Lit Legacy of the Force or Fate of the Jedi?

Darth Droid Tenel Ka survives the entire lot.
She survives Invincible, and goes on to have some secondary appearances in FOTJ, as leader of the Hapes Consortium and friend to the Solos.

I'll grant my example above was an extreme one for LOTF - but I guess my point was that it relentlessly forced through a plot that many on these forums have criticized as implausible and unexciting.
Of course, there are redeemable factors. I almost think it got better as it went on. I quite enjoy Inferno as a stand alone.

 

The Jedi's Fate was in doubt. After the way their leader played kingmaker in the Second Galactic Civil War, their role in the government was unclear.

Do the Jedi serve the Galactic Alliance or are they it's watchdog? They cannot be both.

In the end, the Lost Tribe and Abeloth force the Jedi to realize that they don't exist to serve any one government. The Force suffuses all life, across the myriad star systems. Life is not limited by governmental boundaries and neither should the Jedi Order.

FOTJ ends with the Jedi realizing that their role is to be a candle of light in the darkness. To bring light not just to Galactic Alliance member worlds but to all planets, regardless of wealth, location and alignment.

The Fate of the Jedi is to bring light to all worlds and peoples.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

If that was the Jedi's 'fate', then what was the Force's 'legacy'?

 

I mean lotf is better but only, as others have said, by virtue of fotj being such an utter abortion. at least the broadest strokes of lotf are salvageable though; the 'true canon' i worked out to have some closure keeps most of the main beats intact whereas basically nothing of FotJ is worth keeping. it's so bad it almost makes TFA look good in comparison.

 

Honestly, if they had cut everything else out, and compressed the 'Luke and Ben go traveling' into a trilogy, it would have been fantastic, TTT level stuff.

 

I want to know more about Abeloth's previous escapes

 

This was not an easy vote for me, because both of these series are perfect examples of a handful of really awesome moments mixed among osik.

And I mean a LOT of osik. Yavin Prime size osik.

Tbf, the train wreck had started 5 years earlier IU with the Jedi Council not collectively sitting on Luke and having Cilghal drug him to the gills.

(Power-grabbing Skywalker? How anyone does not pull all the alarms and get the ysalamir ASAP is beyond me. It's just )

(And Tenel Ka naming Jacen as her consort-royal, and someone else - sane - teaching Ben. Bam. Problems mostly solved.

But this isn't about the fiasco that was DNT. This is about the fiasco that continued on from DNT.

Points of light in LOTF? Ben on Ziost. Ben redeeming Tahiri. H/L meeting Allana.

Points of light in FOTJ? The Sith Tribe before Abeloth. Ben/Vestara before Ascension.

And ... that's it. Seriously. The rest? Osik.

Mara vs. Lumiya? Yeah, OK, good Sith hunting. Lumiya teaching a broken, confused Force-addict with a bad prequel imitation? No, bad Sith hunting.

And when your BBEG for the next 9 book series is a blatant homage to a D and D aberration that slimes people before enslaving them ... yyyeahhhh. Bad.

I only gave the to LOTF because Ben Skywalker managed to pull his humanity out of the fire before it all wrapped up.

 

Legacy of the Force some how managed to mangle both the original themes of OT Star Wars (do not give up on your dark side family member, sometimes family love can redeem evil) while also destroying any advancement in moral relativism or moral development introduced in the EU and Prequels (only Sith deal in absolutes?)

 

I'm one of the few who really enjoyed both. Contrary to what we're seeing here, there are a lot of LOTF/FOTJ fans.

I am with the consensus in that I did like LOTF better. Also a fan of the Mando stuff in LOTF. This series pulled me back into reading SW books after a pretty long hiatus, sans the prequel novelizations. NJO was not keeping my interest at the time, plus grad school and marriage somewhere in there pulled my interests and time in other directions.

I remember being really surprised after being pulled in by LOTF to come back to the TFN boards and see such a negative reaction.

That being said, there were fans that would post, and they would just be crucified--so they stopped posting. Don't blame them. Just wanted to discussed things they liked...and instead they were belittled for what they enjoyed.

Some similarities in way to the anti-new canon peeps. But there's a difference in wanting to talk about something you love and something you love to hate.

The other differences go something like:

I like am enjoying LOTF: response from most: **** you. You're stupid for what you like.

The new Cannon and TFA sucks. **** you if you disagree. You're stupid for liking something that clearly sucks. Stop oppressing me for being so right. Also...it's bull**** they ended Legends despite that I didn't like anything in Legends since about 2005.


Sent from my Moto X-Wing

 

have you considered that maybe you just have terrible taste

 

The Legacy of the Force is that of its offspring, Anakin Skywalker. Anakin's legacy is his heirs and descendants.

Jacen Solo follows in his grandfather's footsteps and becomes another Sith Lord. He who had everything right in front of him gives it all up for a faint vision of a loved one's death and the honeyed lies of a Sith manipulator.

Only Caedus is weaker than his grandfather ever was. He falls into darkness and is never redeemed. He dies a monster. The other heir of Anakin Skywalker follows his other path.

Ben Skywalker stumbles into darkness and dwells in it for a time. But he cannot abide in the Dark and the love of his parents is a candle in the blackness that keeps the darkness at bay and guides Ben out of the shadows and back into the Light.

In a way, Ben Skywalker is the Force's real legacy. Jacen Solo didn't become what he was supposed to be. But his cousin did.

