PT Implication of Mace's decision in Palpatine's office

@Vorax Due process is an essential component of any liberal democracy. A semi-autonomous, unelected body, such as the Jedi, can’t just go around arresting public officials…and the movies make clear that the Chancellor doesn’t have the same kind of authority over the Jedi that, for example, the President has over the United States Armed Forces.

Windu essentially attempted a coup d’état…and Jedi should not be attempting coups.

 

I look at it this way. Mace was completely justified in going to arrest Sheev because he was active on both sides of the war. However I doubt there was any law against the Sith having any sort of power in the Republican

 

Given that the Sith had used that power to rule and enslave others, I'm going to think it was probably illegal. Otherwise, he wouldn't hide that he was a Sith.

Actually, Harry did act within the law as much as he despised the changes made during the late 60's. That was the point of the confrontation with Lt. Briggs and the rogue cops.

No one is denying that Palpatine lied about his situation. The point is that Palpatine manipulated both Jedi into doing what he wanted, by exploiting the Jedi Code, just as the Jedi had manipulated the Sith using the greedy nature of the Sith against them. He conned Anakin into thinking that the Jedi were in active rebellion against the government and that his death would result in Padme's death. And he got Mace to break the Code, mere days after Anakin did the same thing and felt guilty over it.

This ain't the wild west. Even the wild west wasn't the wild west. In the real world, this happens all the time. If a cop chooses to use excessive force after a surrender, that officer will be held accountable.

The Republic has similar laws and so does the Jedi Order. That's why Anakin feels guilty after killing Dooku, instead of feeling justified.

Right, but Anakin also was taught that the Jedi are supposed to adhere to the Code and not behave as he had done. He knows that what he has done to date was wrong, but he was also told that Jedi like Mace Windu, would adhere to the Code. So when someone that he admired once starts behaving in a way that contradicts thirteen years of training, what do you think he's supposed to think? To feel?

The Senate still exists regardless of what Palpatine had done up to that point and what happened with the Separatists. Palpatine is not the government yet. It is still the legitimate government and that doesn't change even after re-branding it as the Empire. This only changes after the war is long over.

There's only one Sith Lord now and Grievous is dead. The Citadel is still under Jedi control and already has Pong Krell and Barriss Offee locked inside. The Council will assign all the best Jedi to stand guard. Ones who cannot be swayed by him.

The Clone Army can only issue Protocol 66 if he is able to do so, which he does not issue until after Mace is dead. You think the Jedi will let him near a comlink? Oh and Palpatine himself never communicated with the Kaminoans. Dooku did and he's dead as a doornail. The military leadership was mostly in favor of the Chancellor, but once accused of crimes, they would stand down save for Tarkin and Krennic. But they don't have the resources to act. The Separatist Council will surrender once they learn that Grievous is dead and Sidious has been captured. The Clone Army and the Republic military will continue to try and maintain order along with the Jedi and local security.

The Jedi aren't pacifists, but they're also not cold blooded killers who do as they wish and break their Code on a whim. That's how the Sith came about. That's why Obi-wan doesn't kill Anakin on Mustafar and why Luke spares his father and his nephew.

 

In my defense, the last time I saw Dirty Harry was on a flight from Singapore to New Jersey in May 2005.

Regardless, the point stands. Mace Windu is supposed to be a Jedi Master, not Joe Arpaio.

 

It is interesting that the link between Anakin's execution of Dooku, and Mace's actions here, are presented in two different ways in the movie and novelisation, but are still quite present in both.

In the film you have Anakin's repeated dialogue -
Anakin: "...Yes but he was an unarmed prisoner. I shouldn't have done that, it's not the Jedi way."
then later
Anakin: "It's not the Jedi way! He must live!"

and in the novel -
(Mace): "He's too dangerous to be left alive. If you could have taken Dooku alive, would you have?"
Skywalker's face swept itself clean of emotion. "That was different--"
(Perhaps Yoda's "Only different in your mind" has some relevance here.)

Either way, the implication in what causes Anakin to lose faith in the Jedi enough to turn, is woven into the movies.
For example, as morbid as it sounds; notice it is always a beheading taking place when a Jedi ultimately fails.
Anakin beheads the first Tuskens he kills when his mother dies - this is his "Dagobah cave" failure, albeit further down the dark path than Luke's failure (beheading the Vader apparition) took Luke in ESB.
Then there is also Anakin beheading Dooku (his Master's master's master, a "great grandfather" in a way) matching Mace attempting to behead Palpatine for the greater good. It seems interwoven from this angle.

