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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate The US Politics discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 6, 2012.

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  1. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    So the right-wing is somehow less violent than the left because there is theoretically more 'terror' (I can't imagine that the violence is aimed at civilians) violence from a third party? Or are you just suggesting the the right isn't as violent as gangs, but is still more violent than the left?
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    There is a Facebook group that was called Charlotte for Hillary and changed its name to Charlotte Against Trump after the election. The group lived up to its name for awhile, but I'm about to unfollow them as they have turned into Charlotte Against Progressives and are only "Against Trump" in name. All of their space is taken up with campaigning for the conservative Democrat (Clinton supporter) who is primary-ing our progressive Democrat (Sanders supporter) mayor.

    It's like the Democrats don't WANT to win when they spend all their time fighting progressives.
     
    Abadacus, Darth Nerdling, Rew and 2 others like this.
  3. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    k, this is getting appropriated.

    /berniebois/ represent
     
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  4. grd4

    grd4 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2013
    anakinfan: Based on everything that has transpired both before the election and afterwards, it's obvious that the Democratic leadership would rather have their party continue to suffer defeat upon defeat than win (or make inroads) with progressives. It's not difficult to ascertain why: New Deal-styled liberalism can not coexist with Third-Way corporatism; either the latter is dispelled or the Democratic Party continues its slide into Reagan-era Republicanism.

    Read Thomas Franks's "Listen Liberal!" to understand what we're up against.
     
  5. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011

    No
     
  6. grd4

    grd4 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Speaking of Sanders, here's his response to Clinton's barbs.

    (excerpt)

    Speaking to The Hill, Sanders insisted he is not interested in relitigating the 2016 Democratic primary or "playing the blame game," particularly given the significance of the issues facing the United States in the present moment.

    "I'm working overtime now to see we overturn Trump's decision on DACA, pass a $15-an-hour minimum wage, and next week I'll be offering a Medicare-for-all single-payer system," Sanders said.

    "Right now," Sanders concluded, "it's appropriate to look forward and not backward."

    more at

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2...ton-jabs-sanders-says-hes-focused-issues-hand



    A class-act and fighting progressive.
     
  7. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    His goals are Unrealistic and he knows it. He needs to be Pragmatic and push for slight changes to the status quo that don't upset our plutocrat overlords too much.
     
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  8. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
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  9. grd4

    grd4 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2013
    I've always been bothered by how the Clinton/Obama approach to governing is deemed "pragmatic." How exactly is it pragmatic to enact policies that widens the gulf between the wealthy and destitute while pouring so much of the nation's resources into careless military adventurism?

    Isn't the Sanders approach more pragmatic? Taxing the wealthy, punishing speculators, reducing military interventions, investing in infrastructure, bolstering unions, encouraging living wages and constructing a strong safety net. Doesn't all that act as a steam valve, forestalling societal breakdown while saving capitalism from its worst impulses? Why aren't progressives considered "the adults in the room?"
     
  10. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000
    This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard anyone say, ever. And I have small children.
     
  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    That post sounded like tin foil hats needing tin foil hats.

    All that has been happening here is this:

    --people discussing the emergence of neo-Nazi-ism and white supremacy in light of recent events, and

    --people doing their best to avoid discussion of the emergence of neo-Nazi-ism using what-aboutism tactics and comments that no source used by a left-wing poster here are The Real Truth and The Real Truth is only found in sites further to the right than the Drudge Report, despite no proof anywhere that The Real Truth has ever been reported solely by sites further to the right than the Drudge Report and avoided by sources that have been around and trusted for decades or centuries.

    I know J-Rod says he has never listened to Alex Jones but this really is fake-moon-landing level material.
     
  12. appleseed

    appleseed Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2002
    The problem is the purity tests his followers attach to people are absurd. And now they're going after Kamala Harris, which is ridiculous. They seem kinda sexist to me.

    In a choice between kinda boring and chaotic evil, I'll chose kinda boring every time. But that's just me.
     
    Luke02 likes this.
  13. Luke02

    Luke02 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    @grd-4

    Hardly. Sanders is about one of the most unaccomplished senators in modern history and that is saying something. Acting like a clown screaming nonsense that you cannot back up at all logically is not statesman like...it's buffonary. Personally I think he is a clown act that is only a few steps above Donald Trump since he isn't a crazy racist though if you saw Sanders early proposals on immigration you think he is because his "democrat socialism" does not mesh with a country that is open to immigrants. To have us turn into Sweeden, we need to become a close society because that is how they done it. Small population, essentially no immigration and barely any diversity. Simply put they are all pretty much all educated middle class white people that pay outrageous personal taxes but their corporate tax is next to nothing (Bernie skips that part). Sorry but I don't want to live in a closed society. Living in a free and open society is what makes this country great despite it's flaws.

    And to be blunt, Bernie told the biggest lie on the campaign trail which was the same one that Trump said. "Elect me and all these manufacturing jobs will come out". Utter nonsense! It's a total lie and he knows it yet he kept making it just like his other "seven minute abs" lies "like free health care and college for everyone". Total bullcrap that is just embarrsasing to listen too.

    Oh and btw, his "all rich people are evil" stuff is old too. Sorry but not every rich person is bad and not every poor person is some saint either. I meet some wonderful rich people just like I meet some awful poor people. Life is mostly grey, not black and white unless you are dealing with Nazis, at least that is what I used to think LOL!

    appleseed

    The problem with "purists" is they talk a great game but get nothing done and are often total disasters in running a government. The Democratic Primary in 2016 was one of the most ridicilous things I ever seen in politics. Hillary Clinton for all her flaws is a accomplished politiican. Bernie Sanders is just some old nut from Vermont who just been screaming at the top of his lungs utter nonsense for three decades now which doesn't even begin to compute once you start to look at it. Yet the Democrats just kept flirting with him until it became apparent he didn't have any left behind his pixie dust. Obama at least had some semi pragmatic approaches in his platform hence why taking a chance on him made sense. Bernie though? Pure craziness to put that man in charge of anything important. It was the most ridicilous thing I ever seen in politics except for the Republican Primary that same year and then of course, the presidential election last year. That doesn't even need to explain how insane that truly was.

