Fanclub The Two Canon Club. Accepting 2 versions of SW.

Ignore the numbering. Copy and pasted some stuff and didn't really transfer over well. Quite a long list.

Spoiler

1. OOT
2. OT SE
3. OT DVD
4. OT Blu-Ray
5. OT-PT Theatrical editions
6. OT-PT Blu-Rays
7. TPM-E9
8. OT SE-PT Theatrical
9. OT PT DVD
10. Lucas 9 part Saga EPISODE 1: Was to focus on the origins of the Jedi Knights and how they are initiated and trained

EPISODE 2: Introduction and development of Obi-Wan Kenobi
EPISODE 3: Introduction and life of Vader
EPISODE 4: There were seven different drafts of the film. At one point, they pursued buying the rights to Hidden Fortress because of the strong similarities. At one point, Luke was a female, Han was Luke's brother, Luke's father was the one in prison (interesting point for some debates) and the film featured 40 wookies
EPISODE 5: Once written, the screenplay of Empire is almost exactly what is seen on screen. The only cut scenes were those involving wampas in the rebel base (cut because of time and unsolved technical glitches) and about two minutes of Luke/Yoda Jedi training with no real dialog.
EPISODE 6: Leia was to be elected "Queen of her people" leaving her isolated. Han was to die. Luke confronted Vader and went on with his life alone. Leia was not to be Luke's sister.
EPISODE 7: Third trilogy was to focus on Luke's life as a Jedi, with very few details planned out.
EPISODE 8: Luke's sister (not Leia) appears from another part of the galaxy.
EPISODE 9: First appearance of the Emperor.
3 Anthology films

1. EU DOTJ-Legacy Vol. 2. TPM-ROTJ Theatrical
2. EU DOTJ-Legacy Vol. 2 PT theatrical-OT SE
3. EU DOTJ-Legacy Vol. 2 TPM-ROTJ DVD
4. EU DOTJ-Legacy Vol. 2 TPM-ROTJ Blu-Ray with TCW
5. EU DOTJ-Legacy Vol. 2 TPM-ROTJ Blu-Ray without TCW
6. NEU
7. OOT/Marvel comics,
8. OOT/Bantam era books, Dark Horse comics
9. OOT/Bantam era books, Dark Horse comics with different Clone Wars
10. ANH Infinities
11. ESB Infinities
12. ROTJ Infinities
13. KOTOR Light Female
14. KOTOR Dark Male
15. KOTOR Dark Female
16. KOTOR II Light Male
17. KOTOR II Dark Male
18. KOTOR II Dark Female
19. Tag and Bink comics
20. Dark Force 2 Jedi Knight Dark ending
21. ROTS Game Anakin wins
22. TFU Dark side ending-Ultimate Sith Edition-Battle of Endor DLC
23. TFU 2 Dark Side Ending
24. Journal of the Whills Pt 1 1973
25. Journal of the Whills Pt 2
26. The Star Wars Story Synopsis May 1973
27. The Star Wars Rough Draft May 1974
28. The Star Wars First Draft July 1974
29. Adventures of the Starkiller as taken from the Journal of the Whills, Saga I: The Star Wars 1975
30. The Star Wars: The Adventures of Luke Starkiller
31. E5 Leigh Brackett’s Draft Feb 23, 1978
32. E5 Lucas Draft 1 March 1978
33. Revenge of the Jedi Draft 1 Feb 20, 1981
34. Revenge of the Jedi Draft 2 Sept 21, 1981
35. E1 The Beginning Draft 1 Nov 1, 1994
36. E1 The Beginning Draft 2 Summer 1995
37. E2 Draft
38. E3 Draft
39. E7 Michael Ardnt’s draft
40. George Lucas 2012 ST draft
41. Lego games
42. William Shakespeare books
43. The Epic Continues
44. Alternate Invincible ending where Anakin Solo lives
45. An Apology by Timothy Zahn
46. Gree War (Abeloth Not Freed 1)
47. Abeloth Not Freed 2
48. Abeloth Not Freed 3
49. Dark Man on Throne of Balance (Abeloth Not Freed 4)
50. A New Hope Choose Your Own Star Wars Adventure Try to escape the Sand People but get killed by them (non-canon).