 

Yes I think the film was brilliant showing us how Windu/the Jedi actually had Palpatine at the end of a lightsaber. This was the moment. This was the defining moment in time that would decide the fate of the galaxy and set the course of history. Palpatine was about to lose. And it is Anakin's turn, his betrayal that takes us down one path of events versus another.

I personally thought the Republic was utterly corrupt. In that way, Palpatine was right. And the Empire certainly brought about a needed change. But I didn't think the Jedi were evil. Mixing those two issues is where the problem is. If only Palpatine and the Jedi worked together. Oh the possibilities.

But back to the point, yes Mace Windu's decision might have been out of the strictly legal parameters, but indeed it was for the "Greater good" and he had given the Sith Lord two chances to surrender. The rest of the arrest team were taken out.

I think Mace's line to Anakin that, "He has control of the Senate and the Courts! He's too dangerous to be left alive!" was pertinent. Windu had exhausted his options and had tried his very best to make this an arrest. But he was then going to do what had to be done.

I do think though, the Jedi actions were akin to a coup. Palpatine was the legitimate leader of the Galactic Republic. The Jedi Council were attempting to take over as he said. Of course their reasons were legitimate and morally correct also. Not only was Palpatine manipulating the entire situation, but he had deceived everyone and in theory was a traitor as Windu said.

Interesting political set up! Had Windu succeeded, it would have been a Jedi coup and indeed a Jedi led junta (as espoused but the Council once Anakin left the room) running the Republic for the foreseeable future until a peaceful transition was complete. Would they relinquish their power? Palpatine hinted at this during his Plageuis speech in the Opera house.

Palpatine winning the struggle owing to Anakin's betrayal was perhaps his sweet victory. And all the more ironic, since as commander of the Galactic Republic, he also issued a legal executive order to eliminate the Jedi, now enemies of the Republic! It was masterful storytelling. And I suppose a legitimate order given he is the highest ranking person who outranks the Jedi generals (who had failed to remove him). However, that they were killed without a trial either, one wonders whether Anakin really cared about such things.

 

The Jedi were legally in the wrong in this instance. It was a coup. Mace heard Anakin spill the beans and the Jedi who had already been searching for a Sith Lord in Palpatine's inner circle and who knew something was amiss decided that was it he was going to deal with this situation now and then.

 

im a fan of palpatine knowing the strengths and weaknesses of all of the masters so to me he played mace like a puppet master in that duel he calls to anakin to tempt him to come knowing he will. he just has to stall for time which he does now i do believe mace would of arrested him until the whole lightning thing but in my head cannon thats palps playing at mace's emotions/ego knowing he is the most bloodthirsty of the council.

 

Agreed. They might have been morally right, but it was a Jedi coup. And since it failed (owing to Anakin's betrayal), it played right into Palpatine's hands.

I love how Mace bested Palpatine and yet again offered him the chance to surrender. That line, "You are under arrest, my Lord!" is golden.

But it was a coup. Had the Jedi won, Mace and the Council would have run the Republic as a Jedi junta, commanding the Grand Army.

Since they lost, they were declared enemies of the Republic.

 

I can't agree with that. It's clear that Palps has been a mentor to Anikin for years. And in the absence of Qui-Gon, is the closest thing to a father figure in Anikin's life. He even confided in him about the Tusken slaughter. Sure, his need for Palps is probably paramount, but to suggest there is no compassion underpinning that, is to misread the situation. IMOOC.

 

Vader had no compassion for Sidious, but Anakin had compassion for Palpatine.

 

Agreed. He feels compassion for Palpatine before the turn, the father-figure element would still play on Anakin even after Anakin thinks Palpatine has betrayed him by turning out to be a Sith.
He needs Palpatine, yes, but this becomes the motive more and more as time passes. By the time of the Mustafar scenes it has become all about power and ruling the galaxy himself.

 

How so? You seem to be confusing his friendship to him, a friendship which was betrayed and ended when Palpatine revealed himself to be the Sith Lord, with compassion. Compassion is not part of the equation at all in regards to his decision to save him. It's his need of Sidious knowledge to save Padmé, nothing more. It's selfishness and power. The opposite of compassion.

