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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Rogue One The Moral Choices/Dilemmas of Rogue One

Discussion in 'Anthology' started by CrAsHcHaOs, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    I can see that. I loved the abruptness though cause I think it was intended to be that way. I assume Gareth wanted to make audience question what the heck just happened and almost jolt up out of their seat. I do agree that the scene with him and Tivik could have been longer though. Like it took me a while to even figure out he was a Partisan. I thought he was actually a miner hired by the Imps or something.
     
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  2. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 2, 2016
    I really love the ambiguity of it.
     
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  3. CrAsHcHaOs

    CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 7, 1999

    This comic panel is interesting. What happened exactly? What sacrifice did Leia have to make? I wanna read this comic!
     
  4. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    She is talking about letting Alderran get destoryed and how if she could sell out the Alliance in any way to save it should still would not have. It is also in a larger sense about how she can perpetuate a fight with the Empire when innocent people get caught in between and die. The other person hates both sides of the war and Leia does not really deny that it is the Alliance's fault in part for the deaths caused but they are willing to take that risk and even kill for their cause. The issue overall is not great but the scene alone is worth it.
     
  5. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2017


    I love the fact that the Rebellion in Rogue One is in sort of a gray area and is not portrayed as the saintly good guy dorks on the white horses and that they are now much more real. It's far more interesting than anything we've seen in the Star Wars galaxy thus far.
     
  6. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Well, the Rebellion did participate in raids, sabotage, and blowing up an entire battle station full of Stormtroopers. They weren't exactly saints.
     
  7. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Who is, in a war?
     
  8. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998


    Have you seen Hacksaw Ridge?
     
  9. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014

    Well, said battlestation was used to commit planetary genocide, so that's not exactly an apt description of them not being saints. Such a weapon would be a legitimate military target.
     
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  10. themoth

    themoth Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 5, 2015
    Yes, exactly. I liked how they depicted Saw especially. How can you be trusting when your life is constantly at risk?
     
  11. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2013
    True, but how exactly does that make hundreds of thousands of enlisted men responsible for the actions of a few infantrymen and the top brass? When we won against Nazi Germany, we didn't prosecute every single German infantrymen because we knew that they were just following orders from much more evil men, either because of fear or coercion.
     
  12. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014

    No, we didn't. And while the men who crewed the Death Star may not have had a choice of being stationed there, that doesn't change the fact that it was a weapon designed for planetary destruction, and therefore, was a legitimate military target.

    If it was a regular Imperial base, then moral questions could be raised. But the Death Star had already been used in planetary genocide, even if it's second target was more "military focused."
     
  13. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2013
    They was still innocent casualties in a war. The Rebellion destroyed a battle station without remorse, and indiscriminately destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives in a result. It may have been a military target, but it's a tactic as questionable as nuking civilian cities to halt a war machine. I'm not saying the ends don't justify the means. The Death Star needed to be destroyed as did the Empire, but writing off hundreds of thousands of lives as casualties of a war that they had not much of a choice in does not display innocence on the part of the Rebellion.
     
  14. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014

    You can't compare the Death Star to, say, Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Neither of those cities were directly responsible for untold numbers of deaths. They may have contributed to the Japanese war machine, but they weren't weapons themselves like the Death Star.

    Does that mean the Star Destroyers weren't fair game either?
     
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  15. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2013
    Star Destroyers are warships, not military installations. As crewmen, everyone on board was complicent with any military operations that ship took part in. On a warship, even the cooks have battle stations. It's not like, say, an airbase, where the cooks are just cooks who also happen to know how to use their blasters but probably never will.

    And of course I can use Nagasaki and Hiroshima as a comparison. If we're talking "mere casualties of war complicent with the destruction of immeasurable lives", then I don't see how building weapons to supply a war machine is any different than using those weapons. By your level of morality, cooks and dishwashers as just as complacent to mass destruction as factory workers.
     
  16. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Your comparison to Nagasaki and Hiroshima would be more accurate if the Death Star wasn't a weapon of war itself and wasn't used to destroy a planet.

    I would hope the differences would be clear.
     