Go back to the Lars' destroyed farm with Luke. You are devastated and go back to your own home. (non-canon)
Try to say good-bye to your family before joining the Rebel Alliance. (all of the following are non-canon)
Go back home and don't continue the adventure.
Get captured by the Empire.
Refuse to exploit Leia and get sent to Kessel.
▪Get Leia to tell you where the Rebel base is.
▪Betray the Empire and help Leia escape. Alderaan is spared and the Death Star is destroyed.
▪Betray Leia and get attacked by the Rebels as you approach Yavin 4.
▪Use Leia to force the Alliance to surrender. You are made an Imperial captain, the Rebel base is destroyed, and your friends are executed.
▪Help Leia escape and the Death Star is destroyed. Leia doesn't reveal your betrayal and you try to make up for it. Ben Kenobi starts a Jedi training program which you, Luke, and Leia enroll in.
▪Play the scenario by ear. Help Leia escape and get shot while protecting Luke, or stay out of the way and Luke dies instead while you die by the Death Star's explosion.
▪Escape the Death Star without Leia, but with the Death Star plans. (non-canon)
▪Get crushed by the trash compactor. (non-canon)
▪Salvage the rescue attempt of Princess Leia by showing Han Solo how to deal with the Imperials. Ben escapes with all of you, the Death Star is destroyed, and Ben starts a new Jedi training program (non-canon)
▪Join the Rebel Alliance and assist in the destruction of the Death Star.
▪Refuse Luke's order to retreat and help defend him while he destroys the Death Star. Vader attacks you but Han and Luke destroy him. (non-canon)
▪Obey Luke's order and retreat. Han and Chewie return and help Luke.
▪Join Han Solo and Chewbacca
▪Don't participate in the Death Star run; Luke is killed and the Empire builds three Death Stars. (non-canon)
▪Convince Han to turn around and help Luke destroy the Death Star.

1. Empire Strikes Back Choose Your Own Star Wars Adventure ▪Leave Luke to die by the wampa and try to get back to Echo Base, but freeze to death. (non-canon)

▪Don't go with Han's plan to cut open the tauntaun and try to walk back while everyone dies. (non-canon)
▪Join Han and the others, meet Lando, get captured by the Empire, and escape.
▪Try to fight Darth Vader and get sent to Kessel. (non-canon)
▪Han is encased in carbonite and taken by Boba Fett. Rescue Luke and plan Han's rescue.
▪Try to escape the space worm in the Millennium Falcon without everyone and get destroyed by an asteroid. (non-canon)
▪Join Luke in the Battle of Hoth, and then travel to Dagobah and train with Yoda to become a Jedi. (all of the following are non-canon)
▪Run away from Yoda and get left behind by Luke. Yoda finds you and trains you to become a Jedi.
▪Don't enter the dark side cave and return to the Rebel Alliance to become Rogue Leader.
▪Team up with Luke on Bespin and defeat Darth Vader. Luke kills Vader and you plan Han's rescue. (non-canon)
▪Or go rescue your friends and foil Boba Fett's plan and save Han Solo from falling into the clutches of Jabba the Hutt. (non-canon)
▪Get captured by Darth Vader on Hoth and venture on the dark side of the Force and be left with the choice to betray your friends or not. (all of the following are non-canon)
▪Refuse Vader's offer and get sent to Kessel.
▪At Cloud City, help Lando rescue Han and the others; they escape but you are captured by Vader and imprisoned.
▪Rejoin the Rebels, spending the foreseeable future attempting to resist the pull from the dark side.
▪Hand your friends over to the Imperials and become a general of the Empire.

1. Return of the Jedi Choose Your Own Star Wars Adventure Surrender to Jabba, who'll release you for info on the Rebellion. (all of the following are non-canon)

