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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Bond Between Finn and Rey Going Forward

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Beardwalker, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 14, 2016
    *sigh* anyways, that discussion's over with since clearly we're not gonna change each other's minds and it'll only further derail the topic and create more toxicity. And I'm not even gonna continue the topic of other romances because this thread is solely focused on the relationship between Finn and Rey, and there are about 4 or 5 other threads where >that< particular romance always gets brought up, so no point in bringing it here.


    But that's enough of that. That being said, I look forward to how their relationship will evolve, and I do believe that they will officially begin their romantic relationship maybe towards the end of IX like Anakin & Padme at the end of AoTC. And I look forward to whatever plans LF has in store for those two down the line. Hopefully something good and not the treatment that the OT group has gotten.

    There's a lot of potential there and I'd hate to just have it go stagnant so early on with no further exploration. Especially since we're supposed to be getting much more of them down the line. And yes, it would mean a lot to me since I would like a black and white romance portrayed on such a large scale world wide franchise as Star Wars. It would shut down all the racists completely and it would be extremely satisfying to watch.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  2. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    I don't have any problem seeing how they could integrate some conflict into their relationship if they wanted to:

    Rey can believe that Finn and Rose have a thing going on, and not get jealous but kind of saddened and maybe embrace the Jedi celibacy thing. Finn can be attracted to Rey, want to pursue her, settle things with Rose as friends... But think that she's unattainable because of the Jedi celibacy thing. Cue a movie full of them being entertainingly frustrated and maybe getting a bit snippy with each other while still being very close, and then something happens to trigger a realization that, oh, Finn and Rise aren't a thing and if a Jedi would be better served pursuing a selfless relationship with an equally selfless companion, then hey, make love not war.

    Boom. Problem solved. And honestly, in a film that's a guaranteed to be full of stuff as IX is, a smaller scale conflict like that might be the best idea.

    I don't really see JJ Abrams and co. pursuing Reylo that much further; Abrams introduced the concept in an unsettling and creepy way with the mental war in the interrogation room and Johnson gave it an ending. Kylo Ren hasn't progressed to a character worthy of ending with Rey, and his determination to be evil is a major hurdle on a conceptual level; as others have noted, having Rey fall for the neonazi privileged sadist who manipulated her, slew a father figure (or two), and maimed her friend, all while outright refusing to intellectually consider changing his morality, well... That would be a kind of disgusting idea. Maybe he can turn the page in one movie. But it'd be trite and ugly if he did so to pursue her.
     
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  3. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    Of the major TLJ tie-ins (not counting children's picture books), Rose is the star of two, Cobalt Squadron and the upcoming Rose Tico: My Resistance. The only other characters who can claim that are Paige Tico (Cobalt Squadron and Bomber Command) and Phasma (Phasma and Captain Phasma). (Luke and Leia might qualify with The Legends of Luke Skywalker, Leia: Princess of Alderaan and Storms of Crait, but none of them are directly connected to the movie.) That's a lot of exposure to give a character you don't care about.

    I'm still undecided what I want the Finn/Rose relationship to be going forward (I wouldn't be opposed to it if done well, but I have always liked the idea of Rey and Finn getting together somewhere down the line), however, I was very invested in both characters.

    I'd like that, too. Actually, I'd like it if all the trilogy's core heroes (Rey, Finn, Poe, and Rose, with BB-8 as the plus one) could work together a lot in the final movie.

    I do think that there is a basis for the theory. However, I thought Boyega was saying that the duo didn't love each other in a romantic way and that TFA wasn't shot with a romantic love story in mind. Also, most of the clues that the characters could be harboring or developing romantic feelings for each other are in the various TFA novelizations, which may not pan out. Like I said, it's not a wacky doodle idea, but I don't think it's a given and it could very well be that we're reading too much into things.

    Her tasing him was because he was trying to jump ship, which saw as, among other things, being disrespectful to the people who'd given their lives in the battle, including her sister, which was still a very raw thing for her.

    In the words of one of the subjects of the conversation: "Thank you! (Junkyard.)" (although I'm not sure she was ever in love with him in the first place).
     
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  4. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 14, 2016
    @WebLurker Yeah but given our current political state, and how that scene was COMPLETELY unnecessary and avoidable...it just bothered me. It just felt like Finn had to get knocked out or hurt once more for no real reason. Especially since he had a valid reason that he was GOING to explain but she knocked him out before letting him. Like wow it's not like he was a threat to you.

