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Rogue One Trust goes both ways: The bond between Jyn and Cassian

Discussion in 'Anthology' started by cerealbox, Dec 17, 2016.

  1. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I basically sum up their bond in the end as one of deep mutual admiration. Both are hardened, desensitized individuals who are softened a bit by each other.

    I'm glad there was no kiss. It would have cheapened the moment. I also think there is a fair amount of PTSD in Jyn, Cassian, Riz, Baze, and Imwe. Not to mention Saw and Galen. Only Tarkin is like Dooku (cut off from empathy enough to not have PTSD over the horrors he has committed). (Don't get me started about Vader's PSTD and other issues.) I think Krennic was haunted by some of the bad deeds he inflicted upon others. He just kept it to himself through unhealthy rationalization. Cassian and Jyn proved to be more human than him, much like K.
     
  2. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    I'm content with how they grew to respect each other, and thought the final moment was a good ending for them.
     
  3. nonesuch

    nonesuch Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 18, 2015
    As far as I'm concerned the central idea with Jyn and Cassian was the tragic lost potential. There was clearly chemistry and attraction there. In another life they might have fallen in love, married and had a family together. That they died together, having all that potential extinguished, underlines the extent of their personal sacrifice.

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  4. mirrorbright

    mirrorbright Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2016
    I'm [sometimes] one of those people who think "not everything has to be romantic" and it doesn't really. But... with them... oh man. (some rambling ahead)

    It's absolutely OKAY to see them as just two people in a war movie, learning to trust each other and developing a platonic relationship, nothing else. And this did happen.

    However, for me: it is platonic yes, but with romantic undertone. There are a lot of unspoken things between them. Novelization points to that, a lot especially through Cassian's thoughts. Here's a post with many *spoilery* Jyn and Cassian quotes from the novel. Many of these (in my opinion) point to something more than just platonic feelings on both sides. I could spend hours talking about novelization, honestly.

    They are two very similar people, with similar backgrounds. They are like mirrors, that's why they initially clash (Diego's words), but once they overcome their obstacles (big trust issues), their bond gets stronger. Felicity said, after being asked about the nature of their relationship:" I think it’s all of those things (love, friendship, romance) …. And then obviously when there’s antagonism there’s also something else going on. There’s another kind of tension. And so it’s about it being all of those things, and finding a love throughout that." I read that Gareth's idea was to [eventually] bring Jyn back home, which does happen - but as a metaphorical home (which is why "welcome home" is such a powerful quote). Both of them have never really had that: Cassian has been fighting since he was six (assuming he lost his family as well, i really want to hear about his backstory), Jyn lost her biological family as a child, then Saw. Their ending was bittersweet because they had each other in those final moments, they weren't alone. But they died before anything could start between them.

    The whole "what could've been" is something that i personally loved, the potential. Two characters that grow to trust and depend on each other. Two characters who find something they secretly longed for. Cassian, who repeatedly saves her life, even though he considers her "expendable" after they find Saw, but he does it over and over, and doesn't understand why... Cassian finds someone to care about deeply. Jyn, who finds someone to trust again, despite everything that happened between them... she finds someone she considers "home". I think all of this is very powerful, heartbreaking and beautiful.
     
  5. solostarwars

    solostarwars Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2016
    agreed ! The whole movie I was completely convinced Cassian liked Jyn, and I still think he does. Maybe the way he looked at her all movie long lol.
    I was sort of hoping for a kiss at some point near the end. Maybe not at the very ending scene but a little before that. I was also convinced that while they were in the elevator on the way down and staring at each other they were gonna kiss for sure. I was wrong haha.

    There is a bit of pressure from Star wars viewers for romance in every single one of the films.. my guess is to keep the female audience content and interested. In my opinion, I would enjoy some romance but I don't think every SW movie needs it for success. Rogue One has killed in the box office without it, and I enjoyed it anyhow. Was a great movie indeed
     
  6. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Haven't read the novelization yet, so I can't comment on that.