"I need him."

That's all that drives his decision. That's the sole reason for why he's there.

 

Anakin seems pretty emotionally attached to Palpatine in the novelisation.
Like when they are on their way to rescue Palpatine at the start of the film Anakin is imagining what could be happening to Palpatine and getting pretty upset. He obviously feels a fair amount of compassion for him, like Palpatine is a father to him.

And Anakin is driven to anger to defeat and kill Dooku when Palpatine and Obi-Wan's lives are threatened.

Addittionally, I have long seen a parallel between Anakin and Luke in The Emperor's comment to Vader in ROTJ "His compassion for you will be his undoing."
This sounds like a pretty good application to part of Anakin's ultimate turn. His compassion is arguably part of his weakness, then Palpatine tries it again and perhaps karmically Luke's compassion in ROTJ saves he and his father and ends Sidious's reign.

 

I think the confusion is stemming from the fact that compassion and attachment have extremely specific meanings in the pseudo-Buddhism at play in Lucas' Star Wars. Compassion and attachment are complete polar opposites, and valuing someone/feeling their suffering/wishing peace for them primarily because of your own personal relationship with and feelings for that person (instead of feeling all of those things for everyone because everyone deserves them) is not compassion. It's not even selfless. It's making your love for that person dependent upon their making you happy or otherwise having a beneficial effect upon your self.

It's why Anakin's love of Padme is selfish and conditional: because the moment she doesn't appease the desires for the present and future that his self is clinging to, he immediately attacks her. Similarly, as Alexrd said, Anakin's desire to save Palpatine was rooted entirely in his own self, whether that be his desire to keep someone because that someone is a personal friend, or his desire to save a life solely because that life can supposedly give him something he wants. And as far as Anakin is often concerned, people who don't have anything to offer his sense of self (whether that be warm feelings or power) can go right to hell.

No one is obligated to agree with Buddhist thought, Buddhist themes, or Lucas' pseudo-Buddhist writing if it's not their thing, of course, but that's still what he was working with when he wrote the story. So mixing the two words up kinda makes a mess of things.

 

Good points, I have heard similar on these forums before.

I think where i might be confused is the relationship of empathy to the specific Buddhist concept of compassion.
I kind of figured because Anakin is empathising with Palpatine's situation then it would go hand in hand with feeling compassion for him. Like for example the thought of Palpatine in pain at Grievous's or Dooku's hands makes Anakin almost sick to the stomach. The first thing he asks when he sees Palpatine is "Are you alright?"
But yeah, maybe this is missing the point.

I think outside comparing compassion against attachment as you described, Anakin at first still feels something for Palpatine outside how Palpatine can serve him. That's all I'm really saying. I think it would perhaps have been more prominent in the original cut of ROTS where Palpatine reveals he is literally Anakin's creator, his father. Anakin's initial response is denial, much like Luke when he hears this from Vader. Creating a bit more of a link to Luke's compassion for his "evil father" in the OT. Edit - I mean, even Luke and Vader/Anakin's compassion for each other at the end of ROTJ is largely because of a familial link, is it not? Granted it is just different because Luke is loving Anakin/Vader unconditionally despite of all and anything he has done, and Anakin ends up loving Luke even at the cost of his life.

At the final moment (when Anakin strikes Mace to save Palpatine) I indeed think it would be silly for me to define this as much of a compassionate act, it is purely acting desperately on his fear and attachment. But perhaps Anakin has reflected on the lack of compassion he held for Dooku when he killed him, and this guilt influences his decision. Sourcing back to his own brief speech on a Jedi's compassion, unconditional love, in AOTC.

Palpatine has appeared to show Anakin compassion where Mace isn't portraying this for Palpatine (and hasn't exactly in the past been exceedingly compassionate to Anakin). But yes it does seem a little "you scratched my back, so I'll scratch yours" if Anakin's feelings about Palpatine as a person even have any bearing on his saving Palpatine's life.

Out of curiosity, earlier when Palpatine reveals his identity, do you feel Anakin resists killing him there solely because he can help save Padme? Or because he still feels some empathy for Palpatine and wants to do the right thing?

