CT Luke's X-Wing pilot helmet - continuity error in ROTJ

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For the ROJ Tatooine departure scene the 4-foot X-Wing had been built with a pilot figure that could move its head (like the snowspeeder models in ESB). The idea was to show the X-Wing in space, get closer with the camera and then cut to Mark Hamill in the cockpit. Alas, that VFX scene didn't make it into the film, still we had the 4-footer in many exhibits although it was never used in any SW film.

 

Early form of animatronics.

 

It's not the same helmet. It may have scratches in the same areas (as you would expect, being worn by the same person). But not unique or identical scratches. The chinstraps, padding and visor are all clearly different.

 

If you look closely, many of the scratches match - there are just additional scratches.

Which makes sense, if Luke has spent the 6 to 9 months between TESB and ROTJ using the same helmet, and replacing the bits of the helmet that need replacing.

Out-of-universe, they probably took the same "helmet prop" and replaced a few bits that were in need of replacing. Perhaps the visor had gotten a big scratch, or the padding had gotten sweat-soaked.

If you look at Wedge at Hoth, Yavin, and Endor - you'd probably see the same thing - basic helmet is the same but the features on the helmet chassis vary. Makes sense to reuse the basic prop, even if things on it might need slight changes.

 

Every pair of shoes I've ever owned has acquired scuffs, marks and wear in the same places. Some more than others.

The same applies to identical crash helmets worn by the same person in the same environment. They will all wear in the same places because they are put the exact same use.

It is the same prop helmet, of course. But in universe, Luke in ROTJ isn't wearing the helmet that he lost on Bespin.

 

Why not? If the Empire hasn't gotten round to impounding it, it makes sense that Luke would want to retrieve his ship (and helmet).

 

What, from the Bespin impound?

Maybe he retrieved his saber from Bespin at the same time.

 

In the Legendsverse (Marvel Star Wars) Luke and Lando went back to Bespin in between TESB and ROTJ.

In the context of the newcanon - maybe he did get his saber back - and handed it over to Maz Kanata.

 

i just have to say the last time i watched ROTJ i noticed the chinstrap with the black strap going through it and thought it looked so out of place. like the scavenged it off a peewee football league team

 

ANH and Rogue One have the same "black chin strap going all the way across" that ROTJ does. Only at the Battle of Hoth, are the chin straps done differently.

 

Another poster paved the way for a feasible rationalization, i.e. after his arrival in Cloud City Luke first went to see if the Falcon was okay (they would have all escaped together with the Falcon) and left his pilot helmet there (knowing he would have to leave his X-Wing behind):

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/plot-holes-in-the-ct.50010529/page-28#post-54860933

So the seemingly continuity error wouldn't actually be one, quite the contrary.

 

I was re-watching the ROTJ deleted scenes and noticed in the first part of the sandstorm scene, there's a Y-Wing visible, but then Luke walks over to a different area after the Falcon takes off and hops into a previously invisible X-Wing. Strange. (The X-Wing, but not the Y-Wing, is shown next to the Falcon in the matte painting from the earlier deleted scene where Luke gives R2-D2 his lightsaber.)

The sandstorm scene also provides a glimpse of the Millennium Falcon's exterior lighting. Mostly white, but with red lights above the boarding ramp (possibly all around the two lifepods on the sides, it's unclear from the Blu-ray footage), and red lights as well arranged in a ring about the cockpit. Maybe this was meant as a suggestion of a cockpit that could be ejected from the rest of the ship, as an additional lifepod? That would've provided one way for Lando to survive blowing up the Death Star while losing the Falcon, though it might contradict the other deleted scene of Rebel troops in the Falcon corridors waving guns around as if repelling Imperial boarders.

 

While you're doing this research, read the opening lines of Khan's novelization and derive if Leia is or is not the pilot of the Y-Wing. I'm just curious to see what your result is. It's a simple logic problem if one uses a simple assumption. You can make arguments for or against 3PO as reliable narrator, but depending on how you do that, make sure you account for 3PO as reliable narrator at the beginning of SW77. Also make a judgement if necessary on 3PO's relative capacity to be deceived.

