A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

Spoiler

Spoiler

Rey is strong in the force and they are not, even so Rey didn’t have the easiest time against the red guard people, she was hit by one of their blades at least once that I remember.

 

Spoiler

Isn't it kind of absurd that Ben almost died in this fight considering that he has at least a decade's worth of training under two different masters?

 

Spoiler

He used up all his mana bar deceiving Snoke's senses otherwise he'd have just frozen all those muggle chumps, obviously.

 

Spoiler

Ep 7: I guess Rey gets her Jedi training in Ep 8
Ep 8: I guess Rey gets her Jedi training in Ep 9
Ep 9: I guess Rey gets her Jedi training in Rian's trilogy

 

Spoiler

I've heard some speculation that the Kights of Ren in TFA might be a flashforward. I have no idea if that makes sense though.

On a different subject, I don't think TLJ changes the status of force users as much as people think it does. Force sensitivity was never just the result of genetics handed down by ones parents. As far as we know the force sensitive kids who were found by the Jedi Order had normal parents. And in TCW we saw that young untrained Rodian making an object float with the force. That's not much different than the kid with the broom at the end of TLJ.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

Spoiler

I think Kylo is also just not that good at tuning into the force. Very easily distracted.

 

Spoiler

If we're believing the movie that Kylo is conflicted - and we're taking the movie's cue of him staring at the throne to mean he truly makes up his mind to become Supreme Leader after the fight - it makes sense he doesn't just use the dark side willy-nilly.

 

Spoiler

Why doesn’t Kylo just freeze the guards? Why doesn’t Luke just pull the speeder bike? Why don’t Obi-wan and Qui-gin drop the roof on the droidekas? Why doesn’t Obi-wan force sprint through the shields in the fight with Maul?

Talk about selective criticism. Yeesh.

 

Spoiler

FWIW a big thing I haven't seen too many people pick up on - Luke says that he has three lessons for her and we only see two. I wonder if we'll see her getting the third in IX via Force Ghost Luke?

 

Spoiler

"Salt."

 

Spoiler

We've always known it both appeared spontaneously and was passed down through families, but it's fair to say that we've been conditioned by the PT to assume that the apex of Force sensitivity involves the Force putting its Zeus hat on.

But apparently not.

Spoiler

Huh. You're right. I'd forgotten all about that. Now you've reminded me, I'm annoyed by it all over again.

But that just shifts the blame to TCW.

Spoiler

Selective? I think every one of those things has been brought up at one time or another.

"Why didn't Obi-Wan speed through the shields!?" is pretty famous.

 

Let's talk about fuel, friends. The one, that allegedly is feeding the resistance cruiser's hyperdrive and propulsion engines. It was my understanding, that ships of such magnitude in SW universe used some sort of fuel reactors for effective travel between stars and across the galaxy, thus diminishing necessity to "refuel" those big beasts of technological marvel after each drop out of hyperspace. You know, it all being possible due to scientific magic and that sort of thing. I could understand the hyperengines needing time to cool down after each hyperjump or to recharge power cells, but running out of fuel, unless it's heavily depleting the reactors' fuel rods or whatever that reactor is, sounds kinda like technological loophole for SW universe. I thought liquid fuel was maybe for smaller, land-based starships for reentry and travel in atmosphere or for travel within boundaries of a star system.

 

Being that hyperspace travel increasingly seems like cross-galactic teleportation - RotS, TFA, and TLJ all have plot points that depend on people crossing most of the galaxy in minutes, not hours - the need to refuel might slow down space travel to the point where hyperspace lanes and travel times make sense again.

Spoiler

The exact same statements are true of Luke in Episodes 4-6.

 

Thought: I'm wondering if the "I don't know what to make of this" factor will actually lead to increased ticket sales. I loved TFA, so I didn't feel a need to see it again in the theaters. However, for TLJ, since my general responses is...wtf just happened...I will have to go see it again.