    And when he DOES explain that he's trying to save someone, she calls him a selfish traitor and basically ignores what he says...even though she applies that same logic to that stunt she pulls later on like she's educating him or something. Finn wasn't dooming the Resistance by wanting to get the beacon away. But had Rey and Luke not shown up, Rose would've been dooming the Resistance by doing what she did. Not that I wanted Finn to die, but the same logic applies.

    That's why I don't like her character. She's that way throughout the whole movie. I felt like her character was just there to 'splain everything to stupid Finn and boss him around. And don't even get me started on the deleted scene where she chastises Finn for "pining for Rey." Mind your business.
    Ugh. Like I said, she's pretty hypocritical later on.

    But again, this is about Finn and Rey, there's alot of things I didn't like about TLJ. I could go on all day. Lol

    I just felt like it was different between Finn and Rey. Like yeah, they got off on the wrong foot, but overall they warmed up to each other rather quickly. Especially when Rey thought Finn was in the Resistance. And Rey didn't criticize Finn for wanting to leave after he explains his tragic backstory. Her attitude changed completely from thinking his was a coward, to just wanting him to stay.

    I got the impression in TFA, even more now in TLJ, that Finn and Rey's care for each other was equal. With Rose it was just...rushed and inconsistent, and it doesn't even feel like she respects him through a LOT of the movie for me.

    Even the little snarky, "Oh course you do" comment on the Supremacy was like geez Rose what's your problem.

    It just felt like at every turn she's gotta talk down to this guy like he's an idiot. leave him tf alone.

    EDIT: ok end of rant for real this time
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  5. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    o_Oo_O but we're talking about Star Wars, not Grey's Anatomy!
     
  6. Eeyore freak

    Eeyore freak Jedi Knight star 2

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    May 19, 2016
    ^^So a romance needs drama to work, but only a certain kind of drama?

    I’m confused
     
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  7. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Grey’s Anatomy is a good example of why I am opposed to the idea that a romantic story must have tension. Meredith and Derek’s shenanigans got annoying and should not have lasted five seasons or however long it was. (I watched for seven seasons and I think they had finally settled down.) The friendship dynamics in that show were monumentally better than the romantic ones and I wish they had crossed over more.

    I think Finn and Rey would have enough drama going on just due to the war and being separated, and they would have their individual dramas with Rey trying to train herself (with no one other than possibly Luke’s ghost) and Finn overcoming being a First Order stormtrooper. I don’t see the need for drama between them.
     
  8. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    You're not confused at all, you understood it perfectly!
    In an epic story the drama must be existential, about the character's place in the world and his purpose, not some gossips in Jersey Shore's style.

    For Finn/Rose, for example, it was exactly like that: Finn learned from Rose the altruism and his role as Resistance fighter.
     
  9. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 28, 2016
    They need to be careful if they decide to make FinnRey or FinnPoe now because Rose is our first asian woman as lead. They can't just kill her or ignore her existence to make the other romance to happen, Rose need to be treat well.

    I didn't imagine Finn/Rose romance, just a friendship but Lucasfilm made a decision and they need to know how treat it. They already killed 2 woc (Korr Sella in TFA and Paige Tico in TLJ) Rose need to end this trilogy in a decent arc

    PS: FinnRey hug was very sweet. Rey just smiled to Finn, Chewie and Luke (when he mentioned Han).
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  10. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Force Ghost star 5

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    May 8, 2014
    There was no drama between Rose and Finn at all.

    No romantic drama
    No contentious drama
    Nothing
     
  11. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    I'm fine if you didn't like it or you think it was poorly executed. But how can you deny its existence, at least in Johnson's intent? They moved from an electric shock to a kiss [:D][:D]
     
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  12. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Eh, I think you've kind of exposed the weak spot of the Finn/Rose relationship while simultaneously showing why Finn/Rey fans may already feel like they've gotten the drama you seek.

    TLJ Finn doesn't actually struggle and grow. He gets *educated* in information he didn't have before, but due to his storyline's sloppy plotting, choppy editing and lack of actual plot significance, w enever see him driven by conflicting desires; RJ's stated intent of showing Finn learn to fight for more people besides Rey is only briefly touched on in his first scene with Rose... And is promptly resolved the second the two of them start composing a strategy for deactivating the hyperspace tracker. Finn's intial admiration of the Canto Bight casino is also resolved after Rose gives a short expositional speech, so there's no real compelling drama there. And Finn's charge at the laser lacks the storyline support for the ferocity and anger Rose is supposed to be teaching him to ignore when she rams him out of the way, and further undercut by the fact the laser takes a good 15 more seconds to actually fire, making her perch on his lips more awkward since an observant audience member may think "Wait a second, if the laser is only firing now, couldn't he have reached the thing before it fired and, y'know, saved everyone he loves like you're telling him he should have?"

