Lit Han and Leia in the EU - A Discussion Thread (Life Debt spoilers must be tagged)

Jedi Jessy so cute! Nice to see Leia acting like herself again.

In the old Marvel comics they actually kissed several times before ESB, although I think they were for undercover missions, and then there was a Valentine's story where they almost kissed but Chewie interrupted them.

I don't think they'll change their first kiss being in Empire but I bet we'll see a bunch of "almost" moments between them...something had to happen for Han to think he had a chance at the beginning of ESB.

 

I think an almost kiss could be cool (and It could explain why Leia is mad at Han in their first scene in ESB, she thought he was going to stay and maybe started something with her. So she could think he was playing with her feelings)

 

If you read Leigh Brackett's original script for ESB it's heavily implied they've been having a friends with benefits thing going for a while and Han wants more (gender reversal!) Leia says something along the lines of "What you mean to me and what I mean to you doesn't matter".

What I think actually happened is on Ord Mantell Leia was almost hurt or killed and Han saved her and they had a moment where they almost kissed but Leia turned away or they were interrupted. Something that made Han realize that Leia is in love with him and also that he needs to leave to pay off Jabba so she doesn't get hurt.

 

"I have a theory:
during ESB Leia said “I thought you had decided to stay” then Han reply “Well the bounty hunter we ran into in Ord Mantell changed my mind”.
So I think they started something (or Leia was starting to be more clear about her feeling about Han) bc “OH MY GOD HAN DECIDED TO STAY WITH US!”. Then they goes to Ord Mantell to a mission but a damn bounty hunter found Han and everything went wrong (maybe someone got hurt and Han felt guilty?)

Leia was apreensive looking to the door before Han shows up, maybe she started to think “what will happen now? Maybe Han will leave… Well, I DON’T CARE!!! I guess…”. So Han tried to see if Leia have feeling for him, because he 100% sure Jabba will kill him and he will never see Leia, Luke or any friends that he have now. But Leia have problems to reveal what she feels and making a cold reply is more easy to her



But then at the end of the film Leia FINALLY says “I love you” So now Han can die knowing that Leia have feeling for him

" Tumblr

 

Which is why "I know" is such a perfect reply. I hate it when fan bros like JJ try to make it sound like Han is just being a cocky dude bro who can't express weakness. It's all about Han saying "I knew you always loved me even when you denied it, don't feel guilty that you didn't tell me earlier." Because the whole movie is Han trying to get Leia to admit her feelings for him and her refusing to.

Plus in the canon version they were stuck on the Falcon for months going to Bespin so they had a lot of free time to explore their feelings in that time.

 

Is it still Luke was training / Han was taking the Falcon to Bespin for months? Whenever I watch the movie, it seems like a weekend. I'm actually cool either way, to be honest.

 

Yeah according to Pablo the trip took months. Jason Fry explained that Han's wedding gift of a kitchen in the Falcon to Leia was to make up for the months they spent on the Falcon living off rations which travelling to Bespin.

In Legends in the book Millennium Falcon Han thinks back to that time and how that trip sealed him and Leia falling in love with each other, hinting that they consummated their relationship then.

 

Luke's training took some months, I believe in around 3 months.

My problem was with ANH-ESB timeline, 3 years is too much time for the romance between Han/Leia happen or the revelation of Vader to Luke. But it's good HanLeia fell in love after they became friends and Luke is older when he find out he is Vader's son (when he was 19, Luke was more a "kid" ~Leia also is stronger in her 22 years~).

 

In the old EU it was explained that the reason why it took Han and Leia 3 years to get together was because Han was too heartbroken over the love of his life dying right before ANH. I think in the new canon they are going towards them both being in denial of their feelings for each other (especially Leia). Leia also had to deal with Alderaan and not wanting to let people close.

It also makes it not so sketchy with Leia being 21 and Han being somewhere between 30-35, vs Leia being 18 and Han being in his thirties when they get together.

 

How Leia got her Ewok dress.

 

Emilia will use a Leia-ish dress in Han Solo Movie. I'm 100000000% sure she will be his love interest

Spoiler

 

So Han has a type?

Of course he'd have a love interest (or multiple love interests) before he met Leia at 29. But couldn't Emilia be playing a smuggler, or a thief? With that dress (unless she's under a disguise, which is a possibility), she's clearly playing a Leia-like character.