 

Yeah, the trick is to compare it to how Anakin acts towards the people he doesn't have a personal relationship with that he gets anything out of. Like the Tusken noncombatants and their babies. The Tuskens not only didn't have a relationship with him that he benefited from emotionally, some of them hurt him, and his ability to care about their well-being even on the most basic level as living beings experiencing their own suffering went so far out the window that he went and even killed people who didn't - couldn't - participate. Anakin makes a pattern out of this kind of thinking for 4.5 films; if you're not with him you're against him and he'll do terrible, awful things to you and convince himself you deserved it, because you slighted his sense of self by either not giving him what he wanted (literally, or emotionally/psychologically) or taking something away.

Basically, it's all still conditional and dependent. A real Jedi would have taken Shmi's body and walked away, only harming in self-defense or in defense of other farmers while the Jedi was still in the area. Would have been in pain, yes, but it would have been primarily focused on pain for what Shmi went through in her last days and ALSO pain for the Tuskens who were trapped in the cycle of violence and ignorance, instead of pain focused on himself and "you hurt me, so it's time for you and your babies to suffer for your crime against my self."

Jedi have friends too, even close ones, and love them, but the characters who exhibit Star Wars compassion are the ones who don't restrict what we think of as compassion just to the people they personally like (or take their 'compassion' away when the conditions that make someone 'deserve it' are not met). So when Anakin described compassion as unconditional love, he wasn't wrong, he was just being either ignorant or willfully dishonest about his own ability to feel compassion/unconditional love in the first place.

Now SW does get a little fuzzy because one of the major departures from true Buddhism is that everyone effectively achieves nirvana after a single lifetime and the Jedi are permitted to kill like the samurai they were also based on, but it's still a Dark Side act to do it for self-related reasons (like damning trillions of people to suffer because of your own anger and pain and desire vs. blowing up the Death Star because trillions of people will suffer forever if you don't). So while it is technically okay to kill someone, you darn well better be in a selfless state of mind to be sure you're listening to the Force telling you to do it, and not to your Self telling you to do it. And even then, you should still feel compassion for the people you kill, no matter how necessary it is, because their lives and their darkness led them to that moment.

Regarding Mace, I want to note that "compassion" does not necessarily mean "nice." Gautama Buddha himself was not above telling his student monks to their faces if they were being a dumbass. I would have to dig through the texts on my kindle for an exact quote, but I definitely remember more than a few instances of what amounted to "when did I ever say that, stupid one? How did you even get that out of anything I said? Sit down and listen up while I set you straight." But he wasn't doing it because he wanted to see them humiliated (besides, feeling humiliation is rooted in ideas of self/ego anyway*), he was doing it because people are chronically trapped in delusions and ignorance and sometimes need a metaphorical slap upside the head to get their attention so they listen and stop endlessly burning their hand on the cosmic stove, wondering why it hurts.

I really, really don't want to get into the endless cycle of repeating topics on the subject of whether the Jedi were "nice enough" to Anakin, cause I've already done that too many times and sometimes now it makes my eyes cross, so I'll just say that I think the Jedi were fine. They didn't have any obligation to take him in at first when they thought (with good reason) that it wouldn't have been doing him any favors, and they didn't have an obligation to pat his ego when doing so would have been directly against the teachings that Anakin should have been listening to instead of to Palpatine.

(*Speaking of which, this is a really important thing to note in light of Anakin screaming about not getting the master title. Reacting the way he did was pure "my self/ego has been slighted, HOW CAN YOU NOT GIVE IT TO ME" no matter how the novelization tried to spin it - making it pretty darn scandalous behavior as a demonstration of ignorant view. In the world of monks, you bow your head and you say 'thank you' and you sit down, and if you feel personally slighted that's something to take a long, brutally honest look at yourself about.)

This I can't comment on, it's been too long since I last watched ROTS and I'm usually more interested in other characters when I do, so I'd just be making stuff up trying to talk about the finer details of a single scene.

Also, uh, wow, this got long and my brain is crashing pretty bad, so hopefully it's coherent and this is probably where I stop for the night.

 

But what makes this situation incredibly stupid is that Anakin should've recognized 2 things:

1. In both situations with Dooku's beheading and Mace's attempt to murder Palpatine, Anakin should've known that Palpatine was pretending to be a helpless victim so he could trick him into doing whatever he wants him to do.

