Lit Comics Marvel Star Wars: General News & Trades Discussion Thread

I've never quite understood the issues people have with "tracing." I mean...does it bring the art in on time? Does it make Luke Skywalker look recognizably like Luke Skywalker? If the answer to both questions is "yes" then by all means bring on the tracing. As someone who couldn't draw a smiley face on a paper plate, I'm quite in awe of any artist with the degree of talent Larocca has even if he must occasionally use photo reference to seal the deal

Regarding the timeline of the series, we're well past the one-year anniversary of Yavin - that passed sometime between "Rebel Jail" and "Last Flight of the Harbinger." I think the last few arcs have compressed time a bit, though, otherwise it would mean that Threepio was a prisoner of the Empire for a really long time (he was captured over two story arcs ago!). My guess is that unless there is a big, as yet unrevealed jump in time between Rebel Jail and Harbinger, we are somewhere in the early part of the second year after Yavin at this point.

 

It doesn't bother me that Larroca traces, it just bothers me that in the Screaming Citadel and Yoda's Secret War, the colouring did not go well with his art. I think with the right colourist it could work, but whoever they are pairing with him now doesn't seem to be working.



Like there Larocca has captured Luke's likeness pretty well, but the colouring is off. It seems like they try to make really realistic looking faces, with everything else has a much more simple colouring style. You end up having these really weird faces that look like they've been photoshopped in to a different artist's work.

 

The reason people get frustrated with tracing is that we see other artists get their work in on time without tracing. if someone cannot make their art perfect and meet the schedule then they need to drop some of their workload. Guys like Barrows can get out two issues of det a month with consistent art. I am not trying to trash Larocca or anything but he traces a lot and has not seemed to improve that much in his time on Vader in fact he got more problematic in time. He is a fine artist when he takes his time so rather than rush the art and in doing so trace, he should do less books or whatever may help. I know it sounds selfish but come on it's a bad habit and if nothing else it should be brought up to let them know that we caught on so maybe they can be encouraged more to not trace.

That and once you see Land's art you end up with a massive aversion to tracing. I just re read Five Nightmares by Larroca and is really took me out to see how much he traced. Every face looked similar and like they where static shots of actual people (cause they where) and it just felt off. If someone needs to trace that often to get their books out then they need to stick to cover and minis or they need to drop the amount of work they are doing. Some people may be able to just ignore tracing but once you see how other artists can get so much out without tracing it ends up making you less forgiving.

That's not to say I dislike Larroca. i think he IS a good artists most of the time, it is just that the tracing will take me out of the reading experience a lot. Again to his Iron Man, the faces look terrible cause they are all traced and just feel off. Contrast that to McDonnell who drew IM and SS at the same time in the 80s and managed to make both look amazing, These people are hired for a certain job which is to create the art for a comic, if they cannot do that without cheating from time to time that is fine, but if it becomes a bad habit and keeps happening then it needs to be brought up. Especially when so many people Marvel hires trace all the time. It is a very serious issue and just ignoring it just lets it fester more and more.

This is not art


That was Land, now this was Larroca

and worse

That is not ok. I get doing it from time to time to meet deadlines but larroca keeps tracing and is pretty lazy about that. After years he has not improved that much with tracing and that is something i think needs to be called out. Again I like his work but he needs to be called out or we re gonna be stuck with stuff like the above. Push these people to do better cause we have seen better. Again at DC right now artists are working overtime and sure there are late books but better that than tracing. And yeah DC gives Finch work so i cannot trash Marvel THAT much but still.

It's worth mentioning that some artists I love like Tony Harris tend to trace these days. He will use his own models for reference but at least those are his other character models so it is still his. But when Harris just takes an image of Keaton for Booster Gold I lose a lot of respect for him cause i know he can do better.

