The Last Jedi Discussion Thread - **UNTAGGED SPOILERS WITHIN**

I don't know that Luke erred, in thinking about striking down his nephew.

Yoda sent Obi Wan to kill Anakin, so an EJK (extra judicial kill) is on the statutes!

My own issue with Luke was after ROTJ when he kicked Vader in the chest, so I was conscious of giving Luke a "meh", as he stood over the sleeping Ben.

I detected that Luke was not leaving footprints, but did not know what it meant.

 

"You don't form in the wet sand,
You don't form at all,
You don't form in the wet sand,
I do...I do..."

Not something coming from a good lyricist (on the contrary, LOL), but an interesting symbol, nevertheless.

Dunno. He put two of my computers together, including this beast I've had for years now; and I have not spoken to her since the first day of 2014, yet I'm good with him. And yeah, we were both stupid, can tell you in private.

I will make him change his mind. JEDI MIND TRICKS.

 

Let me start by saying that the good, the awesome, and the down right epic in The Last Jedi far outweigh, the bad, the needless, and silly of the film. I was mightily impressed and left the theater on a high. This film far outshine the remake that was TFA.

FAVORITE: Vice Admiral Holdo splitting Snoke's ship in twoby ramming it at light speed. Epic, Iconic, and one of the COOLEST on screen images I've seen in ages. The silence was golden!

Other favorites in no particular order:

Yoda - loved the call back to ESB and found his humor a great contrast to Luke's dramatic petulance.

Rey-Kylo force connection -loved their dialogue. This made Kylo more interesting, if still a angry child.

Rey and Kylo battling in Snoke's throne room. Iconic imagery and story progression.

Say what you will, I fanboy danced when Leia ghost floated herself back to the ship after the decompression.

Luke confrontation with Kylo which and related reveal and death. I'm good. Twin Suns of Tatooine and all.

Not so favoritess:

Finn, Rose, and Canto Bight - ultimately this storyline was pointless as the mission was never fulfilled. I didn't mind the preachiness of it but it diverted from the much more interesting story of Leia, Poe, and the Resistance predicament.

Snoke is lame. Or Disney is lame for dispatching their big bad without ever letting him develop.

I like Poe Dameron, but he's too much maveric, with no back story or character development on screen. Ends up having little resonance.

Phasma. - lots of Hype for a character that is even more useless than Snoke. She didn't even die well.

I thought this movie rocked. All my old school fan buttons were pushed which allowed me to take the inconsistencies in stride. That said, where do we go from here?

 

True. It could be a combination of distance and lack of training on Rey's part. She probably can't shield because she's never been taught how. Kylo might not have been able to do that across the galaxy, but probably could at that distance.

Yeah, that was an amazing part, beautifully shot and I agree about the silence. I didn't really notice the music except for a few places (Leia's theme a few times, Force theme particularly as Luke sees the twin suns) but I did notice the silence and how well they used it a few times.

 

Oh, I spotted Gary's name in the credits as "Gary the Space Dog!" (Carrie's French bulldog). I didn't see him; I'll have to watch the casino scene more carefully, since that's probably where he was.

GARY IS CANON!!!

 

Yep! I loved that! He's being held by someone on Canto Bight. There's a still that was released where you can see him:
http://www.vulture.com/2017/12/gary-fisher-the-dog-has-a-cameo-in-star-wars-the-last-jedi.html

 

At first i wanted in the next movie for Anakin, and maybe Obi-Wan, to shove Luke back into the land of the Living but after reading some posts him being a ghost and haunting Kylo might be the better outcome.

Why I like Rey Nobody is you don't have to be related to someone to do something with your life or explain your talents; some people have a greater aptitude for some things while others don't. My sisters Diane and Kathy are great at playing the piano while I am not as good, but it's been some years since i played and maybe I am better than I think, but this doesn't mean that their children are going to be great at the piano.

That was probably not the best example but I rest my case.

 

So, Prince Harry and Prince William had their cameo's cut, but Gary the Spacedog is in the movie. LOL! I was sort of looking forward to seeing Harry as a soldier. I was certain I saw him at one point, but I guess I was wrong. I heard Mark Hamill did the voice of one of the characters in the casino scene. I think it was the lush putting coins into BB-8, but I am not sure.

I saw that Rotten Tomatoes has a critics rating of 93%, but the Audience rating of 55%. Wow, SW fans can be harsh critics.

EDIT: Now I have seen reports that the royals weren't cut from the movie. So who knows.

 

Jedi_Lover I read somewhere that they were the stormtroopers that were going to execute Rose and Finn; but that might have been a rumor or a suspicion.

EDIT According to this article they did play stormtroopers.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/ga...e-watching-star-wars-the-last-jedi/ss-BBGZrh1

 

I recently read that John Boyega started the rumor that the royals were cut. I guess as an Englishman he wanted to mess with the princes.

 

Also Jedi_Lover there are rumors that people are using dummy accounts to give TLJ bad ratings on Rotten Tomatoes; one person even admitted to doing so with multiple accounts and bots.