    RJ dropped his chance to give them some deep conflict and drama when he decided to cut the reveal of Finn being in the bomber with Paige. There was a chance to really tackle both Rose and Finn's philosophies and personalities by having an ongoing debate over whether Finn was shaming Paige's sacrifice by running away or honoring her sacrifice by taking a chance to save a friend after holding yet another one who died in his arms. But nope. He literally didn't want to write that.

    In contrast, TFA has Finn and Rey dealing with more than just bickering: Finn both lied to Rey out of some desire to be admired by her, and allies with her at least in part out of some feeling of responsibility towards dragging her into danger. But as the story goes on, Finn finds himself both indebted to her and yet also still driven to flee the First Order. That scene where he confesses he lied to her is all about the conflicting feelings and desires he has, and where she tries to appeal to him to stick it out with them. And ultimately, her being captured pushes him to change into a Resistance fighter, and his injury at Kylo's hands pushes her to finally embrace the Force.

    That's probably the biggest reason why even after a film keeping Rey and Finn apart and clearly trying to get something at least sort of setup between Finn and Rose, most people don't see the latter as a stronger relationship than the former.
     
  13. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    What you've just said is perfect, a part for a single small detail: TFA is finished and nothing has happened. As I previously mentioned, during that movie there was indeed a real drama between the two characters. However, as you can notice, the vast majority of the events you have correctly explained correspond to twists that have already been resolved, so they have no relevance anymore. On the other hand, even though maybe it was poorly written and even slightly a cliche, Rose/Finn is recent, fresh and, much more importantly, it did have a sort of happy ending.
    It's more or less like if I played the guitar for the whole night in order to flirt with a girl at a party but eventually she went home with a friend of mine, even though he had just arrived.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  14. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    So yeah, we agree. The Last Jedi and the Finn and Rose plot sucks. :p

    Just kidding. But, if I can comment on you analogy for fun...


    We should replace "friend of mine" with "guy who sliced open my back, bashed her father figure's skull in, strapped her to a table, tried to violate her mind, and then I went to the bar with a girl for some drinks and she pecked me from out of nowhere, and the first girl showed up saying she'd made a terrible, terrible, and oddly underwritten mistake."

    Seriously, the freshness of Rose and Finn means nothing to me. It felt too badly plotted to work.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  15. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    According to this, they were going for a weird, messy, tumultuous relationship between Finn and Rose. For both romantic and contentious drama.

    And she kissed him because she saw his growth in the film.
    http://variety.com/2017/film/news/kelly-marie-tran-star-wars-last-jedi-1202646642/

    But anyway. Back to Rey and Finn.

    Will they tell each other what the other went through in TLJ.

    Will Finn tell her how his actions got 90% of the Resiatnce killed?

    Will Rey tell Finn about her Force connection with Kylo and how she helped him kill Snoke?


    Whether they're best friends or lovers, will they tell each other their darkest secrets?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  16. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    ;)

    That's fine for me, but still... now it's too late, it can't be undone.
    Also, while you were writing your funny analogy, didn't you realize that, despite sounding absolutely nonsensical, yours was a pretty f-ing powerful story? This is precisely why I'm skeptical about Finn/Rey.
     
  17. modaubr

    modaubr Jedi Knight star 1

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    Mar 13, 2016
    This hug and this smile were so cathartic.
     
  18. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Eh, no. I realized it was, without any nuance or professional level touch, the plot outline for a particularly poisonous "50 shades of Gray"-esque fanfiction plotline.
     
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  19. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    You're underestimating your narrative skills
     
  20. CosmicDust

    CosmicDust Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jul 16, 2017
    Romantic tension hinges on what a character wants versus what a character needs, like any good character arc, but the wants and needs of a romantic arc are dependent on the romance. For instance, we could have a workaholic firefighter and she wants a promotion, and thus works every single holiday, overtime, odd hours, she goes above and beyond for the promotion. But actually, this is only what the character thinks she wants. In actually, she is working hard on the promotion because she hates how quiet it is at home. She hates that she lives too far away to visit family at the holidays. Everything is a reminder of how lonely she feels, how she wants a family. She wants a promotion, but needs companionship. Perhaps her love interest is a wedding planner and he is really friendly, always knows who's who and what's happening, and so he can help bring new energy into her life by helping expose her to new people, new interests.