    For what it's worth, while I wouldn't be opposed to it, I didn't see the duo as a romantic couple from the movie alone. I think they bonded certainly (Andor made a point of trying to keep her safe her long after the Alliance didn't need her, when Jyn compares him to a stormtrooper, there seemed to be a "I thought you were better than that" vibe that seemed to go beyond being coworkers, if that makes any sense) and were friends by the end.

    On the other hand, I could buy that them having a spark that might've lead them to having some kind of future had they survived the war (remember, they didn't know each other that long and had a severe breach in trust that needed to be fixed halfway through). If the novelization is explicit as mirrorbright has reported, I would revise my view of them as just new friends to them starting to fall for each other.

    It will be interesting when the BluRay comes out and if there's any material that suggests that the filmmakers ever considered going that route, or if there was more clear material that was edited out, or something.

    Admittedly, I'm more convinced that Rey and Finn will become a couple in the TFA sequels -- although we'll see, given that the Powers That Be seem to be hinting that we're reading too much into that -- partially since I think there's no doubt they love each other -- just the question if it's in a familiar or romantic way -- and the novelizations really seem to hint that they were starting to fall for each other.

    Either way, it is really interesting that both movies (both in comparison to the old Star Wars movies and the modern blockbusters) have chosen to not go for an obvious love story and seem to be making a point of keeping the question if there was one unclear, while conversely, it seems that the novelizations seem to go in favor of supporting one.
     
  7. Jmacq1

    Jmacq1 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 20, 2005
    That's not unique to Star Wars fans. It's just kind of a certain segment of movie viewers/entertainment consumers in general. Shipping is certainly a thing.

    That said, Star Wars, as I noted above, has usually been somewhat of a slower burn on romance...in both trilogies the romance didn't REALLY kick in until the second movies.
     
  8. dobix

    dobix Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2016
    I didn't see them becoming a couple until the very end of the movie, and i think the ending was a real nice touch. It's worth noting that, while i didn't feel the movie was centered around the relationship between Jyn and Andor, it's Andor's trust in Jyn that sets up the defining moment of the movie, when he decides to join her in her quest on Scarif, thus creating the Rogue One crew.

    This is in fact a recurring theme in SW, where major decisions are made because of 'romantic interests' ; Anakin betrays the Republic because of her love with Padme, Luke looks for Obi-Wan at the beginning of ANH because he wants to find out more about Leia whom he finds beautiful, and Finn agrees to fight for the resistance in TFA because he wants to rescue Rey.
     
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  9. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2015
    I am in the 'it could have been either' camp personally, and think the ambiguity was the best choice. My own personal interpretation is that there was an underlying attraction on some level, and in another time and another place it could have been a full fledged romance, but here and now it was not - just two damaged people finding acceptance and respect in each other.

    I certainly think the criticism of the romantic approaches of the Lucas era movies has influenced the decision to make it more low key and subtle in the new ones. There is also a more cynical part of me that suspects someone in the creative process knows that ''shippers'' are an active part of many fandoms and playing them off against each other is a cheap way to generate interest/debate.
     
  10. Dak Oolron

    Dak Oolron Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2014
    I love the ambiguity. It was a major relief for me that they DIDN'T kiss (would've seemed forced/predictable, IMO), but I like that the romantic path was never explicitly ruled out (I admit there was plenty of body language supporting it). It was well written so that everyone wins... perfect.
     
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  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I won't argue against the idea that there was potential for a romance had both of them lived, but I do not think that was the central characteristic of their interactions and certainly not of their individual character arcs (the latter would diminish both of them).

    I also think Cassian went along with Jyn to Scariff because it was the right thing to do, not because she wanted to do it and he liked her.
     
  12. Jcuk

    Jcuk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 16, 2013
    From what could be discerned about both of their lives, it's apparent romance and attraction hasn't featured much, if at all. But it's evident by the end that their different people. The lift scene in the Citadel tower pretty much confirmed to me they both knew of the positive change and effect that they'd had on each other. Which made their embrace on the beach a very bittersweet moment IMO. No doubt there was an attraction between them..
     
