PT How have people who troll the prequels affected your love of the movies?

Totally agree. Like, for instance, when someone says "The Phantom Menace was the absolute worst movie in the entire existance of all time!", which I have heard people say, more than once... I look at them like they're crazy. Cause there're a LOT of movies they haven't seen, if they're making statements like that. lol

 

There are fewer things sadder in SW fandom than seeing a PT-gen fan retroactively hating the PT that he/she greatly enjoyed when they were younger. Ive seen a few like this online and it's very unfortunate that somebody would feel the need to reject their own childhood.

For me, I think the PT trolling has made me enjoy those movies even more, as it has led me to analyze them more deeply than I otherwise would. BUT it has had the unfortunate effect of tarnishing the OT for me - unnecessarily. I grew up on the OT and never really had any reason to explore their flaws (altho I was aware of them) until they were flung in my face as the epitome of cinematic greatness by anti-PT trolls. It's hard not to point out the OT's weaknesses when you are faced with such hypocritical arguments.

I think this is the most powerful impact of anti-PT trolling. Unfortunately, trolling actually does impact the choices Hollywood makes nowadays. I mean it's great for us all to say "don't let other people's hate change your enjoyment", but when trolling actually influences what is being produced, then it becomes a bit more difficult to remain unaffected.

 

Maybe they find that the PT doesn't hold up as much as when they first watched it? A complete about face is insane but I can see a mellowing of enthusiasm of something happening the older you get.

 

I'm very much like that with ROTJ. At ten, it was by far my favourite of the OT films. Now it's a fairly distant third. I still like it, and elements of it I still love, but these days different things appeal to me. It's just a case of changing taste over time and with age.

 

I went from absolute hate of TPM to a big PT fan, so it isn't a case of it "not holding up" to first impressions. But TPM doesn't equal the PT, nor does AoTC.
And I was an original OT-era fan (and still am a fan).

 

Well, I think there is a clear difference between a changing focus/opinion and a 360 degree turnaround from "love" to "hate". You can clearly see the difference. Whether it's a balanced and thought-out explanation for their changed evaluation of the films or a stereotypical, one-sided parroting und unsubstantial bashing. Sorry, when you tell me you loved them as a child and now hate them passionaltely (and that becomes obvious in your language), then I can say either speculate you've been replaced by a doppelgänger or can't take you seriously.

For instance, when someone enjoyed Jar Jar as a child and now doesn't love him as much because he's simply more interested in more "mature" characters, that's is only natural. However, when someone then moves on Jar Jar claiming was "the worst character ever" and holds absolutely "no" redeeming qualities, he's just contradicting himself. Same with statements about the acting: Surely, when you're younger you're less sensitive about such things. Yet, when someone then only starts claiming the PT's acting was nonstop "terrible" while the OT's nonstop "great", then it's just he opposite of a more adult view. An adult's view triumphs over a child's view simply with a more nuanced ability of being able to see things differentiated. Again, people who changed their opinion and then moved on saying things like that just contradict themselves and offer disproof of their "point".

So yeah, things change. Although, it's also obvious when change is a product of perceived semi-cultural pressure - artificial and forced.

 

That's not necessarily true, peoples views do change as they age. Hell I thought Star Trek 5 was a great movie when I first saw it as a teen. Sometimes with more wisdom and experience we revisit something from our childhood and find that it is not what we thought, its childish, or the message is flawed or the characters are shallow, whatever ( and I am not talking about Star Wars in particular here, FWIW I find Jar Jar a relatively interesting character, and my more mature self likes him more since although he is annoying he is brave, thoughtful and an innocent. Everything the Republic should fight to protect).

 

Hollywood likes money, simple as that. So at the end of the day, Jar Jar is fine what makes money works. ( that said Hollywood had little to do with how Lucas made his movies anyway) As to Disney, well same thing. No we will not see a Jar Jar movie but they will go for what they think sells. This is why I doubt that Daisy Whatshername will be the main protagonist or a jedi, Hollywood is reluctant to have a female protagonist generally. Point is its the bottom line thats important, thats why five gets you ten there will be a Boba Fett movie.

 

The OP mentioned the example of a fan who'd be 8 when TPM came out and is now 23 - well I am that fan to the T. In my teen years I tried to bandwagon onto the who prequel sucks train for whatever reason, you know how young people regurgitate others' opinions sometimes. But I never truly felt that way, I'd just make fun of the movies to fit in to what seemed to be the popular idea at the time. Of course I'm more grown up now, and I guess I'm what you'd call a saga fan. I love 'em all.

I do have a few prequel hater friends, and we have some running gags. If someone talks some smack about Jar Jar, I'm liable to say something like "Do you want to get shot right now?" - all in good fun of course.

 

Hedging your bets there, aren't you?

Hollywood is a commercially-driven enterprise. That means conservatism rules. It is just as likely -- if not a great deal more likely -- to exploit widespread satisfaction with the PT as a whole, than to focus on microscopic complaints or points of minor aesthetic contention.

Plus, as far as your cherry-picked ("Space Messiah") example goes, Hollywood has proven rather adept at re-using that trope over and over, in various forms, over the last ten-to-twenty years. Big business has not, does not, and will never care for trifling, parochial objections. I think you're looking at this from the perspective of a disgruntled fan, not a Hollywood bean-counter or bean-counter-pleasing producer or director.