 

I've been thinking about it some more, and Leia was probably the pilot of the Y-Wing, with Threepio as co-pilot. If for no other reason than Luke's X-Wing fighter can't fit them, and Lando and Chewbacca didn't take them aboard the Falcon when they left the Rebel fleet in ESB (presumably heading directly for Jabba's: "I'll see you on Tatooine").

Threepio's line to Artoo in the opening, "Lando Calrissan and poor Chewbacca never returned from this awful place", suggests he was kept in the dark about anything significant that happened since Lando & Chewie left the Rebels in the previous film. The novelization omits the mention of Chewbacca from this line, probably because it doesn't make sense if Chewie's still hanging around with Leia waiting to enact the Boushh/prisoner gambit.

 

I love how the 4 foot X-Wing model payed homage to the Kenner toy with three stripes instead of 5.

 

THREEPIO
Of course I'm worried. And you should be, too. Lando Calrissian and
poor Chewbacca never returned from this awful place.

If 3PO was a fully informed narrator, and a reliable narrator, and his statement was fact, then Chewbacca never exited a scope that was related to Tatooine or Jabba's sphere of influence.

For Chewbacca then to be revealed during the Boushh gambit, now inside Jabba's sphere of influence, and carry a high value as the associate of Han Solo, requires that Chewy stayed outside of Jabba's knowledge for the duration between ESB and opening ROTJ. Can the two be reconciled. Chewy could have stayed near to Jabba's sphere but outside his knowledge by hunkering down at some local or regional distance and communicating with Lando by devious means. Waiting for Lando to be emplaced high enough or in such and such a critical position to be meaningful. Then Chewy signals. Then Leia and Luke arrive at the same or different times. The deleted scenes show 3PO and R2 with Luke, so, one can never be omniscient with how the full gambit was going to work. Unless one likes the idea that Leia intended to get as close to Jabba as possible. That's a 'just so' story in my estimation, but anyway.

If 3PO was a reliable narrator, but a wrongly informed one, then what accounts for the Y-Wing.

#1. Lando and Chewy and Falcon scout out the situation and then Lando returns in the Y-Wing, and Chewy and Leia return in the Falcon, and Luke arrives in his X-Wing. R2 could have been with Luke; 3PO could have been with the Falcon. This is the popular conception.

A problem that arises immediately is that for 3PO to be wrongly informed, or deceived about the whereabouts of Chewy and Lando, requires that 3PO not know that Chewy shall imminently perform to be a prisoner in the Boushh gambit. So how could 3PO have said what he said at the doors of Jabba's palace if he actually knew that Chewy was even now deep into planning the Boushh gambit. For 3PO's words to mean anything, he cannot know that Chewy is involved with Leia. That requires that deceived 3PO arrived not on the Falcon. 3PO does possess powers of deception, as seen when he is dissembling before Luke in SW77 on who the hologram is. But what cannot be deception is that 3PO Thinks that Chewy is not in league presently or imminently with Leia or Luke. 3PO is not lying to the omniscient listener. And one other detail. For it to mean much that “Chewbacca and Lando never returned”, it has to be that 3PO would be suspicious of that knowledge if he clapped eyes on the Falcon, itself, even if he did not see Chewy or Lando. So if 3PO sees the Falcon, then he should know that Chewy is nearby, or, came back.

#2. Lando and Chewy visit Tatooine, Lando is dropped off to start his infiltration, Chewy withdraws. Then Chewy later returns to Tatooine with the Falcon, and Luke with the X-Wing. That leaves R2 and 3PO and Leia. R2 and Luke and X-Wing would normally be associated and come as a set. The X-Wing is a single seater, so, 3PO cannot have been on the X-Wing while Luke was using it. So:

1. Did 3PO fly the Y-Wing with Leia in gunner position?
2. Did Leia fly the Y-Wing with 3PO in gunner position?
3. Did 3PO fly the Y-Wing alone with Leia on the Falcon? (Chewy on Falcon)
4. Did Leia fly the Y-Wing alone with 3PO on the Falcon? (Chewy on Falcon)
5. Did 3PO fly the Y-Wing with Chewy in gunner position?
6. Did Leia fly the Y-Wing with Chewy in gunner position?
7. Did Chewy fly the Y-Wing with 3PO in gunner position?
8. Did Chewy fly the Y-Wing with Leia in gunner position?
9. Did Chewy fly the Y-Wing alone with 3PO on the Falcon? (same effect as #10)
10. Did Chewy fly the Y-Wing alone with Leia on the Falcon? (same effect as #9)


