PT Where's the love for Count Dooku?

Didn't Cushing himself call them that, in his autobiography or in interviews?

 

I felt a bit pity when Dooku was hesitating in The Clone Wars "Nighsisters" season 3 in calling Sidious that he had killed Asajj Ventress in the battle of Sullust. Before that, you could only assume that Dooku had a crush on his assassin-apprentice. But in this moment when he was first hesitating and then told Sidious with such a grief in his eyes about Ventress' death it became clearly obvious for me how he must have liked her. Her killing was not only a test of loyalty to Sidious but also that lesson of the Dark Side that you have to renounce to all the things dear to you. It was the same lesson, Vader learnt, when Padme died.

Sure, the Ventress-thing is not necessarily PT, but Dooku must get the scarcely available love from wherever he can

 

I don't hear much complaining about Dooku, People knock ep 2 but not really Dooku, he usually escapes that

 

Dooku didn't care for Ventress. She was a tool. She was simply property to him. And with her constant failures she was property with little value. I think their relationship is handled well in the Republic comic series, but even TCW does a decent job on it I must admit.

 

IL if Sir did I disagree with him.

 

Hi SC,

I didn't red the Republic-comic-series yet. Thank you for that hint. Did you watch TCW, s3, ep. "Nightsisters"? When you will take a closer look at Dooku's behavior before he contacted Sidious, then it is obvious that Ventress was not only a tool for Dooku.

And it shall be mentioned that Dooku defended her several times infront of Sidious when the latter doubted her qualities as an assassine. It was Sidious instead who regarded Ventress as a mere tool right from the beginning at Rattatak where Dooku was nearly fancying about her in front of Sidious' holo-presence stepping down the stairs towards the fighting ground. That happened in the first part of that Genndy Tartakowsky two-parted animation-cartoon-movie "Clone Wars".

And, not to forget - Sidious was not eager to have Ventress eliminated because of her failures, but he said clearly in the very same TCW-episode to Dooku:

Sidious: "Your assassine Asajj Ventress - she became to strong. I feel uncomfortable to presume that you use your assassine for toppling me."

Dooku: "No way! I swore you allegiance!"

Sidious: "Then proove it and kill her!"

Dooku (hesitating and struggling): "But Ventress is my best assassine."

Sidious (angry): I said: Kill her!

Dooku (broken): As you wish, my Lord.

Please tell me: Is this a behavior like Dooku regarded her as a tool only? Of course a man like Dooku wouldn't tell her straight from the heart what he's feeling like about her. Not until he became Dark Lord of the Sith - perhaps

Ventress didn't fail in every mission. It became pretty clear to me that Sidious' criticism of Ventress was not only criticism because of her failures in some missions but rather because of her being a potential threat to Sidious' supremacy. Thus Ventress can't have been that bad.

 

I admit Ventress is portrayed as a powerful figure, especially intially in the Republic comics where she kills dozens of Jedi. In that regard she is certainly a useful tool. But many of her storylines are also about her constant failures, usually at the hands of Anakin or Obi-Wan. While her rage is her greatest weapon she is also unable to control it.

It's interesting that you see it as Dooku caring for her, it certainly changes the dynamic of how you would typically think of a Sith. I kind of see it as the reaction you would have if your mom told you to give away your Xbox. You would be pissed off because..Xbox is awesome, but at the end of the day it's just a game system.

 

Question: Do you guys think that Dooku was a real Sith? To me he seemed like a bored Jedi who had lost his way in life, not quite "Sithy".

 

His true identity was Darth Tyranus. So yeah, he was a Sith.

 

The question for me is the opposite: Did Maul survive till Dooku was sliced by Anakin? The last time we see Dooku and Maul alltogether was in SoD. It is the eternal question how much time run between SoD and Dooku's and Grievous' "assault" on Palpatine at Coruscant and what happened inbetween. (the lost TCW-arcs probably)

Dooku did even Jedi things without going into the "Jedi mode".

His eternal classical look shall symbolize that he is actually more than a Jedi or a Sith. Not at home nowhere. He was indeed the classical eternal second (adseculus) - first to Yoda, who deemed him a geek pupil who's pride and eagerness could be dangerous. In the Jedi-Temple he studied secretly Sith-holocrons. He wanted to end the war, which he was blaming the Jedi to be responsible for - not being aware that Sidious and Plagueis were the big two grey eminences behind all that new and strange turmoil spilling from the Outer Rim into the Core worlds.