Sent from my Moto X-Wing

 

Hyperspace routes still exist (existed in EU). It has nothing to do with refueling, it's more for safe interstellar travel. And refueling is a thing of ancient past, like long before KotOR. Imagine, what it would take to refuel Death Star or whole Imperial fleet? Deep space explorations, voyages into the unknown regions with no guaranteed refueling stations? Of course they have some kind of reactors powering hyperdrives on large military ships. It's an advanced spacefaring civilization.

 

Spoiler

I hope we see a sort of Frankenstein Supremacy in IX. It would be cool on it's own and a sort of call back to DSII. Something that would be right up JJ's alley

 

Not for me. I have no desire to confirm whether the opening scene was more like Spaceballs or a Marvel superhero movie. I also have no desire, after months of excitement building for this movie, to confirm whether...

Spoiler

my feelings of complete disappointment of Luke tossing away of his father's lightsaber for a cheap laugh after his intense look of pain and anguish at the end of TFA were justified. I also have zero desire to see Mary Poppins Leia again or for Force Face Time between Kylo and Rey.

Ughh...just had to get that off my chest again.

 

I’m not sure what everyone is acting like starship fuel is such a huge break from the prexisting lore. In the New Canon, we see an X-wing being fueled up before Scarif in Rogue One. The Clone Wars has an entire arc stemming from the Republic’s need for fuel. There’s a mission in Battlefront II where Iden and Meeko blow up a refueling depot and destroy several Star Destroyers in the process.

In some cases (mainly for bigger ships with reactors), it’s closer to the definition of “coolant” than technically fuel, but the need for some kind of finite resource to keep the engines running is still a thing.

Spoiler

The point isn’t to get a cheap laugh, it’s to shock the audience and make it clear that this isn’t the happy-go-lucky Luke fans had imagined him as. After a brief moment of nostalgia, he quickly and bluntly rejects the Jedi again.

 

DP. Damn lag.

 

Very frustrating posting (and reading) these past few days.

Spoiler

Seems to me Kylo Ren is the only person that actually walked away with anything resembling a significant win. Supreme Leader Ren.

Yup. The FO military arm is run by an imbecile .... and he essentially conquered the galaxy in about 2-3 days.

I'm actually ok with these two things.
1. No answer to Rey's parents was going to be satisfying. It doesn't quite line up with her guardians flying off the planet, but that's what 2nd drafts are for. Rian doesn't believe in them.
2. Kylo breaking his helmet was nice symbolism. He looked to Han as a father figure and was abandoned. He looked to Leia, she sent him to Luke. He looked to Luke; he tried to murder him in his sleep. He ran to Snoke for guidance and Snoke laughed and essentially disowned him. Kylo is at his best (worst) when he is rejected. It is his strength. His weakness is Leia, which played out in his very next scene.

1. It was for a cheap laugh as Rey told him to cover up. The humor was ..... not funny .... annoying even.
2. Second viewing was even more nasty as we find out "uhm, that's not how you milk a cow. That's not milk, it's .... an X rating"

On the surface level, I liked it. It was a great way to set up Kylo's psychological hurdles. But unfortunately, we watched Luke do the exact opposite when it came to Vader. Luke went all Minority Report on Ben. Good job Luke. Maybe you should try to kill Rey next and see how that works out.

And something else that was a "you've got to be kidding me" moment:
Luke didn't even read the Jedi Texts. He skimmed them. He couldn't finish a few hundred pages of Jedi texts with nothing else to do on a secluded island. Perhaps the final insult is that we found out Luke can't read.

 

Spoiler

The best elucidations I've read from viewers about the flaws in the movie, flaws that do not rest of past characterizations, previous Star Wars movies, or that this is the first Star Wars film without a lightsaber duel, but rather the movie standing on its own, are rushed plot contrivances and plot threads that don't seem to go anywhere, example the Canto Bight and infiltration plot with Finn, Rose, and DJ.

I think the reason these problems exist in the first place is that the main theme in the movie for each character, as other viewers have pointed out, is failure and failure as a potential for strength and learning. Endure. In enduring grow strong. This is true for just about everyone in The Last Jedi, Finn, Rose, Poe, Rey, and of course Luke. Even the bad guys fail and Kylo Ren fails spectacularly at the end.