We don't commonly associate 3PO being a pilot. 3PO objects to R2 opening up an escape pod on the basis of permissions. They do not have access, not, they do not know how to use it. But then he asks R2, Are you sure this thing is safe? So maybe 3PO is not the pilot that R2 is. Later, Luke tells 3PO to hit the accelerator. So maybe 3PO doesn't mind driving low ground hugging vehicles. Later 3PO says he hates space travel. We can however point to plenty of evidence that 3PO, without external assistance, is not going to easily get into confined spaces or navigate significant heights. R2 can climb stairs, maybe 3PO can get into a landspeeder. 3PO did hunker down into a small form to get into the escape pod. But on balance, is it sensible to see 3PO scaling a ladder and getting into the gunner position of a Y-Wing? How about the Y-Wing cockpit? Compare that to how sensible it is for 3PO to have gotten into the Falcon which has a ramp. In terms of total likeliness, 3PO being in the Y-Wing is lowest.

As far as likelihood relating to 3PO’s accessibility, that leaves:

4. Did Leia fly the Y-Wing alone with 3PO on the Falcon? (Chewy on Falcon, default to pilot)
6. Did Leia fly the Y-Wing with Chewy in gunner position?
8. Did Chewy fly the Y-Wing with Leia in gunner position?
9. Did Chewy fly the Y-Wing alone with 3PO on the Falcon? (same effect as #10)
10. Did Chewy fly the Y-Wing alone with Leia on the Falcon? (same effect as #9)

As far as 3PO not being able to know about Chewy, which includes the Falcon, that leaves:

1. Did 3PO fly the Y-Wing with Leia in gunner position?
2. Did Leia fly the Y-Wing with 3PO in gunner position?
3. Did 3PO fly the Y-Wing alone with Leia on the Falcon? (Chewy on Falcon)

There is no overlap that respects likelihood of 3PO’s accessibility.
Treating as paramount the logic of what 3PO said himself about whereabouts of Chewy and Lando (and by inference the Falcon), 3PO was on the Y-Wing. (He could not have been on the X-Wing.)

Now, subordinate to that logic, adding in what we know about about 3PO’s hate of space flight, and limited accessibility in terms of heights and egress, what remains is that 3PO was in the pilot’s chair or the gunner’s chair, of the Y-Wing. If he was in the gunner’s chair, harder to get to, it was not piloted by Chewy but by Leia. If he was the pilot, less to his liking, then Leia may or may not have been in the gunner’s chair.

Of the solutions made available by logic, there is one logical solution that has more likelihood than any other.

Did 3PO get into the landspeeder *by himself? not as likely as Luke helping him. It is more likely that 3PO got into the Y-Wing with help (and got out of it with help) than that he got into it himself and got out of it himself. Now we are down to:

1. Did 3PO fly the Y-Wing with Leia in gunner position?
2. Did Leia fly the Y-Wing with 3PO in gunner position?

Of these two applicants, who has more total demonstrated technical acumen and broader range of skill sets? I could go on a litany of the skills demonstrated by one of these, over the course of the OT. An interesting thing that comes out of a cold dispassionate analysis of this set up is the following.

It is assumed at large that Lando flew the Y-Wing. But it must be that 3PO arrived in the Y-Wing, because he cannot have arrived in the X-Wing, and he cannot have seen the Falcon, or he would have known that Chewy returned from ‘this place’. So why is it assumed that Lando, and not someone else, flew the Y-Wing? Because it is assumed.

There is no basis for that assumption. Rather, there is logical basis for the conclusion that Lando did Not fly the Y-Wing. Rather, 3PO came to Tatooine via the Y-Wing. And there is a preponderance of evidence, admittedly not beyond the shadow of a doubt, that Leia was in the Y-Wing with him. There is a preponderance of evidence, again, admittedly not beyond the shadow of a doubt, that of those two configurations it is the case that Leia piloted the Y-Wing. Leia's preponderance of demonstrated skill outweigh's 3PO's lower degree of accessibility. The strain of this image is not much greater than the strain of the image of R2 debarking from the X-Wing in the swamp. How did he do that? Well, he did it.