CinemaScore has it at an 'A'; they poll people in person to prevent such things.

And before I forget: Rogue One told us about the Hyperspace Tracking. I saw a post about it one facebook, opened the movie in iTunes and sure enough about roughly the 1 hour 45 minute mark Jyn mentions that Hyperspace Tracking is something the Empire is working on before K2 redirects the search.

 

I think the audience is split on the movie because there is a huge fan base and they all have ideas as to how the movie should have played out. I have a very good friend from these boards that doesn't like the movie at all. As for me...I don't hate it because the fanfic potential is huge since so much is wrapped in a mystery. What I don't like is the answers to those mysteries are probably in the dozens of new books coming out. I have over 100 SW Legends novels. I really don't like the idea of having to read the new canon so I can write canon fics. Although I like writing AUs I do like to keep them somewhat canon.

I think some people have a problem with their favorite SW people acting OOC, but since we don't know what happened in the last twenty years...how can we be certain they are OOC? Let me tell you, some of my friends I have known for 35 years and every once in a while I am blindsided by behavior that is what I considered totally OOC. The bottom line is we don't really know people. We know what they want us to see. I had a coworker the other day totally shocked that I like a certain risque TV show. "That show is filthy! I love it, but I never thought you would watch it." Imagine her surprise if she ever found out about some of my more PWP fanfics.

My thought is Luke's OOC contemplation of nepoticide (yes I googled 'word to describe killing your nephew'...I am sure Homeland Security is now looking into my behavior) may be completely in character depending on what happened in the days and weeks prior to that day. Luke must have been scared to death of Ben to ignite that saber. There is no way that incident happened just because Ben is having darkside dreams that night. Also, that event would help explain why Luke became a hermit. Ben has every reason to believe his uncle was there to kill him. He had a right to defend himself. Who knows why he burned the Jedi Academy to the ground. Perhaps somebody saw Luke going in there and the explosion. The students confront Ben who tells them Luke had his lightsaber ignited and wanted to kill him. They don't believe Ben and try to arrest or kill him. There is a fight among the students as to what to do, sides are taken and a fight begins. It is a SW version of Lord of the Flies.

Luke wakes up and realizes his stupid decision to ignite his lightsaber resulted in losing the trust of his nephew and probably pushing him to the darkside. He is responsible for initiating the event that led to the death of many of his students and other students going to the darkside. He doesn't want to tell Leia and Han he went to see Ben and almost killed him in cold blood. Also, maybe Luke thinks his contemplation of murder might be him slipping to the darkside himself. I can see him getting all depressed and exiling himself to some island so live out his years learning about the Force, eating fish and drinking warm green milk. It is a fitting punishment for his failure.

As for Hux looking like a duffus... the book Phasma mentions that he was an embarrassment to his father who was an Imperial General. So in reality, the younger Hux is a broken young man with daddy issues. I think once Starkiller base is easily destroyed by a girl, a 70 year old man and an Imperial Janitor, Hux lost his credibility. I did like the fact that he considered killing Kylo when he was unconscious. He needs to be a little faster on the draw.

The movie is much better than the prequels and this is the first movie since the OT that I may watch a second time in a theater.

 

Someone even pointed out that Ben might have even thought Luke got permission from his parents to kill him which would explain why he killed Lor San Tekka after the latter brought up his family, I mean if I thought my parents okayed my murder and my uncle, or aunt, tried to kill me I wouldn't take too kindly to someone basically telling me my family is good and go home to them, and maybe his reaction to Han telling him that they want him to come home.

 

It could be. Or it could be Ben told his parents what happened and Han and Leia forgave Luke after hearing his explanation. If somebody tried to kill me and then my family gave the guy a pass...I would be mad at the entire family. How dare they side with him. Because if Ben really in his heart believes Luke tried to kill him, he would be pissed if his parents believed anything but his version. He would feel betrayed by his Jedi Master and betrayed by his parents. Then if Snoke plays master manipulator he could convince the young man that they are trying to hold him back from his true potential. He is the grandson of Darth Vader...the last of the bloodline.

Kylo is one very messed up dude. He is as mentally troubled as he is evil. He shows very little empathy for anybody and that is not normal.

That was another good point about that OOC Luke contemplating murder scene...it helps explain why Kylo turned away from his family. He is broken and looking for a place where he belongs. Since it is obvious he will never be a Jedi he gets manipulated into becoming the opposite of a Jedi and even then he is a failure. Snoke mocking him and his Vader-wanna-be mask just reinforced how much of a failure he is. The Supreme Leader made a mistake in ridiculing him. Snoke is important to Kylo because in the past he gave Kylo the ego strokes he needed to feel good about himself. He has a fragile ego and when Snoke made fun of him he lashed out.

 

I saw it today! Don't have anything really intelligent to say about it yet, but I enjoyed the film and want to adopt all the animals.

 

Snoke was also messing with Ben's mind so he could have twisted the situation too and when you add how any sane person would react if they woke up and someone, let alone someone they knew and trusted, was standing over them with a deadly weapon.