It'll be Bria Tharen all over again. The new fans will prefer Han and with Emilia's character over Han and Leia. And if the girl dies, some will claim Han only fell in love with Leia because she reminded him of Emilia's character.

I really really hope I'm totally wrong.

 

This is what I'm afraid of too, Matt. The Bria Tharen thing all over again just with different names. Nothing wrong at all with Han having previous girlfriends, no problem with that at all. What I do have issues with is someone who they will build up to be the love of his life before Leia and who is very similar to Leia. And everything about his relationship with Leia will then echo back to this girl, just like with Bria. And if she has a tragic death that breaks his heart, that will be even worse. Ugh. No thanks.




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And no doubt the Han and "Emilia" fans will use Han and Leia's "failed" marriage, and what happened to their son, as examples to why Han and Leia were not a good match. God, how I miss Jaina, Jacen, and Anakin.

I'm really enjoying the new canon, and I love TFA, but I'm certainly not totally satisfied with the way Han and Leia are handled sometimes. And with Han dead and Carrie no longer with us... To use a quote from Harry Potter: These are dark times, there is no denying. Our world fandom has perhaps faced no greater threat than it does today.

 

What is your beef against Bria Tharen?

Is it just because she's not Leia?

Bria Tharen as a character is no way like Leia, if you read the AC Crispin trilogy.

If Emilia's character Val? is made to act and dress like Leia then she's not Bria Tharen 2.0. Even if the character dies.

So, without even watching the Han Solo: A SW story, I was always a Han/Bria 'shipper. This is because the AC Crispin trilogy is a good story, with a love interest that makes sense.

Now, this is not to say Han/Leia doesn't make sense, or is not worthy of 'shipping, but just because Han/Leia is your favourite ship, doesn't mean you have to hate Han's other love interests.



Bria Tharen/Han Solo = OTP.

Remember: "No women will get to me again, ever." -- Han Solo




tl:dr it's okay to ship multiple ships.

 

DARTH_MU I think they already explain why we don't like Bria. The writer even made the "I Love You/I know" be about Bria (when Han "break up" of Leia, the writer tried to put Bria in the story), Pablo Hidalgo also commented he doesn't like the idea of Han having a heartbroken before ANH

 

It's the way Bria was written that's the problem, not the character herself. The way Crispin had to make her the reason Han did certain things in his pursuit and romance of Leia that harkened back to Bria, like she was more important. For example Crispin said the reason that Han did not pursue a relationship with Leia for 3 years was because he was so heart broken over Bria. That he only joined the Rebellion because it was Bria's cause. That he said "I know" because it was similar to something Bria says. And there are other examples. Leia is always second best to Bria and everything Han does is because of her. Crispin could have left all of those things out and it would have worked much better. There are ways to create girlfriends for Han without stomping all over what the movies gave us.


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They can show Han having romance pre-Leia without be like:

Leia: hi
Han: OH MY GOD!!!! SHE LOOKS LIKE MY DEAD EX GIRLFRIEND!!!
Leia: hey, laser-brain!
Han: my ex called me "laser-brain" too
Leia: what th-
Han: she swears like my ex

 

Ugh. Though I find it interesting how the Han Solo Anthology is going in a different direction than what the EU did with making the love of Han's life the exact physical opposite of Leia (tall, thin, red gold hair, blue-green eyes) and is now just making her like a clone of Leia. I foresee a million articles about how we NOW know why Han and Leia broke up because Emilia Clarke's character was really the love of his life and Leia was just a rebound and second choice! Also brace for the shipping wars. I'm staying off Tumblr for the next five years.

The problem is in the new canon the general perception of Han and Leia is that they failed because they weren't good for each other, so fans of the new Han/Emilia pairing won't be deterred by the fact that Han eventually marries someone else, since it didn't work out in the end anyway.

And the problem with Bria as has been said in this thread multiple times is not that she was his ex girlfriend, because of course Han is going to have a lot of ex gfs before Leia. It's that she was written to have this crazy impact and retconning of his relationship with Leia, with almost all his dialogue with Leia in the movies going back to some reference to Bria, including the iconic "I love you" "I know". I mean why would Han be thinking about Bria during that scene? It's Han and Leia's greatest scene in the movies, and the HST craps all over that. Same with making Bria the reason Han joins the Rebellion eventually, in the movies it was clear it was supposed to be all because of Luke and Leia, not some dead ex girlfriend. Way too much Mary Sueism going on.