But if this is the repeated theme of your movie, if the plot goes in circles, but the characters are the ones that go forward, then your characters better be rock solid.

 

Did you see the movie?

Spoiler

The need for fuel is THE driving motivation of the A-plot. Now that we know refueling is both A Thing and A MAJOR Thing, and that hyperspace travel times aren't, I was thinking of a reason why the old routes and hyperlanes matter.

 

So... Traitor?

Spoiler: Why is this tagged?

He does not struggle.
Instead, he opens himself. In his most secret center, that gap in his being that once fed him pain, he offers an embrace.
Into the hollow in his center, he pours compassion. Absolute empathy. Perfect understanding.
He accepts the pain he caused the dhuryam with his betrayal; he shares with the dhuryam the pain that betrayal had caused him.
He shares with the dhuryam all his experience with the spectrum of life: the featureless whiteout of agony, the red tide of rage, the black hole of despair, the gamma-sleet of loss ... and the lush verdure of growing things, the grays of stone and duracrete, the glisten of gemstones and transparisteel, the blue-white sizzle of the noonday sun and its exact echo in a lightsaber's blade.
He shares how much he loves it all: for all these things are all one thing: pain and joy, loss and reunion, life and death. To love any is to love all, for none can exist without every other.
The Universe.
The Force.
All is one.
The Yuuzhan Vong and the species of the New Republic.
Jacen and the World Brain.
When I betrayed you, I betrayed myself. When I killed your siblings, I killed pieces of myself. You may kill me, but I will live on in you.
We are One.
And Jacen cannot tell if those words come from him to the World Brain, or from the World Brain to him, for Jacen and the World Brain are only different faces of the same thing. Call it the Universe, or the Force, or Existence: those are only words.
They are half truths. Less.
They are lies.
The truth is always greater than the words we use to describe it.

Spoiler: Okay this needs to be tagged

"Reach out with your feelings. What do you see?"

"The island. Life. Death and decay, that feeds new life. Warmth. Cold. Peace. Violence.

"And between it all?

"Balance. An energy. A Force."

"And inside you?"

"Inside me that same Force."

 

I've been slowly coming to terms with the movie in the past few days. In today's random wake-up time thought:

Spoiler

* Snoke is an EU character! Not one we are familiar with yet, though, but whatever his backstory (my theory is that he Voldemort-ed his way back through the fella that was thrown in the Jakku pit in Empire's End) AND forthstory is (my theory is that just his body was killed, he can be baaaaack), these stories will be told in the expanded media: tv, novels, comics. If this happens, it could be considered a 'theme' of sorts: much like this other split villain, you get sliced in half in the movies, then only your EU half will remain. Snoke's actions were important for the story we are being told in the movies, but his character is secondary to it.

 

I love how almost every character is given an arc or at least a few nuggets of characterization. It was nice to watch a film so rich with character work and themes. I feel very connected to multiple characters on both sides of the fight.
I saw anakinfansince1983 throw shade at Hux and I couldn't disagree more.

Spoiler

He's trying so hard to be a badass imperial which I found funny but also kinda sad. When he's about to shoot Ren he looks so terrified it made me feel strangely bad for him.
Kylo is great again in this one. It was cool to see him become his own thing. I just can't get enough of that character.
Rey is looking for parents (teachers/guides) in all the wrong places. In the end she finds the last Jedi, the person who will guide the way for the resistance and become a teacher of the new Jedi, in herself. I found this to be a very uplifting story.
Poe, Finn and Rose's stories didn't always thrill me but the way they all payed off in the final battle I found very emotional.

 

Spoiler

Are you hinting at Dark Empire type of storyline, and that Snoke could be someone else? A story, that I'm not really familiar with.

 

Spoiler

I read a theory that the Snoke we all saw was just some puppet body that the real Snoke was controlling. Basically the way Hux was thrown around in the beginning of the movie by Snoke via hologram--Snoke was controlling his "body" from far off while sitting on Coruscant or wherever. Thus, we've never seen the real Snoke. He might actually be a Force sensitive Porg or Ewok.