 

It's possible. I've experienced this with other SW movies. ROTJ was my favorite SW movie when I was a kid. However, my opinion of the film has changed over the years . . . to the point that it's now my least favorite movie. I've also noticed that although I was able to spot the flaws in the PT movies from the moment I first saw them, I began noticing the flaws in the OT upon recent viewings. Even my views on both TPM and ANH had changed in the past two or three years. Whereas I used to view ANH as more favorable to me than TPM in the past; I now view TPM more favorable than ANH. Who knows how my views will change in the future?

The Hollywood industry has been re-using tropes over and over again since the beginning of its existence. Novels, plays and other entertainment forms are guilty of the same.

 

No, I know. But there are plenty of widespread contentions to draw from -- Anakin as "Space Messiah", or whatever, is just one of many; and arguably far from one of the main ones.

I also think it's a bit deluded to imagine inspiring the Hollywood machine to change course, since the notion seems to be predicated on the belief that petty fan annoyance is somehow a valid driver of artistic discourse. It's basically wanting the people in charge of Star Wars to be shallow and spineless and make things according to "mob" desires.

Yeah. I can't see how it stands out a great deal as something that the makers of the new films absolutely must renounce or avoid. The "messiah" element is a key part of the Star Wars saga, now -- and it cannot, and won't, be undone.

 

That is your opinion, I think the complete opposite.

 

Harry Potter was a franchise I had in mind, yeah. And now Star Wars is with Disney -- a company that specializes in stories with fantastic powers and origins.

A movie-maker is not a money-making business. Those entities should not be recklessly conflated.

Unless, again, we're talking Hollywood. Hollywood certainly looks, as one poster aptly put it earlier, at the bottom line and little else. And the PT has definitely strengthened the Star Wars brand. The sale to Disney couldn't have happened without the PT. So I'm not sure where that leaves the idea that "customer feedback" -- that is, fan-ranting about the PT -- is likely to have a big impact. It might, it might not. Don't much care for movie-making by committee, personally.

 

bad writing, bad direction, bad acting.

 

Artists might be looking to please people or make a viable product -- but they are ultimately trying to please themselves. Lucas struck out with a populist impulse, but he remains quite avant-garde in a lot of respects. In this way, what I'm saying is that it's a case of balance; but that the artist's tastes should ultimately determine the comportment of an art work, not the public's.

Well, I'm a little bit snobbish. On the other hand, ticket buyers clearly gave the prequel trilogy a big thumbs-up; without necessarily being hardcore fans. This is something a lot of people in certain circles seem to have trouble dealing with. So, I guess, what I'm saying is, there are opinions and there are opinions. Fans have become a little carried away over the years with the presumed privileging of their own views.

You're also talking like there's one mass lump of views shared by a coherent majority. And I don't think that's really correct. I mean, Star Wars, as a thing, existed before there were actually any fans, and the views of the fanbase today are varied. It depends which people you ask. These movies have touched people in different ways.

Okay, you've concatenated several things here that don't necessarily go together:

1) Artists -- most artists -- still want to be successful and not plunge themselves, or the people depending on them, into financial ruin. Being bound by inspiration doesn't mean not caring about sales.

2) When Lucas claimed not to care, it's the sort of thing that needs taking with a pinch of salt. He likely meant that he didn't feel obligated to worry overtly about some people being thrown over some of his choices. He knows, in making art, even popular art, you sort of have to go your own way ... or what's the point?

3) Lucas has always been pessimistic where profit margins are concerned. Perhaps it is a defence mechanism: a means of preparing himself for the worst. He has previously said that he follows his father and is quite conservative in some regards.

4) Being yelled out. This was after approximately one full decade of online/media-driven negativity and a tsunami of verbal abuse. He was basically called a no-good, greedy hack, over and over. And he put the question rhetorically: would YOU be willing to make more movies in the same series after that? Of course, his question also had a sandbagging element to it, as the sale to Disney, with accompanying announcement of the sequel trilogy, was completed the same year.

I don't go by labels -- not sure if there was an ugly insinuation there.

On the contrary, I go by form and content. The existing movies have satisfied me because of the mind behind them.

I am not inherently hostile to more Star Wars movies, but I do lament the lack of independent (and idiosyncratic) spirit that clearly went into the existing ones.

But only time will tell what we all will think of whatever Disney puts out.

 

anakinfansince1983 --you've had some of the most level-headed posts in this thread. I've really appreciated reading them Just wanted to say that….

Anyway, I think some people have this misperception when it comes to "OT fans" or "PT bashers" or whatever label you wanna throw on us this week. Just because we may find and criticize flaws in the PT, doesn't mean we're oblivious to the ones in the OT. It's just that, for me, the PT is one giant flaw*, with a few good moments. While the OT is a great trilogy**, with a few flaws. But in no way do I think the OT is perfect.***

That said, I think it's kinda sad that *anyone* would let someone else's opinion affect their enjoyment of something. If you like it, you like it. Embrace that. You think people don't criticize the OT? They do. But I don't care, and I don't consider them "bashers' either. They're just people with different opinions. I've always been glad to hear that people out there appreciated the PT. Really. It means maybe they are not really as bad as how they appear *to me*. And being a SW fan, that makes me happy. I *do* support the brand, after all.

*Actually, I'm really mostly referring to the first two films. Episode III was totally decent, IMO.
**I will concede that ROTJ is actually a *very* flawed movie. I like it, but yeah….*sigh*
***ESB is nearly perfect, however. And you can try to knock it off its pedestal all you like, but to me, it will always be the closest thing to a flawless SW film.

 

Hear, hear. Each time I go to say something, I discover that you've already said it, better than I was about to, so I don't bother!