Here is a good discussion of the issue that I think is pretty balanced. Thing is tracing is not the spawn of all evil but the more it becomes over used the more we see that it is a symptom of the very issues that are killing Marvel and the comic industry overall.

rant over


edit: ok so I said rant over but I just wanted to add this land image cause it is hysterically bad


what even is that

 

Most, if not all of Salvador Larroca's Star Wars work has been coloured by Edgar Delgado. I really enjoyed their work throughout the Darth Vader series, and the back-up story of Doctor Aphra #1. On the other hand, I wasn't a fan of Yoda's Secret War (both story and artwork), and would prefer to see a little less focus on trying to make the big three look exactly like their on-screen incarnations. Compare with a character like Aphra, who Larroca drew numerous times without her being based on a particular real-life person - she looks much more natural and less like she's been transplanted from a screenshot. Kev Walker in the Aphra series has obviously continued this but with his own take on her.

I really like the work done by Mark Brooks (Han Solo mini-series) and both Marco Checchetto and Angel Unzueta (Shattered Empire, The Screaming Citadel, Poe Dameron) - the big three look realistic but not overly so.

 

Oh yeah mark Brooks is soooo good. I had never seen anything he did prior to Han but instantly fell in love with his style. When he draws space is just pops. Reminds me of Jack Kirby in that regard. It is not just a static black background with white dots, it feels so much more vibrant and gorgeous.

 

Also, given that we're all such dedicated fans of Star Wars, when you see an image of Luke that looks exactly like a frame of one of the movies, it's noticeable and a bit distracting. However, the issue with tracing is an underlying problem that ultimately fails the artist in the long term. It's a cheat that works only as long as there is a reference available, and with these stories there's always going to be expressions that are not referenced anywhere. That's one of the reasons why Larroca's characters vary so wildly.

And yeah, the colourist (Delgado, who seems to be Larroca's regular partner) has a style of colouring that exaggerates the inconsistency in the pencils.

With comics, I really don't care about timeliness. I've no idea why there's this push towards inferior artwork, especially when art is the main selling point of the medium.

 

The art was fantastic in the Han Solo mini series. Also love the Darth Vader volume 2 #1 variant by Brooks.

 

Yeah "sequential art" relies on the art not distracting you from the sequence. If it does then it fails.

 

I'm not sure art is the main selling point for Star Wars books. I'm sure there are a lot of people getting these comics simply because they are Star Wars fans and don't bother with anything else but Star Wars. Sure art is going to be a big selling point for people who are genuine comic enthusiasts but when these franchises that originated outside of the comic world tell stories in comic form it is going to bring in a lot of people who don't normally read comics. I would imagine that is why the Star Wars books have sold as well as they have because they have brought in people who normally would not be bothering with comics and get them strictly because they are Star Wars fans.

 

I still stand behind my post from awhile back:

Marvel, maybe Larocca can switch with another artist every 4-5 issues? That way he'll have more time to polish his artwork. I'm not sure if it's the best idea to have him be the only artist on the main series for 20+ issues straight. I mean, I hope I'll be proven wrong and his art will be good. But again, you are freakin' MARVEL, THE largest comic publisher in the world. If you can't afford hiring an additional artist or two to work on a Star Wars comic (arguably the biggest franchise in the world), then no one can.

 

With my analysis, a time jump for Rebel Jail would only put us into 6 to 6.5 months after Yavin. I was including the time jump in the Aphra series; I just didn't mention it because I was tracing the passage of time in the main series. Another month though, to be safe, would only put us at 7ish months. This is still very easily withing my 6 to 9 months post ANH prediction. I definitely thing saying a year or a year and a half is to much based on what we've seen.

 

Maybe. I recently signed up on Twitter, maybe I can ask Gillen or Heather how much time has passed.

Gesendet von meinem SM-J510FN mit Tapatalk

 

That would be cool. In all honesty, the story itself has been fairly vague about the time lapse to allow multiple interpretations. It's not a huge deal, because the stories themselves are the most important part, but it is an interesting topic.

 

Most all longterm fictional stories like to play a little loose with the timeline because that way they are not bound to anything and are free to add in new ideas that they get. I'm sure Marvel is keeping track of the timeline but it also probably isn't something that they are taking for gospel and likely change their mind about it all the time. For instance say we get three more years of stories between ANH and ESB. That won't change rather we are currently nine months into the timeline right now or a year and a half. It just means we will be getting three more years of stories in this series, We probably wouldn't be able to nail down any timeline with much accuracy at all until after the series is over with. As of now we are just giving our own personal theories which may change from being right to wrong from one arc to the next.