    The drama here doesn't even hinge on something like "Rey saw Finn place a blanket over Rose. Ohh, drama!" The drama isn't supposed to be melodramatic like that, and in fact it may not even reference actual feelings. It's more about the dynamic established between two characters and how they help each other grow.

    With Han/Leia, an example for them is that Leia has lost Alderaan, her family, her home, and she is finding it hard to trust that anything is permanent anymore. Then comes Han who she's develop feelings for, but he's a smuggler, a nomad. She wants him to stay, but can't trust that he will. She needs him to stay.... and meanwhile, Han has difficulties feeling like he's wanted or needed for anything but smuggling. He'd love to stay, but needs to hear her say it, which she won't do because it's hard to put herself out there with the stakes.

    Also, the very relationship should have some element of drama to it. Take Finn/Poe for example. Likely not everyone was briefed about Finn (and even then, Holdo flippantly referred to him as "a stormtrooper" so there's presumably animosity there), and those briefed were likely almost all blown out during Kylo's attack in his TIE. So what if Finn's past as a trooper comes out among the survivors? After the FO picked off nearly everyone from the Resistance, will being close to Finn risk Poe's career because being so close to a former stormtrooper in these tense times make it difficult for Poe to prove himself as a trustworthy leader? Finn and Poe could have no other love interest and be very caring and open to each other in this scenario, however the very existence of their relationship is an element of drama.

    This is partly why I can't get into shipping Finn/Rey (and if you hear some people say they would be boring, this is why at the crux of it). It's difficult to find that kind of conflict between them, and any opportunity to set up that conflict in TFA or TLJ weren't utilized.

    I really love this development for Finn and Rey because after TFA when I learned people shipped it, the first thing I thought was, "Ok, but where's the drama in these two getting together?" I tried to think of something and the only thing I could think of was -- after TFA, they have a certain image of each other, and TLJ needs to challenge it, notably with Rey going a bit dark and still having remnants of it moving into IX.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I like my characters to be a bit more self-aware and in touch with their emotions than that, to the point where I get frustrated and annoyed when they aren’t, as opposed to being excited or entertained by it.

    Hopefully that makes sense.
     
  22. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 14, 2016
    There's enough drama going on in the galaxy. Finn and Rey have enough establishment and chemistry to make a romance work and still take part in a good story in Episode IX and beyond. I'm not sure why that concept is such an ordeal. Finn & Rose would never replace the Han & Leia bickering love dynamic. In fact it would constantly feel like a wannabe relationship and it's tiring. I don't feel like watching Finn constantly get talked down to and treated like he's the incompetent husband who Rose constantly has to "keep in line." It's just not necessary and it's stereotypical and it's just ugh.

    The reason I like Finn and Rey is because there's no real quarrel that they have against each other, but there's still conflict around them that they can deal with together. In a healthy, non manipulative, non forced destiny bs manner. I just don't see why after TFA, people thought that Finn and Rey would be rushed and unnecessary, but so many people on this thread are raving about why Finn & Rose would suddenly be perfect? Well I think I might know why but still.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  23. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Force Ghost star 5

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    May 8, 2014
    You're absolutely right that if FinnRey happens it would look terrible for Rose. Which is why I hope no romance happens in IX. Lucasfilm clearly don't know how to handle love stories in their movies. The curse of Anakin and Padme's romance continues to plague SW movies.
     
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  24. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I don’t think Rose should be killed off, and I’m sure there is more than one way to make a Finn/Rey romance happen without taking away from her, especially if Episode IX is as long as TLJ.
     
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  25. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 14, 2016
    The same way people feel about Rey not getting a romance. How about they just give Rose a respectable and significant arc that contributes greatly to the plot of the film and helps set her apart as one of the trilogies heroes? Same with Poe.

    I swear people just cannot have Rey and Finn be central to Episode IX lol.

    Rian thought it would be smarter to film a scene where she's just jealous of Rey the whole time, like....maybe that's where he messed up? He made it where the only memorable thing for most audiences was just her weird crush on Finn, which is what a lot of people on this website were worried about initally.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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