AND

2. When both Palpatine and Mace say the same "he was too dangerous to be kept alive" comment, Anakin should've noticed the differences in the context of what they're saying. When Palpatine said it, he meant that he didn't want Dooku to expose him to the Jedi as Darth Sidious thereby leading them straight to him much sooner than how it transpired in the film. When Mace said it, he and Anakin both know that Palpatine planted organic microchips in each clone trooper's heads so that he could control them. Once he initiates order 66, the clones will gun down every Jedi throughout the galaxy and then he will be free to overthrow the Republic (which Anakin wrongly accused the Jedi of doing) by turning it into the Galactic Empire.

Of course, Anakin wouldn't care even if he did know since he's more concerned about saving Padme than what Emperor Sidious plans to do to the galaxy.

 

Qui-Gon: "Your focus determines your reality".
Anakin is thinking too internally. Fearing a future not set in stone yet, and looking too much at the surface of the situation, to be able to truly see what is right in front of him.
He is seeing what he wants to because the alternative - losing Padme, and the possible dire instability of the entire galaxy - is too scary to for him to face honestly.
Palpatine knows this, he understands Anakin and reads Anakin's reactions to the situation far better than Mace does.
Padme: "So love has blinded you?"
Padme didn't realise how true her joke here actually was.
It is reinforced that fear is of the darkside in the films, and Anakin sounds pretty afraid for the first half of Ep3. So he has been unofficially using the dark side since episode 2, and alone really, those close to him unable to really help yet Palpatine repeatedly seeming to offer comfort and later a supposed solution, when truthfully he hardly cares about Anakin at all.
Padme knows he is troubled but doesn't comprehend. She notices - "Don't push me away, let me help you..." but this seems lost on Anakin.
Obi-Wan can only fairly casually state his regret at giving Anakin the assignment to spy on Palpatine, and Yoda (and the Jedi Order) aren't telling him what he wants to hear. Even after Anakin turns and R2 is a little freaked C-3P0 can only suggest "Well he is under a lot of stress, Artoo"; an understatement typical to Threepio's character.
Anakin's ultimate choice is on him, but it makes sense that he would fall for it with what is shown in the narrative.

Having said all that, the gullibility aspect of the turn is indeed more prominent in the final cut. Originally pre-turn Anakin found his views more aligned with Palpatine's, and made less of a desperate last-minute choice to turn on Mace. The final cut makes him more sympathetic Imo, even if it's a little more far-fetched. What we got was arguably a more mythical "sold his soul" turn, the turn is effective almost immediately as Anakin chooses to act on his fear and burn most bridges to his past. I think Anakin's feelings of isolation and general anger at the Jedi Order originally came into the story more. When he turns in the final cut I wouldn't say he truly hates the Jedi, he just values his own needs over them, and the situation has been brought by Palpatine to a position where Anakin can more easily choose that.



I would disagree that Anakin should have known about Palpatine during Dooku's death scene though. Yes, to the audience Palpatine is already acting pretty suspiciously; cheerfully ordering Dooku's death and all. But other than that Anakin has no more reason than any other Jedi to suspect Palpatine yet. Afterall, the defeat of the Sith is something Anakin has been trained to do both by the Jedi Order and the Republic for years by then. He thinks Dooku is the legitimate leader of a legitimate enemy, Anakin not being privy to the fact the war is a sham.
Note after killing Dooku Anakin thinks he has to explain to Palpatine (while reminding himself) that they aren't supposed to kill unarmed prisoners no matter the circumstance. To Anakin at this stage this type of thing is above the Chancellor's field of expertise, it is kind of like a soldier trying to articulate his sense of duty to a clueless civilian.
It sounds convenient perhaps, but the dark side shroud does explain some of this even if not covered in detail in the films onscreen. In AOTC Palpatine can lie in front of Yoda, arguably the most powerful of the Jedi Order, and get no more than slight suspicion and curiosity from the Jedi Master.

Yeah, but it is kind of a double-meaning that Anakin has no reason to be aware of. The way Anakin hears it, it's an objective statement about their seemingly common enemy.
It's part of his conflict, he got to do what he deep down wanted to, despite knowing his teachings conflicted with it.
Your point rings totally true for Palpatine's motive. And also consider Dooku started out politically idealistic to an extent Anakin was never quite at. Perhaps Sidious thought there were aspects of his plan Dooku would disagree with and didn't want any cracks in his total stranglehold on the galaxy, and there is the possibility of Sidious being overthrown by Tyrannus, hence "too dangerous" to him.

