Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

Cue the First Order Super-Fast Drive.....

 

Hyper Hyperdrive

 

Am I allowed to point out the applicability or must I simply cry in the corner?

 

I appreciate all the concern for the wellbeing of the New Republic, but here's the thing- it's can be restored. As I've pointed out time and again in this very thread, while the loss of Hosnian Prime was a huge blow (Senate killed, main fleet decimated), the NEW REPUBLIC is more than it's federal structure. It's members, all of the remotely deployed ships, squadrons, bases, outposts, etc- all these still exist. It's leaderless at the moment and in shock, but that can change too.

I imagine that the Resistance is going to swell in size due to these vary entities now rallying to it's side. Just as the Rebel Alliance was devoted to restoring the Republic, the Resistance is committed to preserving the New Republic. The member worlds and surviving military units of the New Republic will be in need of leadership. Who better to rally them than Leia Organa, princess, senator, Rebel, and general? Who better to lead them into battle than Ackbar, victor of Endor, Kuat, and Jakku?

The Sequel Trilogy started with the destruction of the New Republic GOVERNMENT, I fully expect it to end with the restoration of said government.

--Adm. Nick

 

Wait so immediately prior to the First Order secession are there any Imperial remnants besides nostalslgic worlds, terrorist groups and militias?

Oh I assumed that. I was just putting out what I thought the situation was out there in order to get any corrections, etc.

 

There are no confirmed Imperial remnants by the time of Bloodline, though I believe it's safe to assume that some Imperials fought on for a bit post-Jakku. The Empire was dissolved by the Concordance, plus the majority of the Imperial Starfleet was lost between Endor and Jakku or absconded with by the proto-First Order into the Unknown Regions.

Former Imperial worlds paid reparations and the old Empire's remnants "withered away".

--Adm. Nick

 

Speaking of Retcons, has Armand Isard been retconned away by now?

 

Thanks, so two questions:

1) are there no known Imperial remnants by 28 ABY to the Republic or to us (the reader/viewer)?
2) is it possible the worlds that paid reparations are those remnants that broke away from the Empire post-Endor, or are Republic worlds in the Core paying reparations?

 

There are no known Imperial remnants by 28 ABY. The Empire is spoken of as a distant memory, which reinforces the idea that any remnants that may have fought on post-Concordance withered away quickly.

RE: Reparations, we frankly don't know enough about them yet. It unclear if the reparations are coming from the coffers of former Imperial governors and officers or whether certain worlds fully dedicated to the Empire paid them directly. In the new canon, the Empire's grip on the Galaxy is far weaker and more based on force than any overt loyalty. This was different in the old Expanded Universe. I don't see the New Republic punishing all of Kuat, for example. I DO see Imperial governors and corporations that developed weapons for the Empire paying the largest reparations.

Corporations like KDY and Sienar benefited the most from Imperial rule and their weapons were used to conquer and terrorize, so it's possible that there would be widespread support among the galactic populace for them to pay some reparations.

Regardless, a lot of this is just speculation at this point. I'm hoping we learn more as the new canon unfolds.

--Adm. Nick

 

AdmiralNick22, well that's good. I like the idea that the First Order is the last remnant that holds any real power or territory, with everything else being rag-tag organisations with no territoy that the Republic barely notices. Hopefully the FO doesn't hold too much territory in known space to make them much more like an appeased dark Rebellion.

Regarding the Republic, I hope it is just incapacitated and not completely destroyed, with the remnants joining the Resistance in order to be under one command structure (perhaps Holdo is a Republic Admiral).

 

By the time of TFA, there is a distinct territory in the Known Galaxy that is controlled by the First Order. But it is described as small and isolated in the upper regions of the Galaxy. The majority of their holdings and/or resources come from the Unknown Regions. It's also unclear as to how many Centrist worlds actually defected and whether they outright join the First Order or become a separate government that is aligned to them.

In short- we know some stuff, but need clarification. Especially because some early stuff about the FO that came out pre-TFA doesn't mesh well with current sources. Which can be forgiven, as they were still fleshing out the story.

--Adm. Nick

 

I can't help but suspect, if it happens, it'll be in the most superficial way possible, with the full story being covered by a book.

 

Which is totally fine and with precedent. The establishment of the New Republic happened "off screen", so can the "restoration".