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  17. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Rogue One, guys, Rogue One.
     
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  18. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
  19. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Thread merge

    Edit: Never mind, make that "bump".
     
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  20. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Rogue One never really verges into Grey and Grey morality. Even with everything the Rebels do at most it could be described as 'light grey vs. pitch black'. Saw near enough tortures Bodhi via Bor Gullet, shows little concern for collateral damage and is heavily implied to have done worse before... BUT he was kicked out of the Rebellion for those precise reasons (or similar incidents at least.) Cassian is ordered to assassinate a scientist but this is done behind Mothma's back, Jyn calls him out on it and he himself has serious reservations. War brings out the worst in people but the Rebels never embrace it willingly, they see it as dirty deeds that must be done but never welcomed.

    The Imperials on the other hand have the ultimate weapon of mass destruction and use it to wipe out an entire city just to get rid of one activist cell. Tarkin blows up an Imperial facility full of Imperial troops on the chance of preventing the Death Star plans being retrieved by Rebels (and ultimately didn't even manage that.) Krennic is outplayed and outschemed by Tarkin but there's no reason to suppose he wouldn't be just as willing to use the Death Star had he been successful.

    The Rebels were not presented as paragons of virtue and nobility, it is true. But the Empire is still far, far worse - and that is the point. You don't bring down something like the Empire without getting your hands at least a little dirty. The important bit is not to let that become the norm, to acknowledge that what you've done isn't noble or righteous, just a necessary evil.
     
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  21. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 2, 2016

    I also don't like the descriptor "grey." That's not what it's about. Clearly, the Rebellion is morally on a higher plane than the oppressive, authoritarian Empire.

    The difference is that Rogue One presents more of a realistic historical picture of the Rebellion than the simplified mythic picture of the Rebellion in the OT. We simply see the kind of hard choices that are made by revolutionaries that are trying to take down a dictatorship - something that is simply true to history, and true to life.

    That's the main difference.
     
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  22. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016

    Yes though the Rogue One oufit broke with the instructions of their superiors as they see that the Senators have all but surrendered. When Jedha was destroyed the Rebel leaders for the most part were like which one of us will be next and they went a running. Rogue One came to the rescue and it was their efforts that contributed to getting the Death Star Designs. That and Princess Leia's timely escape to lightspeed. The Rebels certainly did not colour themselves in glory betraying the cause and victims of Jedha.
     
  23. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
     
  24. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    Yes though the Rogue One oufit broke with the instructions of their superiors as they see that the Senators have all but surrendered. When Jedha was destroyed the Rebel leaders for the most part were like which one of us will be next and they went a running. Rogue One came to the rescue and it was their efforts that contributed to getting the Death Star Designs. That and Princess Leia's timely escape to lightspeed. The Rebels certainly did not colour themselves in glory betraying the cause and victims of Jedha.

    By the way i agree the Rebels are far better the good guys than Krennic's lot but that is because the Empire is so totally evil and they don't pretend to be anything other than pure unadulterated amoral b*******. The Imperials do have many officers like Bodha who defected who must loathe working for the Empire and can't give up a life in the Empire to join Saw's Partisans because lets face it his faction was killing way more Imperials than the Rebels were.
     
  25. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2015
    Jedha showed that the Empire now had a weapon that could wipe out entire cities (and potentially planets) with a pull of a lever. Wondering if perhaps it's time to get the heck out of Dodge is a perfectly rational response, especially given that if Galen hadn't put his plan into place and Jyn had for whatever reason not joined the Rebellion then they would not have had any way of destroying it.

    Saw's band was indeed killing a whole lot of Imperials but the implication was that that was all he was doing. There was no strategic goal or political purpose to it, simply killing Imperials because they were Imperials. If Saw had ANY plan for what to do if the Empire did fall (unrelated to his own efforts on one planet) he showed no sign of it. He just wanted to fight. In contrast the Rebellion was prepared to fight and do what they must in order to restore democracy and return the Senate to true power instead of Palpatine's autocracy. Those Imperials who genuinely turned against the Empire and what it stood for would do far more good in joining the Rebel Alliance instead of partisan groups.