I don't really buy into the TCW explanation personally, but I agree otherwise.
I think mace was being hasty and overconfident in the moment though. I mean, the Jedi's situation was pretty ****ed.
On the Jedi as traitors, they kind of were briefly, but only in writing. Palpatine was a much bigger traitor than them but went through the right channels and snuck in seemingly legally where the Jedi were desperately acting hastily towards a genuine greater good. It's grey on purpose, this argument is always going to be circular due to individual experiences.

Again, I wish they hadn't made it all about Padme exclusively.
Anakin thinks the galaxy will be better off under any kind of peace, no matter the cost. It's just thinly presented in the final film, but Lucas's own comments do back this up.

 

Rereading this I realised I was missing the point. You were referring to the comparison between Dooku's murder and Mace's attempt on Palpatine... so my response talking about what Anakin knew back when he killed Dooku was actually irrelevant.

I would think the comparison between the scenes still holds regardless. Anakin later, on joining Palpatine, in his mind has received only further (false) validation that morally questionable actions were okay for the greater good. To Anakin, even after the reveal, Palpatine approved of him killing Dooku because Dooku was an idealistic extremist. Something Anakin wanted to do and was unsure if he should regret. Palpatine on the other hand seemed to want to bring order. Sadly I think Anakin respected that Palpatine seemed a no-nonsense kind of leader, and was not entirely opposed to the idea of an Empire.
Plus the general comparison is being made about Dooku and Sidious, the potential seperate killings of two unarmed Sith Lords by a Jedi, and Dooku was a threat to the Jedi just like Sidious. How does Anakin know that Dooku didn't have something like Order 66 planned? Dooku had already indicated to the public the Separatists wanted control of the Galaxy.
When Mace appears to be rationalising essentially the same way as Palpatine did on Dooku, suddenly the politics don't entirely matter because both orders have an inherent similar flaw like Palpatine claimed, and Palpatine of course has more to offer.

On Anakin being possibly angry when he realised Palpatine got rid of Dooku with a sinister alterior motive (hiding his identity / replacing Dooku with Vader / getting rid of Dooku), remember Palpatine "comes clean" with his identity to Anakin intentionally. I don't think Anakin at the crucial moment would really care about this stuff when Palpatine has almost flat out stated he wants Anakin to join him before Anakin goes to report him to the Council. As you have said Padme is Anakin's weak point. When he leaves the Council chambers to intervene he doesn't truly care who Palpatine is anymore.

The Jedi as traitors in my eyes is a technicality, what they attempted was certainly against established Republic law. The Council did express that they would take over for the time being and re-organise the Senate however they saw fit. Their ultimate good intentions is the difference between them and the Sith.

 

This! I agree with everything you have said so far but I can't stress how much I agree with these paragraphs in particular. Besides, after the events of AOTC, I don't see any reason for why Mace should be "nice" to Anakin or trust him. Anakin went against his direct orders.

What they attempted was against established Republic law? I doubt a situation like the one they were facing was covered in Republic law to begin with. I don't see how arresting the man behind a war meant to cripple and destroy the Republic would be against Republic law.

And they didn't express any intent in reorganizing the senate to their whims. What Mace was suggesting, was that (after Palpatine was arrested) the Jedi Council would need to take control of the senate to maintain order and peace until the senate itself elects a new chancellor. Quite a difference.

 

From the script...

MACE WlNDU: Thank you, Commander. Anakin, deliver this report to the Chancellor. His reaction will give us a clue to his intentions.
ANAKIN: Yes, Master.
ANAKIN leaves the room. COMMANDER CODY's hologram disappears.
MACE WINDU: I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi. The dark side of the Force surrounds the Chancellor.
Kl-ADI-MUNDI: If he does not give up his emergency powers after the destruction of Grievous, then he should be removed from
office.
MACE WiNDU: That could be a dangerous move ... the Jedi Council would have to take control of the Senate in order to secure a peaceful transition . . .
Kl-ADI-MUNDI: . . . and replace the Congress with Senators who are not filled with greed and corruption.
YODA: To a dark place this line of thought will carry us. Hmmmmm. . . . great care we must take.

That line about replacing the Senators with "Senators not filled with greed and corruption" implies the Jedi would be deciding who counts as not "corrupt" to be appointed to the Senate. It is subtle, but it is there.