--Adm. Nick

 

AdmiralNick22 all the while the FO has small known space holdings and isn't the equal is size and scope of the New Republic, then it's good news.

It probably won't be address at the end of IX, but rather implied. Much in the same me as ROTJ never addressed the return of the Republic.

 

I'm hoping it's larger.



Then again, I hope they ditch the "First Order is a minor threat" business.

 

Apart from the fact that having little holdings in known space makes them more like an anti-Rebellion, if the Republic knows that they have a massive territory, and thus massive resources, it makes their appeasement policy seem utterly ridiculous. An appeasement policy only makes sense if you know if it comes to war you have the resources to match your enemy. Given that the Republic knows that the First Order isn't abiding by the Concordance, if the FO also had massive known resources any appeasement seems like a suicide policy. It can only make sense if the FO only has small holdings in known space and massive holdings in Unknown space.

 

I want the FO to be a threat- but still small. Think Thrawn's Empire. Numerically smaller but still a grave threat. It honestly makes them more intimidating. Plus the whole "Big bad guys, small good guys" thing is overused. Look at it this way.
PT - Symetric war.
OT - Enemies outnumber heroes.
ST - Heroes outnumber enemies.
Let's try and keep it fresh. The FO can be a reverse Alliance. The NR can feel paranoid and stalked. This can provide an interesting tone. If this was The Dark Knight the NR would be Gotham, FO would be the Joker and the Resistance would be Batman, working outside the law.

 

There's nothing remotely about the First Order which indicates they're an anti-Rebellion given Finn's reaction to the way the Republic has "no chance" against them, Starkiller Base, and the fact they have massive dreadnoughts. Star Wars might have gone with a fight against terrorists but that's not what the First Order seems to be.

It seems more revitalized Russia than North Korea.

I'm fairly sure the idea behind Villechem's appeasement policy is the fact he wants to AVOID war in general. It's not military strategy based but just an attempt to keep another Galactic Civil War from happening. I suspect, like Chancellor Valorum, we're going to find out he WASN'T a complete fool as he's meeting with Princess Leia's sidekick in private but the simple fact is that he seems very much on the peacenik side of things.

Mind you, I am hoping things evolve into a "Sith Empire vs. Old Republic" stalemate versus the whole, "There's an Imperial Remnant of 8 sectors and actually 200 Sectors of Thrawn-controlled territory" because that's needlessly complicated.

 

Obviously, but it's important the Galaxy doesn't know that. They believe that they are an anti-Rebellion, otherwise the policy of the New Republic seems like a parody.

 

Updated.

My view is the fact I don't think the New Republic IN GENERAL viewed the First Order as an enemy versus a threat. Which is a big difference. I think we're likely to go with the idea the New Republic assumed the First Order was not a group which wanted to conquer the galaxy or anything so ridiculous but just was a militaristic foreign power which did the occasional bit of saber rattling but had, overall, had no interest in war.

Which may make them terminally stupid but is understandable if they're a secessionist group.

 

The way I understand it the NR/Resistance don't know the FO is breaking the terms of the Concordance, and they don't realize just how powerful it is since it's strength is hidden in the Unknown Regions. Prior to TFA the two sides are in a bit of a Cold War. Most of the NR is so desperate for peace they remain willfully ignorant of the threat the FO possesses, calling Leia a "warmonger". Those who disagree secretly fund the Resistance.

So, is the First Order an "Anti-Rebellion", aka, is it the underdog? It's hard to tell. Sure we only see one Star Destroyer in TFA, but we only saw 3 in ANH, so there's no way to tell how large its military is. We know that the New Republic's territory and military were not as large as they were under the Old Republic or the Empire. We know that the First Order secretly controls the Unknown Regions. But it also has some territory in the Known Galaxy. The use of the phrase "trans hydian boderlands" implies this territory is similar to that of the Legends Imperial Remnant (see below, spoilered for length). The FO may control other Centrist worlds as well, including some Core Worlds.

Spoiler

My guess? Prior to TFA, the First Order is seen by the New Republic as being on the level of other minor powers such as Hutt Space or the Corporate Sector. But after the destruction of Hosnian Prime and the New Republic Fleet, the First Order reveals its massive hidden forces, and we'll once again go into "large group of bad guys vs small group of plucky under dogs" territory.

 

Which will all be destroyed by a single proton torpedo because goddamn, is Poe one hell of a pilot.