main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Census Best U.S. President?

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 13, 2016.

?

Best President(s) of the United States of America?

  1. George Washington

    18.3%
  2. James Madison

    4.2%
  3. John Quincy Adams

    4.2%
  4. James Knox Polk

    8.5%
  5. Abraham Lincoln

    42.3%
  6. Theodore Roosevelt

    15.5%
  7. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    25.4%
  8. Barack Hussein Obama

    29.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    FWIW I don't think they're "broad generalizations" so much as a bad way to state a case against somebody on a list of racists and imperialists.
     
    Violent Violet Menace likes this.
  2. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    It is silly to make that suggestion with this list of Presidents. You could argue they were all racists and imperialists. That's what I first said to Wocky at the beginning: which one of these weren't racist and imperialist? Obama I would say no on the racism.
     
  3. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    If anything it's all a distraction from the real issue, which is that this poll allows multiple picks and yet no one has chosen James K. Polk citing solely the strength of the They Might Be Giants tribute song.

     
  4. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Americans- self hating imperialists.
     
  5. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    That is a good song. Polk: Great President if we define "Great" as accomplishing what he set out to do and did it in one term.

    Best I find a nebulous term. I mean, I like Obama and identify with him the most, as I'm sure most people today would. We are not nineteenth century slaveholders or rich millionaires who are raised in an elite family. We also identify with Obama's agenda. It almost handicaps the others haven him there.

    Best I would say "Great" instead based on accomplishments, for good or ill.
     
  6. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006

    Uhhhh John Quincy Adams
     
    MrZAP and ShaneP like this.
  7. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    [face_worried] But okay, that is it!

    Poor guy. I forgot he was even here.
    Old JQ lost his behind and relegated to one term because of it too. Perhaps too smart or ahead of his time.
     
  8. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Who's currently getting about as many votes as he got in 1828 amirite?
     
    MrZAP likes this.
  9. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Wrong to many of his contemporaries. You can't accuse me of being "modernist" in my beliefs for criticizing him in the same way many people of his own age and time criticized him. Someone always has people that agree with him. Osama Bin Laden had as many followers in Al-Qaeda as George Washington's entire Continental ARmy. That doesn't make it magically wrong to criticize the man. Mere agreement can't be exculpatory.

    A meaningful standard is whether the overall cultural milieu would have seen a person's views as normal or unusually strong. In the case of someone like Washington, things fall mostly into the former category, which is why I didn't criticize him in that way. In the case of Roosevelt, his racism was more notable, and more strongly objected to by people raised in the same culture and from the same background as he. If they, in the same shoes as he, can admit something was wrong, I'm well within my rights to agree with them.

    What alternative standard do you use? Is there ever any basis for criticizing the action of any human being?
     
  10. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    While racism was obviously the norm, the U.S. before 1898 had a strong anti-imperialist streak when it came to overseas territory. President Cleveland, for example, was extremely resistant to Hawaiian annexation, and it wasn't until McKinley succeeded him that the former kingdom became a U.S. territory. Even during the Spanish-American and Philippine-American Wars there was a significant anti-imperialist faction which included people such as Mark Twain and Helen Keller.
     
    Abadacus and Ghost like this.
  11. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Darth Guy, that doesn't mean they were mainstream.

    Wocky, to suggest that Teddy Roosevelt was wrong in his timeā€¦have you ever heard of the historian Frederick Jackson Turner? Roosevelt was precisely of his time Wocky. And the Progressives were overwhelmingly White Anglo-Saxon Protestants Wocky. What were they objecting to? He was playing to them.
     
  12. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    So were his many and prominent critics.
     
  13. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Madison and Washington were best before they became president, and JQA was best after he was president, so they're out. Polk's mullet automatically disqualifies him, and while FDR was cool, he's not "got shot and continued giving a speech because **** you" cool like his cousin. And yet, while I love Teddy, racism and all, he wasn't quite best.

    So I'll go with obvious best Abe and hipster best Barry.
     
    MrZAP likes this.
  14. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Hipster best is obviously W. H. Harrison. "Oh, my favorite president? He died in 30 days, he's pretty obscure."

    Also because everyone referred to him as Old Tippecanoe I like to imagine he would introduce himself as Ya boy Willie Harrison AKA Old Tippecanoe AKA Tyler's Accompaniment AKA the Log Cabin and Hard Cider Candidate AKA the One Month Wonder.
     
    Violent Violet Menace likes this.
  15. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    and Tyler too
     
    MrZAP and Ramza like this.
  16. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Ghost should have made this the most underrated President and then had a poll. Those arguments would be interesting.
     
    Ghost likes this.
  17. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Lyndon Johnson if not for Vietnam, which was a major driver of the Great Society's failure. Also Mussolini wasn't so bad except for the fascism.
     
    MrZAP likes this.
  18. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    lol

    I meant really underrated. LBJ ehh. How about Franklin Pierce?
     
  19. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    I mean, I guess his fire-eating abilities were well regarded.
     
  20. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Fire water drinking abilities.
     
  21. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I'd also say Washington was not an imperialist. FDR's policies weren't really imperialist, though that might have changed if he had lived to finish his fourth term.
     
  22. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    /\ Yeah Washington is arguable over his life but not so much as President. He is arguably over his life when you consider he served in the Seven Years War.

    Lincoln is only losing to Obama by ONE vote. I think this voting process has clearly been hacked and compromised by the wockians.
     
  23. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    If it hadn't been for Vietnam I'd almost argue him for being in the top 5. But with it he's simply in the top 15 or 20. Really weird presidency to rate.

    Most underrated (certainly on this list) is probably Polk. One of the most competent and impactful executives in our history and barely a footnote for most people. JQA is up there as well.

    Best in terms of accomplishments has to be FDR. It's hard to overstate the level of transformative change his presidency had and the accomplishments he made. He does have several really black marks that are hard to overlook, though.
     
    ShaneP and Ghost like this.
  24. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    itt, Americans already retreating to ruminations over the glorious past.
     
    MrZAP likes this.
  25. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    How about William Howard Taft? Only person to serve as POTUS and Chief Justice of SCOTUS.
     
    ShaneP likes this.