▪Betray your friends to Jabba, who are imprisoned. You are released, but subsequently shunned by the Rebellion.
▪Surrender to Jabba, refuse to give any information, and everyone gets fed to the rancor.
▪Follow Luke into the rancor pit and release the monster on the palace while you escape. (all of the following are non-canon)
▪Kill Jabba and you and Lando become slaves.
▪Refuse to help Boba Fett recapture Han. You and Lando become slaves.
▪Pretend to help Boba Fett recapture Han and turn on the bounty hunter who'll be imprisoned by the Rebellion for life.
▪Try to help Lando escape the sarlacc but get eaten by it. (non-canon)
▪Join Lando Calrissian in the Millennium Falcon to fight and destroy the second Death Star.
▪Help your friends on Endor destroy the shield generator.
▪Join Luke and Leia on the speeder bike chase and get captured by the Ewoks. (non-canon)
▪Stay with Han and Chewbacca, befriend the Ewoks, and destroy the generator.
▪Join Luke in the final battle against Vader and Emperor Palpatine.
▪Stay on the light side while Luke falls to the dark side. (non-canon)
▪Fall to the dark side while Luke stays on the light, Anakin Skywalker is redeemed and so are you.

1. Waru’s Universe
2. Star Wars Dark Horse Sith Invasion story

 

Osik- I thought I was thorough!

 

Ha ha. Need to add those YA versions of the OT released in 2015 and FACPOV as well.
Anything even mentioned as a idea is good enough for me.
Working through the Tales comics as well, because, why not?

 

Have you seen the Battlefront II Galactic Conquest endings? If you win as, say, the Republic the ending will differ greatly from the canonical ending.
-If the CIS wins they conquer the galaxy with Sidious at their helm. Anakin is killed by Dooku. Maul fights for the seppies. Jango is alive. Grievous doesn't die.
-If the Republic wins Mace Windu kills Palpatine and the Purge never happens.
-If the Empire wins Luke bows to Palpatine amongst a few other somewhat contradictory events.
-If the Rebels win it goes the same as ROTJ.
If you want to know more Wookieepedia goes a little more in-depth.

 

Pushing 140 right now.

 

I definitely agree with 2 or even more than 2 canon timelines.

1. The disney official timeline which includes all the movies, clones wars, rebels, new novels and marvel star wars 2015 and beyond.

2. The EU timeline which includes the original trilogy, the prequels, The Dark Horse comics and 99% of the legends novels.

3. The weird timeline consisting of the original trilogy, old marvel series and some weird novels (splinter of the minds eye)

 

I would want that plus the what-ifs because those rock.

 

I believe in a canon in which Maul's tattoos aren't Sith tattoos, a canon in which there's no Sith species or Rakata, a canon in which Ysalimiri and consecutive-voweled clones don't exist, a canon in which Plagueis died long before TPM, a canon in which Force-sensitivity can't be cloned, etc.

 

I just keep things simple by accepting three versions of the EU:

1) Original Trilogy Era, 1976-1990
2) Prequel Era, 1990-2014
3) Sequel Trilogy Era, 2014-present


I accept most or all contradictions between stories as in-universe character perspectives. My view is that the characters are relaying the SW saga to us and that is why there are contradictions. For a saga this complex, yes, there will be contradictions.

This "theory" covers in-universe biases and perspectives. It also addresses transmission of the SW saga to earthlings. The aspect of transmitting a Sci Fi epic across galactic epochs is interesting alone by itself.

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The opening "In A Galaxy Far, Far Away" suggests the reality that the timeline and pivotal saga events occurred a long time ago, after which time, they had to be transmitted to us in our time. That is how I put everything together and incorporate the "fairy tale motif."

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In my view of the saga, the droids have outlived the mortal human players and then were programmed to transmit the entire saga to us in our time. I believe this idea is close to what George originally arrived at in 1977 but soon abandoned. The two droids, R2D2 and C3PO, arrived on Earth in 1977 to tell us the story of this Galaxy Far Far Away.

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If you go back to the first parts of ANH, there is a "Droid Perspective" that is suggested. I don't accept the notion that C 3PO was activated by Anakin in his childhood.

But basically, I believe the two droid "heroes" are "worker droids" that are part of a bigger, grand plan involving large mainframe, supercomputer droids like Mistress Mnemos. They have been tasked by the mainframes to keep "records" and match "story accounts" of the sentient heroes and villains.

The droids in Star Wars are shown at times to have emotions and higher beings. Are those motifs just for kids? Probably not. The more innocent ones may be for kids. But these motifs seem to pop in every now and then to remind us that we are indeed mortal human beings and our days are numbered. For example, where did Brother Fivelines come from in Alan Moore's "Rust Never Sleeps?" Brother Five lines pops right into a comic short and welcomes the droids to the "body" of the Living God.