This is a different scenario but a woman i know didn't feel safe in her mother's house and one night her mother's significance other came into her room in the middle of the night to get an extension cord that happened to be over her bed, she woke up and pulled a knife on him because she didn't know why he was in her room and he freaked out. He really shouldn't have gone in her room in the first place at night or had someone else go and get it.

 

Not on this topic (great discussion, though!) today I was reminded one of the reasons I love Star Wars so much.
I was reading an article that was hilariously titled The Last Jedi's Best Creatures are the Judgmental Fish Nuns and I thought to myself, I bet those Judgemental Fish Nuns (whom I loved so much!) have a species name outside of 'Caretakers' that we heard in the movie, and probably have names themselves.

Googled "Caretakers and Star Wars" and got back that they are female Lanai. The male Lanai are known as visitors. And yes, some of them had names. For example:

This is Alcida-Auka

I just love that they put so much detail into not only naming the species, putting thought into their lives, but also to give them names.
Now I need to get the visual guide for TLJ so I can find more!

 

I too was a fan of the Judgmental Fish Nuns. They looked like they’d had just about enough of these scruffy humans making a mess out of everything.

 

Anyone as a writer or reader of fanfic or of the books before the retcon a little bit troubled by the complete break from known operating procedure by the Rebels? One of the things that made it so hard for the Empire to strike at them was that when trouble popped into the system they scattered usually with the snub fighters and some light capital ships fighting a delaying action so the main fleet can jump away. Having everyone including the fighters board one Mon Cal and jumping out for the sake of your big plot point seems just wrong. I mean they could have still tracked Leia's ship while the rest scattered and jumped to separate spots before heading to a rally point and the plot would have survived. Plus did the shuttles not have hyperdrives because why weren't they dropping off in twos and threes while the capital ships still had fuel and could provide cover. I have so many questions lol

 

Leia & Vice Admiral Whoozy did not seem to have very solid understanding of tactics. Frankly, Ackbar should have been running things. Face it, Leia (while we all love her!) was a Senator & trained as a politician. Even her role in the Rebellion had more to do with her diplomatic abilities. Based on Whoozie's lovely evening gown, I'd bet she was also a Senator who joined. Not sure the shuttles did have hyperdrives... but even if the First Order could track through hyperspace, I doubt they could have tracked more than one at a time.

 

Ackbar was killed in the bridge attack that sent Leia out into the vacuum of space.

On an unrelated note, has it occurred to anyone to ask exactly how Ben knows Rey's parentage? Especially if she is a nobody? What reason would Ben have for snooping into the family history of some random girl on a backwater planet like Jakku? For that matter, exactly HOW would you dig that information up? This just occurred to me tonight, and now I'm not at all sure that I believe him. There's no plausible reason for him to know that, so I think there's a very good chance we find out in Episode IX that he was lying.

 

The Lanai rock, YES. But I could have done without the Thala-Sirens.

Agree with Jedi_Lover about everything in that first of two posts other than the prequels (I like all of SW) - people change and if we don't get to see their changes, we might as well be surprised.

 

Apparently he saw it in her mind when they entered each other’s mind.

Vice Admiral Holdo(sp?) could have come straight there from a party and didn’t have time to change or her uniform was somewhere else. There are stories of people, usually doctors, nurses and emergency personnel, showing up at the scene/work in nice clothes and in one true story I read a female technician was dressed up for a date with makeup, a nice dress and heels.

A more disturbing true story is a SWAT Team being called to the scene of a bank robbery and shooting and because most of them were away from their work vehicle they didn’t have their gear and were wearing shorts.

After thinking about the scene with the Mirror Reys I remembered something from the Yoda Arc from the last season of TCW. Yoda enters the Tree Cave and Qui-Gon tells him ‘give power to what you fear and it will appear’. Rey is afraid of being alone so the cave/glass showed her a line of herself with no end in sight.

Okay, now that I wrote it down it seems less plausible but I don’t think the Dark
Side would show her or anyone else something good or reveal anything you want.

The Tree Cave showed Yoda a blurry Order 66 and It showed Luke his face under Vader’s mask. Could It have been warning them? Possibly, but it could have been taunting them or giving life to their deepest fears. Yoda worries that the War will destroy the Jedi and It shows him Order 66. Luke is a little harder, he could have been afraid he would meet his father’s fate and It showed him his face beneath the mask.




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This is an interesting article.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-24-biggest-questions-we-have-after-seeing-star-wars-1821308682

 

One issue I have, on thinking about it, was pointed out in one of the essays/reviews I read. There are multiple plot lines going on - I get that. No problem. But the one with Leia takes place immediately after the end of TFA and seems to only run a few days. The one with Rey also picks up immediately after the end of TFA but seems to run a few weeks, don't you think? And then we have time for Finn and Rose to hop over to Casino World and do their little plot line thing, too, while the fleet is in retreat. How long was Leia and the Resistance fleet on the run with the First Order right on their heels? Days? weeks?