 

Just asked him on Twitter. Waiting for a response.

Gesendet von meinem SM-J510FN mit Tapatalk

 

Will be interesting what Gillen says currently since in his Aphra series recently he made an effort to tell us that like three or four months passed within just a few issues.

 

I agree.

 

Honest question, how many of you are really enjoying the Doctor Aphra series? I have to ask, because I just read the recent issue and I just don't get it. This character has so much potential, but the stories being told in her title are pretty bad. This current issue has so many cliches it is hard to read. Every bidder is a cliche. They cannot move on fast enough from the Rur nonsense IMHO.

Spoiler

Why is Aphra wearing a mask? Seriously? It allowed for a few jokes, but overall the whole idea that she needs to "disguise" herself makes no sense.

I really want to love this title. The concept of the character has so much promise. But since this title began, the character has been mired in a poorly conceived story arc that seems to have no end.

 

Hmm...this is only the second story being told in the Aphra title, so it's a little hard to judge just yet. Personally, I loved the first arc with her forcibly working with her father and all the lore that the title teased.

This arc so far, I am enjoying. I will be able to make a better decision once the arc finishes.

Screaming Citadel was a crossover and pretty bad. I don't consider it an Aphra arc though.


Sent from my Ornithopter using The Force

 

The Doctor Aphra series is my favorite SW comic. Love it. I just read issue #10 and thought it was fantastic. I'm a big fan of Gillen's work. Aphra's lines are very clever, humorous and dark. And the art really works well for this material Really enjoyed the variety of bidders and the different ways they try to gain leverage in the negotiation. I also like the fact that anything can happen in the Aphra series because we have no future information about the main characters...their futures are unknown. Feels kind of like the old EU did when Chewie could just unexpectedly bite the dust in a novel. If I had to pick just one SW comic to read, I'd pick Doctor Aphra (with the Darth Vader series running in second).

 

I'm a Jason Aaron fan (love Southern Bastards in particular), but I'm glad that they're getting someone else on the main SW title, since it's good to rotate creative teams every now and then to keep a series fresh. And while I like Kieron Gillen and have no problem with him taking over, I would have loved to see someone new like, say, Ed Brubaker take over.

I can't say I'm the biggest fan of Larroca's art though; he's good at drawing armor and vehicles (which is why the art of the first Vader series didn't bother me much, since its main character is encased in a suit of armor), but is Steve Dillon tier when it comes to faces. I would have definitely preferred Checchetto or even Giuseppe Camuncoli (who's doing a wonderful job on the current Vader series) to do the art.

 

Well, this thread exploded:

• Aaron: Good. I enjoyed Skywalker Strikes a great deal, but the Smuggler's Moon arc was nowhere near as good and boosted by Immonen art. It could be said Cassaday had the same effect for Skywalker Strikes too. Then Vader Down hit. The chatter with all the post-Vader Down arcs has been nowhere near as positive as before it and that's without mentioning the most recent material. So a change was needed.

• Gillen: Even Gillen couldn't make Screaming Citadel fly, which is a rare blip, hopefully he gets back on track.

• Larroca: It's one thing to not like the work of a particular, quite another to take that dislike to the levels exhibited in the last 24 hours here - hyperbole feels inadequate to describe it and that's not good.

• Other artists: Brooks is excellent but he is not a monthly artist, neither, yet, is Chechcchetto. Camuncoli comes closest to being so. Samnee? He's needed for a greater mission - saving Captain America!

 

They're putting Gillen on the main Star Wars series? Maybe I'll give the series another try then, Gillen's a pretty good writer. Haven't liked what Aaron's done with the series much. Gillen's interview sounds interesting (more Rebellion progress?) and that issue cover looks good. I just hope that if they don't have anything useful for Han to do that they leave him out of it (like Screaming Citadel just had him as a zombie or something?).

Whatever happened to Weaver? I remember he drew S.H.I.E.L.D. and some of Infinity, but no idea about anything since then.

 

Weaver's been working on his creator-owned book.

 

If Poe Dameron ends, I need my Phil Noto fix on Star Wars, dangit!!!! He can't leave now! Near the top of my Marvel 2015 run era comic artists.