Then Dooku became second to Sidious, who was twenty years younger than his new Sith-apprentice - and aware that the former Jedi wouldn't be satisfied with gaining and using power just driven by emotions like hatred and anger. Only then he realized who was responsible for the war and upstirrings in the galaxy. He tried to compensate his mistake when he tried to make secret alliances first with Obi-Wan Kenobi then with Asajj Ventress to topple Sidious. But by then it was to late for him. Obi-Wan didn't believe him and Dooku then with Ventress was to wobbling, to much hesitating, to coward, to broken to challenge the Dark Lord of the Sith finally.

 

Sudooku, summed up quite well. I enjoy Dooku as much as I enjoy Saruman. Though I tend to think of Dooku's fall as much more complex and slower.

 

I don't think Dooku is a coward but it's nice to see someone else understand that he wasn't really Jedi or Sith. More than anything Dooku was Grey. Simply a man with great gifts that attempted to make the galaxy better.

 

I think that was the main reason Lee was cast. It was the last attempt to have Cushing and Lee in the same movie/saga. It was great idea by Lucas.

 

I agree he was kind of like Revan

 

Dooku is to government what Revan is to military.

 

Or, a puppet of Palpatine's, who lost sight of the goal "make the galaxy better" long before we even see him on screen for the first time.

 

Yeah, Dooku may have been this "gray" idea at some point, but even by the time of AOTC he's pretty clearly Sith, and quite an evil one.

We're talking about someone who took a personal role behind the creation of the clone army that apparently everyone finds so immoral, and he's made a fake bargain with the greediest, most immoral businessmen in the galaxy to wage a fake war on the Republic that would culminate in the genocide of the Jedi order and usher in the tyrannical Empire.

This is a guy who has accepted the name Tyranus.

Not to mention the little things like trying to assassinate a Senator....apparently for something as egregious as opposing the Military Creation Act....and to piss off Anakin, of course. This is also a person who passively stands by as three people are used as sport in a gladiatorial arena.

And this is coming from someone, me, who has always been quite sympathetic toward Dooku, and genuinely agrees that he wanted to make the galaxy a better place at one point.

This is where CushingsAdmirer says "I disagree" and little more, if that at all.

Which, to be fair, she is free to do.

 

When what Dooku says "Join me and together we will destroy the Sith" conflicts so much with what he's being doing for the last 10 years, I take what he says with a pinch of salt.

Or even a pint of salt

 

Cushy thought it was awesome and not contradictory at all. I bet they could've too!

 

i got a lot of love for count dooku because christopher lee plays him with such class...i also like the way he is depicted in "star wars: yoda dark rendezvous" "darth plagueis" and in the ROTS novel...he's not just evil for the sake of evil like in the films...he actually feels that his actions are making a difference to the current state of the republic and is clearly being exploited by sideous...dooku is actually a victim and sideous played on all his sentiments to restore order to the galaxy...you can kind of catch a glimpse of this in Christopher lee's expression and eyes before he dies in rots and most definietly in the EU

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk (I just am naturally) but..there's so much wrong here.

More than a Jedi or a Sith? He was a Jedi who became a Sith, and died a Sith. So in the end, he was a Sith.
Second to Yoda? No Mace Windu was second to Yoda. Dooku wasn't even on the Jedi Council.
He wanted to end the war? This is mind blowing. Dude he started the war. He had been planning it for a decade. The entire success of his plan depended on the galaxy being ravaged by war.
Wanted to topple Sidious? Eventually...probably? Certainly not using Obi-Wan or Ventress. They were simply tools that would be used to serve his ends. He seems very trusting of Sidious, even blindly allowing his life to be decided by the whim of his master. According to the ROTS novelization, which is possibly the best insight we get into the mind of Dooku, he saw his relationship with Sidious as a partnership, which he was clearly mistaken.

I agree, except I wouldn't say he is depicted as just "evil" in the films. In reality he is only in what, 4 scenes? We don't really ever get a feel for him as a person. All we know is that he is dishonest, and that he trusts Sidious too much.

 

As I've gotten older, I appreciate the character of Dooku more and more with each viewing.

I would've preferred that Maul survive TPM and be the integral villain in AOTC and ROTS until Anakin overthrows him as apprentice, but I'm not at all mad about Dooku coming in to the fold.

Christopher Lee gave a masterful performance. And it's always been the more hardcore fans that have a problem with Dooku as a character, most casuals thought he was very menacing and a credible foe.

General Grievous is the character that sucked on screen, not Dooku, and certainly not Maul. But I do agree the villains of the prequel trilogy were a bit crowded and convoluted as a whole.