 

Careful, that sounds like bullying (and I hate bullies).

 

Have you?

I know it's hard for some people to grasp that their **** stinks too.

How nice for you that yours doesn't. Is it an air freshener or something in your diet?

Sent from my Moto X-Wing

 

Gotta edit the profanity out

 

My headcanon sort of imagined that she, as a sort of harbinger of chaos, would be known under different names by different societies.

I'm genuinely surprised they didn't retcon some of the big 'disasters' in EU history to be her responsibility. They hinted at it in Apocalypse, but it was just an elusive reference by Thuruht.

You know, we all say we hate everything post-TUF - but we're eager to talk/discuss it so often - we're getting enjoyment one way or another.

 

I have to reluctantly give FOTJ some credit --- it did have a lot less of this:





I remember reading somewhere that Denning created that almost-Gamorrean Jedi for his first FOTJ book (Book 3), but the character ended up first appearing in Golden's first book (Book 2). That incredibly basic level of cooperation is something that was completely absent from LOTF, a series where the three authors all had competing agendas. I mean... remember when Turr Phennir showed up at the end of Exile as the new head of the Confederation? Sure seemed like he was going to have a big role in the rest of the series. But then...



Wahh, wahhhhhhhhhhhh.

Cha Niathal was basically the only new character that all three authors used. I remember Sue Rostoni saying once on the sw.com forums that she felt that the continuity in LOTF was tighter than it had been in the NJO. I did... I did not let her get away with that one.

 

Your images don't work.

 

Damn. K the first one was Denjax Teppler's Appearances section from Wookieepedia, the second was a Traviss character's appearances section and the third was Turr Phennir's. Authors didn't share characters. Phennir only showed up once again after Exile and it was in Fury.

 

Fury was the last time that the Confederation-GA War actually got a damn. Revelation was pretty much Fondor was on its own against the GA-IR fleets and in the end they fell apart. Invincible was pretty much Mando-IR-Jedi/Hapan/Wookiee battles. We get off-screen mention that Bwua'tu (all must all praise the idiot whose arrogance cost him his flagship in the Dark Nest series and apparently the only Bothan who was loyal to the GA) defeated Niathal, Daala, Phennir and just about everyone else while Atoko (a mentioned only guy/woman who we never heard from again) poisoned Mandalore (the result of the war between writers Traviss and Denning that went on even after the series ended).

 

I do remember that, when I was finally reading LOTF, I was certain that the Vong were going to join the war on Jacen's side, that Nas Choka was going to appear in Fury or Invincible, because they couldn't have just forgot that the Vong existed and had been trouncing warfleets like a decade ago. But nooooo

Seriously, there are some kernels of a great story in LOTF. We just never saw it.

 

I largely enjoyed LotF at the time of reading because I had yet to read the NJO and, as such, the foundational premise being abject nonsense wasn't really a factor. I only wholeheartedly turned against the series after it killed off Caedus. I had thought the whole point was to create a new and recurring Skywalker-tier threat for our heroes. When it didn't, I was left wondering what the point of it all was. Why kill off the sole remaining Solo son for a story like this? It made no sense.

Later, of course, I realised that the entire point had been setting up a poorly constructed straw Vergere to knock down.

FotJ, on the other hand, was the first SW series I was unable to finish. It did, however, make me far more amenable to the reboot than I would have otherwise been.

 

NJO and LOTF pretty much ****ed on the Skywalker-Solo legacy by pretty much making it that despite everything Luke, Leia and Han had done for the galaxy they were treated with mistrust and power hungry mania.

Losing Anakin and then Jacen left the Solos without anyone to carry on the name since Allana is Hapan (I actually didn't much enjoy the 'romance' between Jacen and Tenel Ka either) and Jaina was going to marry Jagged Fel or Zekk or even Kyp Durron if Denning had had his way.

What is it about the Solos having no grandsons?!

Then poor Tahiri going through the ringer as well (as if she hadn't been through enough).

Nevertheless, I did enjoy LOTF, just wishes it ended better.

 

One thing I did like about LOTF was that was got a powerful, ruthless and practical Luke Skywalker. On the level of Mace Windu and Yoda.

That first fight with Caedus on the Anakin Solo comes to mind, where Luke was the upper hand and is advancing on a trapped Jacen with the intent to finish him.


"Luke closed to within two meters without saying a word. What point would there have been? Jacen wasn't going to surrender, and Luke wouldn't have believed him if he offered. It was better to attack quickly, while he still had the advantage. He brought his lightsaber up to strike."

The only reason Luke doesn't deliver the killing blow here is because Ben has an emotional outburst and demands the right to kill Jacen himself. Which of course Luke wasn't going to allow. So Jacen gets a few moments to free himself and continue the fight for a bit longer.

But I liked the idea that Luke was going to finish Jacen off, then and there. That he was willing to kill his own nephew after his descent into evil. Because he honestly should have. As the Jedi Grand Master he had a responsibility to the Galaxy to stop his fallen Jedi from spreading chaos and death across the stars.

 

Wow now that you mention I remember how dumb all of that is. Why isn't Tenal Ka relevant in the posible redemption/attempt to redeem Jacen Solo? Why did the writers decide it made more sesne to have Allana hangout with Han and Leia all the time instead of being with her surviving parent? For that matter Allana is basically not affected by having a father who became a Sith Lord.