Shoot this down, anyone, using evidence.

 

It's kinda funny. When Han talks about "that old crate", I thought he was referring to the Y-Wing.

Also, Luke throws his ladder away when he takes off.

Before this, I had forgotten about the kiss on the Falcon after they rescued Luke.

 

Leia is a net source of platonic pecks. Platonic pecks don't carry 50 amp at 400 volts. There are many examples of Leia's platonic pecks throughout the corpus of vintage media. Something that is uncomfortable arises in one of the last video interviews of Carrie Fisher (someone crashed her house), that points the needle of a compass in a direction, and not in a different direction. And the direction that that needle points explains a great many things about how career paths unrolled, and how the sequel trilogy catered to 'some' actors, and not in any way, to others.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

New thought: the sandstorm scene was deleted relatively early, but the scene where Luke gives his new lightsaber to Artoo was filmed in pickups during post-production. So maybe the sandstorm was cut early enough that the matte painting of the outside of Luke's cave didn't need to match the ships on-set from the earlier scene.

That would explain the absence of the Y-Wing. It's also consistent with ILM having time to build a new X-Wing model for an (unused) establishing shot in the space-flight scene that replaced the sandstorm sequence.

Y. Or Y not.

 

2:05 is the matte painting of just the X-Wing and Falcon, with 3PO, R2 and Luke in the same context. The X-Wing is parked off the Falcon starboard bow.
3:19 is the Elstree studio set with the Y-Wing parked on the Falcon's starboard. The X-Wing from 2:05, if you could see it through the sandstorm, would be in front of the Y-Wing.
4:25 we see Luke heading downstage stage right, *behind the Y-Wing. So without 2:05 the putative X-Wing is parked *behind the Y-Wing. But With 2:05 Luke must have to head that way to pick up some power converters or coaxium to make his X-Wing go. And then he doubles back, past the Y-Wing, to get to it.

With this evidence folded in, it has to be that 3PO came with R2 and Luke in the X-Wing, since that is the only other ship than the Falcon. 3PO cannot have come in the Falcon with Chewy because then he would not say that Chewy had never returned from this place. That means 3PO had to double up in some cramped cargo hold of the X-Wing, or get taken apart and stuffed under the seat and behind the headrest. Possibly Luke removed his subwoofer or ejection seat. Many not impossible ways to get 3PO to Tatooine on the X-Wing if it must be done that way.

Then Leia came later in the Y-Wing and parked behind the X-Wing and to the left of the Falcon.
So this evidence on top of the draft evidence checkmates into baseless supposition, presumption, and assumption, that Lando had anything to do with that Y-Wing. Or to speak slowly, if Lando is who was responsible for flying that Y-Wing to Tatooine, and Lando was in the process of being embedded in Jabba's ranks, then how was the Y-Wing missing when Luke was finishing up his light saber but then also present when everyone headed back to the ships? It cannot have been Lando that flew that to Tatooine. It cannot have been 3PO who flew it to Tatooine, for, it is not present in the matte painting. It cannot have been Chewy unless one assigns that 3PO has been lied to.

Likewise, if Chewy did just fly the Falcon to Tatooine just head of the X-Wing, such that its engines are still warm to the touch when Luke sets down, and Chewy pulls the curtains shut, hangs out on the Falcon playing Freecell and eating Cheetos while the X-Wing lands and 3PO opines that Chewy and Lando never returned from this place, it still cannot be Chewy or Lando that flew the Y-Wing to Tatooine. It has to be Leia.

The only daft way that it is remotely possible for Leia to have not been the one to fly the Y-Wing is if Chewy and Lando came to Tatooine, left the Falcon where it landed, Lando went to Jabba, and Chewy found another ride off Tatooine back to Leia (Poe did similar), but had to carefully never be seen by 3PO, and to what ridiculous end of simply keeping a droid in the dark of a larger plan. That could allow that it was Chewy and Leia that came to Tatooine in the Y-Wing, and perhaps Chewy did the driving because he requires more legroom.