Spooky? Yes. Random? Not quite. Alan Moore and Russ Manning (See Below) were following motifs, character perspectives, and "droid narrator points of view" that were present in the first SW film as George released it in 1977.

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Especially notice the many varieties of droids that George put into the original film:



Why keep records of these protagonists, human and otherwise sentient? The Long Time Ago in a GFFA motif suggests the story of this fictional Galaxy had to be transmitted to a future Galaxy. My view is that Lucas suggested all these ideas originally when ANH was released.

Also notice how confidently the first Russ Manning newspaper strips started off, working in Mistress Mnemos and the Sidereal Age. Costancia Affair has 3PO telling Mistress Mnemos he was activated centuries ago on the planet AFFA..... What the first Russ Manning comic strips did was continue the in-universe "droid as narrator" perspective that is present in the opening scenes of ANH.

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I am reading "Last Shot" about Lando and Han and am LOVING it! I am EAGERLY awaiting Thrawn: Alliances. I welcome both canons together in a mash-up fashion where we get Legends characters in new contexts. Kyp Durron as an example. Mara Jade for another. And any variation of the Ghost Crew past Endor.

 

Just to offer a little bit more explanation on my last post. This is to show how I have arrived at my views on multiple story canons, contradictions, in-universe perspectives... This is a sort of "back to basics" approach.

If it was 1977 again, and ANH is the only SW film audiences have ever seen, these are the sorts of questions people would be asking.

Does the banner "A Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far, Far Away" suggest any or all of the following:

1) The galaxy in the Star Wars saga is a galaxy different from ours?

2) The timeline and saga events occurred temporally long time ago?

3) The timeline and saga events occurred at great distance in light years away from our galaxy?

5) The events in the SW galaxy occurred at a time closer to the Big Bang or Creation Event for the known Universe?

6) The galaxy in Star Wars may have different laws of physics than ours?



How was the "Skywalker Saga" communicated from this distant galaxy?

1) Recording, storage, and transmission through the two Droids is suggested



Because we are receiving the saga "Out-Universe," the bits of story that compose the larger saga can never be disconnected from the perspectives and biases of the protagonists. Also, the fairy tale motif and intention to build a mythology can never be removed from the intentions of Lucas.

From there we can ask, "Are the droids truly protagonists?" My answer is that they are probably not. They are programmed to serve the sentient beings. They can take sides. They are certainly not independent from the protagonists. They are part of the action and drama, but at the end of the day, their programming reflects the thoughts and intentions of their programmers. That is why the will and greater intentions of their programmers can be carried on with the droids long after they become deceased in-universe.



MY CONCLUSIONS:

I take an Artificial Intelligence Approach

Under the conditions created with the "Long Time Ago" banner, there is room for two or more canons and lots of contradictions in-between. Because of the way Lucas introduced Star Wars, we can infer that the two droids are in-universe narrators who were tasked with recording and storing the "Skywalker saga" and eventually transmitting it.

Also, the two droids have recording and storage limitations, even though their internal storage resources must be vast. Other droids are therefore responsible for transmission of other sagas within the in-universe historical timeframe.

Building the SW saga around the concept of Artificial Intelligence, digital transmission, in-universe and out-universe perspectives is vastly fulfilling to me because it takes into account transmission of a saga across the span of galaxy birth and death.

Why would it be important to record and transmit a story from a galaxy that has already died and the only remnants are mechanical droids? My view includes that the fictional galaxy seen in SW has already died before we get to human written history. Also, sagas from the SW galaxy may be transmitted to other galaxies besides ours. Bringing in communication of stories across the span of galactic birth and death brings in an expanded element where I hope SW will eventually venture out into.

 

Given the number of strategic and general RPGs I´ve played with friends over the years, many of them being essentialy what if scenarios, I´ve allways viewed SW has having multiple timeline exsisting next to each other, without any real "main" one. So I agree with the idea of multiple canons.

 

It's a little difficult to understand all that. Why would the droids need to be transmitting after the galaxy was dead? We can't receive any transmission travelling faster than light, which means even if the Star Wars galaxy was what we call Andromeda, our closest neighbouring galaxy, it would take 2.5 million years for the transmission to reach us. Also one droids account of a single point in time could reach us thousands of years after another droids account of a later point in time if the former droid was on the far side of the galaxy in relation to ours.