 

That is true, but only because 'shippers love to be contrary to canon. They'll always says stupid stuff like "Han fell in love with Leia because she reminded him of [Emilia's character]." It's what 'shippers do. There's no validity to it. 'Shippers also claim that Kylo was being romantic with Rey in the torture scene and that he lost the duel with her because he was conflicted by his feelings for her and so couldn't fight properly, and other ridiculous things like that. By the same token, of course they're going to say stuff about how Han would've been better with Emilia's character. "They wouldn't have broken up when Ben went dark if they were married instead of Leia," and other ridiculous babble. Doesn't make it canon and we can all safely ignore it.

 

uh.

Bria Tharen wasn't a Mary Sue at all.

She was a brainwashed cult member whom Han saved. There were some serious character building. Not a Sue at all. She wasn't written as attractive, she didn't have super powers. She died.

When I read the trilogy, I didn't get any hint that "Han did everything because of Bria wanted him to do it." Bria Tharen has absolutely agreed to abandon her plans and to meet Han and elope. She didn't. That's why Han was bitter.

Besides, your first love is always important. Rebound has nothing to do with it.

There were no shipping wars when the AC crispin trilogy was published. Why should there be now?

 

Yeah, she was absolutely a Mary Sue that the author inserted into SW to make her the most important character ever. Seriously, in a galaxy of trillions, what are the odds that the love of Han's life also starts the Rebellion and steals the Death Star plans? Imagine if Jyn Erso was also the love of Han's life - everyone would be saying it was way over the top and placing way too much importance onto one character. Also rewriting all of Han and Leia's scenes in the OT to be some reflection Bria is the definition of Mary Sueism.

The author's said numerous times that Bria is the reason Han does everything in the OT (waits 3 years to pursue Leia, comes back to save Luke on the Death Star, joins the Rebellion, says "I know" to Leia, etc.). Waaaaay too much importance for one character we never even heard of until 20 years after the OT was filmed. Han's character journey is that he did all those things because of Luke and Leia, retrofitting it to make it because of Bria is cheap and lazy and undermines his character arc and the impact Luke and Leia had on him.

She also checks off pretty much every single box on the Mary Sue chart - red-gold hair, beautiful, every guy who meets her falls in love with her, she's so beautiful even Boba Fett can't bring himself to kill her, she has a beautiful singing voice, birds land on her hand, Han obsesses over her for 10 years, then falls back into her arms the second she saunters back in his life, etc.

And yeah, there were definitely shipping wars when the HST came out with a lot of insane Han/Bria fans insisting Bria was the love of Han's life. And that was a book only read by thousands of people vs. a movie millions are going to see.

One thing to remember though is that there won't be a repeat of HST with Han finding out about the death of the love of his life right before he meets Obi Wan and Luke, because in the new canon book Han is thinking about all the different girls he has in various ports around the galaxy, so obviously he's been single for a while.

 

They could cast a woman of color to be his love interest (and be the female lead) but they prefer another white british brunette who will dress like Leia.

 

I'm still so sad they didn't cast Tessa Thompson or Zoe Kravitz. That would have at least gotten me interested in the movie.

Funny though, Emilia Clarke recently got some flack in the media for saying that she's discriminated against as a woman the way people of colour are, probably not realizing that a lot of people were unhappy that she was cast over the five women of colour who auditioned for the role.

 

As long as it wasn't in the books themselves I don't consider them canon.

Having red hair makes you Mary Sue?

Anyway, more on topic. I just need "Val" to survive. Every single romantic interest of major character dies. Now almost every single female character dies (Rey exepted, but we are not at episode 9 yet, so....). It's depressing.

edit: It's probably true though. Generally female gets like 80 cents per 1 dollar men get paid. It's just the way it is now. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.

edit 2: Also, it doesn't matter if it's Emilia or a person of color, if the directors wanted the character wearing the exact dress as Leia or have her with the iconic cinnamon bun hairstyle, there is nothing the audience can do about it....

edit 3: I'm mad that they didn't cast Saoirse Ronan as Rey, but what can I do?