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  13. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016

    Obvious to me Jyn was one with the force while Cassian was not. Cassian had done horrible deeds as part of the Rebellion. She on the other hand was on neither side in the conflict. Killing her father would make him no worse than an Stormtrooper or Death Trooper. What made it worse was that her father was a defector and that without him their mission would not even be taking place. Jyn was correct when she called him out on being as vicious as the Imperial cronies that worked for Director Krennic. It was only later that this dawned on him when she was preparing to go after the Death Star plans by her safe.
     
  14. Pain and Suffering

    Pain and Suffering Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 8, 2015
    I was glad there wasn’t a romance in R1. A romance between Cassian and Jyn would have felt rushed and fake, whereas I think their friendship as it was feels real and deep. They calmly faced their end together as true friends, and that’s the way I liked the ending. Not every guy and girl that meet need to fall in love. I mean, I ship Finn and Rey as much as anyone else, but I think that Finn and Rey have much more time for their relationship to develop than Cassian and Jyn did, so it makes a lot more sense.

    Now if you see Cassian and Jyn as a romantic couple and that’s what’s works best for you, that’s fine, but for me, I think them as just friends works much better.
     
  15. SienneRe

    SienneRe Jedi Master star 2

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    Mar 23, 2016
    But that is the reason their bond is so good - every viewer can choose how to interpret it.
     
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  16. aceshigh78

    aceshigh78 Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 29, 2016
    I love that they didn't try to force a cheesy romance in there...I was SO happy when they didn't kiss in the elevator or on the beach. The embrace was platonic and meant to comfort each other, as they both knew they were going to die.

    Well done, Disney!
     
  17. MrElculver2424

    MrElculver2424 Jedi Master star 4

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    May 11, 2014
    I thought it was perfect that a tiny bit of romantic bond was there by the very end, but not forced. The way they did it...just keeping it to dragging each other down to the beach and hugging...was flawless.
     
  18. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2012
    It's actually refreshing when action films don't try to add in a romance subplot where it usually doesn't belong. Episode I also took the same route. I think the ending was satisfying in that we see two people who despised each other in the beginning find comfort dying in each other's arms at the very end.
     
  19. forever_jedi

    forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Felicity Jones and Diego Luna presented together at the Golden Globes, and both looked stunning. Jyn Erso and Cassian Andor could have made an awesome and fiery couple had they lived.......
     
  20. decraniated

    decraniated Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Yeah, their photos together were really charming
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Vespasian

    Vespasian Jedi Master star 2

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    Nov 1, 2012
    For me, Cassian's hesitation about shooting Dr. Erso came out of nowhere. I think we needed another scene with Jyn and Cassian to establish their bond, or he should have had a flashback scene about his previous life, when he was a better person.
     
  22. Jonipoon

    Jonipoon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2014
    They kissed off-screen in the elevator.

    You don't kiss someone when you're about to die - you hug them.
     
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  23. CrackedKyberCrystal

    CrackedKyberCrystal Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2016
    There was definitely an implied attraction between Jyn & Cassian. The way they looked at each other on the elevator left no doubt in my mind. I thought it was handled beautifully. Kiss was not necessary and in fact it would've almost certainly felt out of place considering all of the death and carnage and the seriousness of the mission's objective.

    As for Cassian's hesitation about shooting Galen Erso, I took that as his being swayed by Bodhi's claim re Galen - i.e. that it was Galen who sent Bodhi to help subvert the Empire's plans for the Death Star - as well as his obeying the instructions to extract Galen given to him by Mon Mothma in the meeting, not Gen. Draven who, in secret, tells him to ignore what he just heard in the meeting. When Draven tells Cassian to just kill Galen, Cassian actually has a quick look on his face like he got instructions he'd rather not have received.


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  24. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2017
    I thought they fell in love over the course of the movie, just that they were both committed to the 'cause' and thus wouldn't bother acting on it much. I actually didn't notice this until I watched the movie a second time. It makes sense since each had something the other needed. Cassian has been fighting the Empire for almost his entire life ("doing something about it") while Jyn has sort of shunned the fight. Knowing Cassian helps her find her purpose. Knowing Jyn helps Cassian find what he's lost because of how badly he had sacrificed his morality. They redeem one another. It's just that the world won't let them survive this (which speaks to the horror of the Empire).
     
  25. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 2, 2016
    Simply and perfectly said.
     
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