 

Thanks for the feedback on my ideas.

Just to clarify, although I used the word transmit, I intended to say that ANH and Making of Star Wars suggest the droids travelled to Earth with the saga recorded in their databanks. Fictively they would have touched down in 1977.

If the Skywalker saga occurred A Long Time Ago, in a far off galaxy, this motif suggests a) the SW Galaxy existed before ours, and b) the saga from the SW Galaxy had to be communicated to our Galaxy long after the events in the saga ended. The closest story element suggested for communication is the droids. I'm not necessarily saying the saga shows the droids travelling to Earth.

There might have been some transmitting as well... And also, if a signal takes over 2.5 million years from a neighboring galaxy, that does not bother me. The universe operates on time scales which are beyond our recognition.

Why would a dying galaxy or planet send Droid emissaries to convey important information about their history? This question is similar to Why keep a historical record?, Why have religion?, Why keep a family scrapbook?, Why keep a journal?, Why record history? There is some important ingredient of Truth or even destiny that compelled the in-universe characters to record their stories and then send them to far off galaxies for future sentient beings.

 

I'm not sure how ANH suggests that the two droids traveled to Earth? The documentaries that the droids are in are just for fun. It would also be an incredibly inefficient way to reach out to other civilisations in other galaxies.

The way I look at it is like this. If we received a radio transmission that could be traced back to from another galaxy, and we found that the transmission was telling a story, we would then be able to recreate and act out that story. We would be able to say that this story originated millions of years ago from a galaxy far far away. In this situation we cannot know whether the story is fictional or not. Translation of these ancient transmissions could also be imperfect, leading to differing opinions on how the story should go.

 

Look how ANH starts off by following the droids to show how they got to Tatooine. The first 20+ minutes might as well present the droids as the stars. The human heroes and villains are first presented (Darth, Leia, Luke) at a distance rather than from a first-person perspective. We view them in an action sequence only at a distance as they are introduced.

EDIT:. The droids are first introduced as foreground characters. Vader, Leia, and Luke are first introduced as background characters. As ANH progresses, the human characters and droids do a reversal in regards to foreground perspective. Sometimes the droids are revisited as foreground characters. The droids almost become like in-universe narrators.

The Journal of the Whills is also part of what I'm referring to.

EDIT: .I am combining ANH film, novelization, and The Making of Star Wars to reach my interpretation. Consider it an interpretation of background motifs.

Have you ever heard the idea that the Star Wars saga films are taken from the perspective of the droids? Notice how the two droids are in all the trilogies. Palpatine is out in the Sequel Trilogy but the droids are back in.

There is an in-universe droid narrator perspective that is suggested by the the droids. The droids are also the only characters that can go out-universe. (my interpretation)

This is my interpretation. However, I have based this interpretation on the creative process of Lucas. It is not a literal interpretation but more based on background motifs. But what could happen eventually is that those background motifs could become prominent in future SW films.

EDIT: .I enjoy SW more through this type of perspective. The Making of Star Wars is canonical video fiction to me, more than just for fun. A documentary can add new story elements to show a greater view point/vantage point for a fictional work.

 

Well it is certainly an interesting perspective, and if it makes star wars more fun for you then that is great. There is obviously no right or wrong way of thinking.

Just interested here. What would you think if either R2 or 3PO were "killed" in EpIX?

 

Ha! I don't anticipate either of the droids "dying," memory wiped, deactivated, dismantled, etc. in Ep. 9.

If anything close to either of these occurred, both of them could still come back with some explanation. Ep. IX would have to go super-dark and sinister to show how the two droids' we're destroyed and can't come back after a certain date. It would be a big mistake. I assume we will see both droids celebrating with the heroes, at worse with a limb missing.... : )

SW is far more fascinating when we allow the droids to go out-universe as intergalactic emissaries. George finished SW and released it in 1977. So the idea of a time capsule from that year could eventually reinvigorate the saga at some point and add closure to the background elements that George abandoned. The problem I see is the failure to bring closure and instead spin endless circles in the imagination of the public into infinity. A good saga has a beginning, middle, and end. The end should try to resolve as much plot tension as possible to satisfy the audience.

