'm not sure who StoneeRiver is but I thought I'd reply for him/her


I gotta say it again, Dark Side User Lord....

 

Please don't have the galaxy be united at this point. One more trilogy of the wild west with multiple groups fighting it out including the Empire. Save the unified galaxy for the end of the Saga.

 

If they tell us there has been 35 years of peace & good times, the celebration at the end of Jedi will be more than justified.

 

It is an interesting thing to note that in the SW movies there is another a theme about the good and bad guys.

In the PT - the Republic (good guys) have the power, they have control over many star systems and are this huge organization, with incredible resources and manpower.
The separatists (bad guys) are merely an organization of different planets who decide that they want to break off from the Republic and take over.
In the end, the Republic becomes the bad guys, the separatists are destroyed and a small resistance movement is created, the Rebellion.

In the OT - the Empire (bad guys) have the power, they have control over many star systems and are this huge organization, with incredible resources and manpower.
The Rebellion (good guys) are merely a resistance movement with limited resources, but strong determination who seek to overthrow the Emperor.
In the end, the Rebellion prevails and the Empire is defeated.

In the ST - perhaps each faction (good guys and bad guys) will start off on equal footing. The Republic trying to take over the Empire's star systems (which is no easy task), deal with the possible saboteurs from the Empire and have to install a stable leadership (which is also a difficult task). Despite the Empire being clearly evil, it is very likely that it has supporters across the galaxy, even on now-Republic worlds.
The Empire (or whatever they'll be called) will most likely still control a vast number of star systems and concentrate their forces to strike back at any moment.

It would be naive to think that an organization such as the GALACTIC Empire could be overthrown so easily. The scenes we got at the end of ROTJ were the result of the Emperor's defeat and not the defeat of the entire Empire.
The seat of power, Coruscant, is under Republic control again, sure, but that doesn't magically give them control over all of the Empire's forces and planets like in a video game.
The Rebels barely defeated a small part of the Emperor's forces (in space and on the ground) by using their entire combined forces. Part of those forces were lost during the Battle of Endor.
If for the Rebels one lost ship is a great loss, for the Empire is nothing. The Republic needs to recover more than the Empire does. At most, the Empire needs to establish new frontiers and choose a new ruling council or something.
For the Republic, the difficult part is just beginning.

How many Imperial ships were at Endor ? 30, 40 ? That can't be their entire fleet. You can't control such a vast area of space with 40 SDs. It's impossible.
And why would we assume that the Empire's generals and admirals would surrender immediately after the Emperor's defeat ?

 

In material terms, you're right. But the real problem is that the Empire has lost its Force users. They've had it. The moffs, admirals, governors, peculiar hat crew and so on may not understand why they're losing, but unless they can recruit new Sith, they're already dead.

 

If Luke Han and leia went through all that sh** in the OT to only be rewarded with having to fight 30-35 more years of civil war, I'll be furious.

 

Unless they're happy to control their own corner of the galaxy, separate from the Republic. Why would Luke & the Alliance hunt them down & try to destroy them? That's not their style.

Nah, there will have been an extended period of peace following RotJ. I'm sure the reason we're going back to the story 35 years later is that the peace is about to be broken.

the_sinister_hologram yes the Imperial Fleet still dwarfs the Alliance in strength but the Empire may have been brought down politically following Endor, as those celebrations hinted at.

 

I would also expect this.

 

I like that idea... It subverts the iconography as the prequels did. The New Republic reclaims those vehicles/designs. However, I get the feeling JJ wants relatively clear lines of demarcation e.g tie fighters = bad. X-Wings = good etc. I prefer it to be more blurred, but do I get/understand the argument for having clearly defined good guys and bad guys in the ST. Hence why imperials coming back is always a distinct possibility... no matter how much I may personally dislike the idea.