    Gary Cohn btw out as possible new fed chair over his comments about what happened in Virginia. I feel a resignation letter coming!

    Matt Drudge is not even true "right wing" media.
     
  14. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Er, Sweden is actually a major destination for migrants to the continent particularly for refugees/asylum seekers.

    And Sanders never says that rich people are "bad." He's pretty wealthy himself. Sanders at most represents a movement to institute moderate center-left social democracy at a level many Europeans enjoy, which is hardly anti-rich people. The reaction to him from Clintonite Democrats just shows how right-wing the party leadership really is.
     
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  15. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Let the election go, people. Bigger fish to fry right now.
     
  16. Luke02

    Luke02 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    V-2

    The election just illustrated how the extreme fringes in the Democrat and Republican party are controlling our country. Hillary Clinton was the only serious candidate in the Democratic field (O'Malley is alright but he always felt like a not ready for prime time player) and she needed to fight off an old crazy wild eyed socialist from Vermont whose ideas when crunched were as silly as Trump's. Meanwhile the Republicans only serious candidate was John Kasich and PERHAPS Mario Rubio but both got branded as RINO's and were beaten by a orange hair reality TV host crazy buffoon. We will never solve any of these problems until we stop letting the crazies control everything. Barack Obama was a very traditional liberal (though he wasn't the socialist the crazy right made him out to be, that was utter BULL!) and yet it wasn't nearly enough for the far left just like Mitt Romney and John McCain (two very traditional conservatives) were not nearly enough for the crazy right. Think of this way. If Obama's presidency brought us Donald Trump, I shutter at the thought of what Donald Trump's presidency might bring. We could really get some marxist socialist extreme nutjob in there if we are not careful assuming we survive Trump. That is why I get nervous when I hear people like Corey Booker and quality candidates that could become good presidents shy away with it. Personally I think they saw what Bernie and his minions did to Hillary and want no part of that.

    Everyone is focus on Post Trump Day 1. But I am worried about Post Trump Day 2 and beyond.
     
  17. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    So why are you anti-socialist?
     
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  18. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    What has ever been "good" about Corey Booker save his friendships with private equity titans? We could have just elected Romney for that.
     
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  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Luke02 , as a Sanders supporter, I say that we did not do anything to Clinton, other than call it out and get irritated when she (and many of her supporters) continuously said "But..." when Sanders (and many of us who supported him) brought up great ideas which have worked well in Canada, Australia and various European countries. We were tired of hearing about how our ideas just could not work in America, with the unspoken reasoning of because corporatism, because military industrial complex, and because Clinton for some reason did not want to appear "liberal."

    And I called her campaign out when it chose to ignore multiple areas of the country because it did not have X number of electoral votes or because they were a 'sure thing" apparently.

    I voted for her in the general and given the choices I would do so again, but that does not mean that the right-wing pragmatic Democratic answer is the correct one in my mind.

    V-2 : I think we're still discussing the election to figure out how we can avoid a loss in 2018 and 2020 and avoid another Trump later.
     
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  20. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    I support most of Bernie's goals, but he was incredibly light on the details about how to get from point A to point B. His lack of a deeper level of understanding about breaking up the big banks and the concept of "too big to fail," a signature issue for him, was embarrassing. Though Warren is not as far to the left as Bernie, I prefer her. She has a much deeper understanding of the issues.


    In other news, Trump's short term fix for the debt ceiling and funding the government is hilarious and unsettling to me at the same time. I can't understand how it's beneficial to him except that it gives him satisfaction for putting Ryan and McConnell in their place. Apart from satisfying his emotional needs, I can't see any logic to it. It only weakens his hand. I'm totally fine with that, but it's scary to think the same type of thought process might affect decisions on national security issues like handling North Korea.
     
  21. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000
    Whenever I read/hear about people's confusion with what Trump is doing/has done, I'm reminded of that wonderful cartoon with the passenger who wants the other passengers to agree to him flying the plane because the pilots have 'lost touch' with the people. The Trump narrative is basically the next cartoon in that series with the passenger trying to fly the plane, pressing buttons, pushing levers without knowing what does what or how to keep the plane straight and level.
     
  22. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    That cartoon is an all-timer.
     
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  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    It only misses the part where flight schools are run by elitists and flight instruction manuals are fake news propogaded by George Soros.
     
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  24. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2008
    This may be correct for the GOP, but this wrong when it comes to the Democrats. The fringe left, like always is completely powerless. The average Bernie supporter is about as left as the average Clinton supporter. I mean 93% of Bernie's supporters ended up voting for Clinton in the election.

    Hell, the primary is pretty much set up to squash fringe candidates from winning.:p

    BTW, if you need anymore proof that this is turning into a cult.

     
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  25. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I for one hate that analogy (I'm sure people are shocked). An airplane is a machine. It is operated only one way, and a person can be trained to more-or-less do it perfectly. This is not the case with government and politics, which are malleable and are not machines in any meaningful sense of the word. The United States can be "operated" in radically different ways. A better analogy would be the airline executives, who raise ticket prices, charge for every piece of luggage, skimp on maintenance and pay for their employees as much as possible, cram passengers into ever-shrinking spaces, and then wonder why people think they're pieces of **** and want pretty much anyone else to be in charge.
     
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