Plus on the subject of Anakin - there is a difference between the Jedi babying Anakin by being too nice, and at all letting him on information vital to their mission. Notice Mace dismisses Anakin and Cody before divulging his true concerns.
Imagine how much harder a time Palpatine would have convincing Anakin of the "extent" of the Jedi Order's intentions if Anakin had been privy to a conversation like this.
Granted, Anakin is given a legitimate task - the Chancellor's reaction to the news on Grievous speaks volumes (Palpatine ironically seeming to innocently wish Obi-Wan success). But Anakin isn't wise enough to see through this - that the Chancellor could care less who wins the fight, and even if Obi-Wan wins it ties up a loose end for Palpatine by getting rid of Grievous. Palpatine is more concerned about getting the Jedi and Anakin in his office. The war's end is inevitable, Palpatine has set it up so they are guaranteed to win.
But Anakin and the Jedi cannot see this.

 

It's not there. It's not part of the film. It was cut, abandoned, removed. It never got past the script stage for a reason.

Which information did he mention that was vital to Anakin's mission? I don't recall any.

I don't think it would change anything. What Mace said to his fellow Jedi doesn't change anything regarding Anakin's trust in them. At the end of the day, they don't owe him that information (more like a suggestion than anything else), it's not relevant for him and he would always speculate about thing that they don't share with him anyway.

Yes, but unlike the Council, Anakin chose to not see many things.

 

Agree to disagree on that. I count the final available script as canon.
And you say "never got past the script for a reason" but truth be told this reason is simply because Lucas made the final cut of the film less political and Anakin's fall more motivated by his fear for Padme's life. If the original cut of Anakin's fall had made it to cinemas I can almost assure you that lines like this would be in there.

I meant the Jedi Order's general mission but it does apply to Anakin's personal objective as well.
The Jedi never overtly state they suspect a "plot to destroy the Jedi", involving Palpatine in any way, to Anakin. Inversely, Palpatine falsely does just that about them.
In the DVD disc 2 deleted-scene older version of this scene (if you count it), Obi-Wan, Mace and Yoda are only present. Obi-Wan states there is "...a massive shift in the force, we have all felt it" (I wish that line made it into the film) and Mace again states "The darkside of the force surrounds the Chancellor" although seems more determined to arrest him (before knowing he is a Sith) in this version. Anakin would appear to have some justification for feeling kept out of the loop in this instance. I mean Anakin was on the Jedi Council afterall, arguably they gave him a token seat on the Council, but never really fully inducted him.
The Jedi's (more noble than it seemed) intention to take control of the Senate if to came to that, and especially Yoda's dire concerns regarding this line of thought are exactly what Anakin needed to hear. Palpatine appears to be the only one acknowledging this in front of Anakin at all.
You may argue Anakin's time to be let in on the Jedi's deeper wisdom would come eventually if he was patient, but they were desperately running out of time and they needed Anakin more than they let him see.

But you would think a Jedi so central to their future would need to be allowed a little more clarity regarding what they really think.

Yes. Anakin is virtually blind at the crucial moment, he sees what he want to. But that doesn't diminish the part other characters in the tragedy contribute.

 

I do too, as long as it doesn't contradict the final intended version as presented on screen. That version didn't feature that dialogue. It was cut for a reason. I genuinely can't understand why you're ignoring the final version over a previous one.

Or he cut it because he ended up realizing that a Jedi wouldn't say something like that.

How? Anakin was assigned to spy on Palpatine. The Jedi were discussing what would have to be done if Palpatine doesn't keep his word of giving up his powers once the war ends. Anakin doesn't need to discuss or even think about that in order to do his job. In a sense, it could be considered to be an hindrance.

Why would he have some justification there? The premiss is the same in both scenes.

But Anakin is not aware of any "line of thought" they Jedi might or might not have. So why would he think that the Jedi want to take over the senate or get power?

They needed Anakin to do his job. A job that he should be interested in more than anyone else since he was friends with Palpatine. Anakin had the chance to discover if Palpatine, his friend, was in danger or under the influence of someone else.

Think about what? Anakin doesn't need more concerns than those he already has. And if he was successful in his mission, the Jedi would inevitably tell him what should or shouldn't be done.

Assuming there is a contribution from those characters.