We may never truly know when the end is reached with SW. However, the plot elements presented to us deserve to be resolved.

The banner "A Long Time Ago In a Galaxy......" . creates too much overall tension to leave it unresolved. The resolution could take decades to explain but George just kind of left audiences hanging there with that banner. I think George originally did try to connect the dots for why and how the events in SW occurred a long, long time ago.

 

Fascinating theory. I never thought much about "A long time ago...". I always figured it was just from an omniscient and certainly non-diagenic narrator.

 

Hey, thanks for that feedback. The Droids being in-universe narrators could explain quite a bit. I hope that gets revisited in some way. Why do they need to be in-universe narrators? Why bother connecting the SW Galaxy to ours? Why state up front that all of the events occurred a long time ago in a galaxy far from ours?

Could it be that the two droids were meant to be the true foreground characters? They are witnessing the events in the Skywalker saga then must record them and transmit them. But why...?

 

Double Post

I'm going to call my approach to multiple canons the "Mixed-Up Droid Approach"





This approach assumes the following:

1) The two droids and other droids are in-universe narrators.

2) They are responsible for witnessing, recording, and transmitting the SW saga to other galaxies.




Why:

1) The SW Saga needs in-universe story elements that allow for two or more saga canons.

2) The story elements are already there. We just need to connect the dots.

Spoiler: Constancia Affair (1979): Mistress Mnemos, Rebel Supercomputer

And think back to 2015.......what about all those BB-8 public appearances?

Does the Maker have a trick up his/her sleeve?

Spoiler: And This BB..........Something

and

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This theory is interesting, but my interpretation is slightly different. But only slightly. Instead of ANH being a transmission that Artoo and Threepio are giving to our galaxy I see the 1977 film as actually a film adaptation of historic events that the droids gave us. Imagine their role being kinda similar to Cornelius and Zira in Escape from the Planet of the Apes. They are here to give the Earth knowledge of another time.
Which to me means that Threepio and Artoo have been on Earth a little longer than 1977 and they hosted the making of special, made appearances in anti-smoking PSAs, cereal commercials, etc. because of the celebrity they found after they got here.
Also to take it a step further I would argue that the original versions of the OT released in 1977, 1980, and 1983 are the film adaptations of what the two droids told George Lucas and the people of Earth and the canonical special editions are the actual events themselves. That way the uncanonical original edits can still exist within canon as "historical fiction" created in our time and place.

 

I might even think it possible that the droids were on Earth for centuries. As was said above they have the capacity to outlive other species for a long period. The reason I say this is only because images of Artoo and Threepio can be found in hieroglyphics in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Incidentally there is a very funny Tales comic that involves Indiana Jones finding a wrecked Falcon which means others have toyed with the idea of Indiana Jones and Star Wars coexisting in the same universe.
And my theory above would explain why in ET Elliot was playing with Star Wars merchandise and then later the ET alien recognised Yoda's species since we see the ET species in the Republic Senate in The Phantom Menace. It all comes full circle and it leaves Star Wars, ET, and Indiana Jones as events taking place in a single continuity.

 

That is really great. Especially the idea of the films portraying "historical" or "universal" or "archetypal" events that are bound to occur within the timeframe of an expanding universe. We can always inject that everything is from a certain point of view.

And I do think there was a motif early on that the droids were here on Earth to communicate the saga as a film and then make public service appearances. If you start re-watching ANH again from the beginning, the first 20 minutes are from the droid perspective. After about 20 minutes, the human characters move from background to foreground. This suggests the droids can move into the saga events and then out of the saga events since they are not organic.

I like throwing people for a loop by saying all droid television appearances were part of canon. This includes the Making of Star Wars, Holiday Special, etc.

Adding the "out-universe" and in-universe" perspectives makes a difference. Our connection to this fictional galaxy is no longer "flat" or uni-directional." It is instead "bi-directional." Characters from SW can come into our space and time. We can also potentially venture into the SW galaxy at some point on the galactic timeline.

Under these rules, we now have to extend the droid visitor motif to BB-8. (To pick up where I last left off)

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EDIT: At times like these I wish Mr. Lucas could have fulfilled his SW vision to show these rich perspective contrasts.

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