Lit Ancient Races: Celestials, Rakata, and Co

That's kind of what happens to the Rakata- they end up on the ash heap.

 

Yes, really. I don't like the Rakatan.

 

I've never played KOTOR.

I've only read the sourcebooks, read DOTJ, and played a little of TOR.

And I've explained my position.

I also don't know what point you're making about humans? Other than that prejudice toward human dominance in Star Wars is indeed pessimistic?

It's a matter of perspective.

I like how in TFA, they show that the Light is actually as seductive, if not more seductive, than the Dark.

 

If your human-I wouldn't say it's pessimistic that's humans are dominant in the GFFA-I wouldn't want to live in a GFFA dominated by Hutts, pureblood Sith, Rakata, or the Yuuzhan Vong.

 

1. I don't know how that's relevant to anything else we were just talking about?

2. We should obviously want civil rights / equality for all species in the GFFA.

 

1. You're the one who brought up human supremacy, anyway the Rakata proves that wasn't always the case
2. I guess, I mean some species aren't really compatible to work with human civilization-insectoids and perhaps pureblood Sith as examples and arguably the Hutts-but Star Wars doesn't focus as much on inter species conflict-though legends and canon sources make it abundantly clear it takes place.

 

Any particular reason why?

 

1. No, I was responding to this part of your post: "As for humans..."

2. The point of the Force... the point of the Republic... is that all species are compatible to work together. And we know there are good pureblood Sith, good Hutts, good insectoids. Different isn't bad. Different isn't incompatible.

 

1. I was responding to you referencing mythology about man being a mistake
2. The republic yes(though an OU deconstructionist or some aliens might say it's a vehicle for human supremacy) but the force no, the force isn't some benovelent God that wants everyone to work together it isn't even clear that's it's sentient and if it is that's no guarantee its will for you is a happy one-Examples Jacen Solo and the Cathar-both arguably the will of the force if its sentient(both unpleasant ends).

 

This is still the most genuinely bizarre complaint about the Rakata I've ever seen. Star Trek of all things has had numerous flavors of ancient evil aliens, and it's never really been a problem to it being a famously utopian, optimistic sci-fi franchise. Complain about them being cliched, overused, unnecessary - I can at least understand all of those things. But this whole "it casts a fundamental shadow over the positive nature of Star Wars" thing makes no kriffing sense whatsoever, to me.

 

1. I was talking about how the creation of the world can set the tone for the entire world

2. The Force is generated by all life. The Light Side is about harmony between all.

Are the founders of the Star Trek universe, the creators of all basic things in that world, an ancient evil hyper-advanced civilization? I thought it was a mix of human ingenuity/progress combined with a visit by the benevolent space-elves the Vulcans.

 

The Rakata allowed the human race, Duros, and the rest to achieve hyperspace travel and make the premise of Star Wars possible with galactic civilization and all.

The force is generated by all life-that doesn't mean it has your best interests in mind.

 

There's an ancient progenitor race that is responsible for everyone looking like humans with weird foreheads, but they were benevolent explorers. The Q are super-powerful jerks, but they're not responsible for creating anything as far as anyone knows. There are plenty of old, evil empires (T'Kon, Iconians, even the Dominion is apparently about 2000 years old), but they're all very geographically limited, and aren't responsible for much beyond ancient ruins. FWIW.

 

I hope this doesn't sound passive-agressive, but watching youtube videos of the "Unknown World" (Lehon/Rakata Prime) portion of KOTOR swayed my opinion of the Rakata.

 

Yeah, no, I'm sorry, but this is still making no sense. So what if they invented the hyperdrive? (Which is only sort of true in the first place - Rakatan hyperdrives worked on a different principle from the modern one, being dark side-based "magitech" like most of their technology). They didn't found the Republic or interstellar civilization in general, and even if they had, I really don't see why that's particularly incompatible with a story that was originally about overthrowing an evil empire and establishing a democratic government.

I'm not trying to come across as particularly hostile here, BTW - I'm hardly a partisan of the Rakata being introduced to Star Wars. (I kind of wish the Star Forge in KOTOR had been of ancient Sith design). But this is just one of the most genuinely weird arguments I've ever seen made on the JCF - including Wocky's stuff - and I still don't understand it even a little.

Edit: And actually, now that I think about it, DOTJ established the Rakata as having been originally contacted/uplifted by the largely-benevolent Kwa, so even if this strange "the general tone of a sci-fi series is affected by the ethics of the original starfaring civilization" premise was true, it shouldn't matter anyway to SW.

 

I don't like their and their stuffs design. I dislike their "been there, done that" all over the galaxy thing and I don't like how the all to often are presented as more advanced then the current civilization in most ways.

 

Well, again, there have been instances in which the fall of an advanced civilization can cause certain technologies and arts to be lost and rediscovered again. Hell, it happened with the Roman Empire so why not?

 

If we are going to use the Roman Empire as example so is it good to point out that the middle age developed stuff that the romans did not have, like wind- and watermills. And we have now suppressed the Roman empire while some of the Rakatan stuff is still on the "impossible" corner.

And it is not that they have some stuff that are more advanced then current standard (the Kwa have hypergates and I like them) it is that all their stuff seems to be just as good as GFFA standard or better. I think part of the problem for me is that we get to know to much about the Rakatan, one or two high-tech artefacts or seemingly impossible tasks here and there in the galaxy I am okey with as long as we don't get to know to much, the mystery is part of the fun, and it could just be that that advanced civilization hade another development path that made them develop highly advanced tech in one field (the field the artefact belongs to) but not as advanced in others.

Also I forgot to ad to my "why I dislike the Rakatan list": that it seems* now most SW tech is Rakatan hand-me-downs instead of something the different civilizations have developed separately of each other or together.

* I have not see any first-hand info of this but many commenters on the net says so.

 

The Rakatan empire was actually pretty small IIRC in terms of planets controlled-and they hyperdrive was reverse engineered mostly by humans and duros. But I like the idea of a race in the distant past enslaving humanity, glassing planets, heck even invading Korriban.

Most progenitors-are usually good or noble-the Rakata aren't-their barbaric imperialist savages. That's what makes them interesting

 

The amount of space they had travelled is rather big.

Which I don't like

I have to admit that I have no real-problem with that part in theory, it is the presentation I dislike.

Really? Becouse many of the progenitors I know of are not good.

 

Maybe just as whatever Snoke is replaced the Sith, the Sith replaced the Rakata?

 

We're talking about Legends here.

 

I wasn'f responding to that argument. I was talking about how the Rakata could be canonized.

 

This probably isn't the appropriate thread-but I don't understand why everyone is this is recanonized and this could be recanonized and this might be recanonized! I mean really-it's gone it's not the same-its such a degrading form of enthusiasm.

 

We're excited to see classic things interpreted through a new lens. It's nothing exclusive to Star Wars; people don't think they should stop making Sherlock because the books have been out for 100 years or so.