ST The Development Of The Sequel Trilogy

Updated the title.

 

So “Skyler” (Finn) almost was related to the big three. They could make Finn Luke's son

 

I think that Skyler was a Solo and may have fallen to the dark side during the course of the ST, seduced by the Jedi Killer - George was considering Darth Talon for that role iirc. Uber / Snoke was also present as well under George.

 

How would you guys have felt about Darth Talon as the main villain of this trilogy? It certainly would’ve been different.

 

I think it would have been awful personally. It's all of George's lame fetishes at once

 

It seems Skyler fell to the darkside in Lucas version of VII.

 

Yeah. Basically, they switched Skylar's fall to Ben Solo's backstory and replaced Luke's fight with the Jedi Killer with Luke's moment of shame and consequence. But the basics are there from very early on. TFA got split into two films in one sense. The one we got, and the Luke/ Kira arc that got held back until TLJ.

 

From what I read of some of the criticisms of the ST, part of the problem is that we don't really know where the ST is going. Part of the problem is that they need to get out of the Skywalker Saga aspect (I would not be at all shocked if Episode IX is the last numbered episode).

The OT eventually developed into a more-or-less cohesive trilogy, and the PT was pre-determined for certain things to happen.

Luke was going to redeem Vader, the Rebels were going to beat the Empire. The PT had the fall of the Republic, the rise of Palpatine and Vader.

The ST has the Republic falling apart, the Jedi school non-existent, and the Heroes of the Rebellion scraping by.

I think Abrams might have some trouble giving a coherent theme to this trilogy.

 

I think we just need a good episode 9 to tie everthing together. Hopefully JJ can pull it off

 

I don't know if ROTJ is all that obvious, given the way ESB left things. And that's reflected in the ROTJ story meetings.

 

It reminded me of AotC when GL wanted Ventress instead of Dooku but then he finally used her for TCW. I think it would have been great to have a Twi'lek as one of the main characters in movies since most of the time they're seen as slaves. I remember Oola was originally supposed to escape from Jabba's palace. How awesome would that be if they had more budget back then.

 

No, for sure, I wasn't clear - meant that everyone has seen the OT a trillion times and so everything seems familiar and tied together.

If you look at the progression of ANH - ESB - ROTJ, there's definite changes and I'd bet if the internet were around back then beyond Al Gore's playroom, there'd be lots of grumbling about certain developments.

 

TBH, I think if you tried to accurately get a feel for what would happen in ROTJ and ROTS after their preceding films, you would struggle. And I don’t think we can really judge until we’ve seen it. Carrie passing obviously removes probably the greatest hooks, but I think it’ll feel cohesive once we see where it all goes. It’ll feel more compact than the previous trilogies I guess (unless they split 9 into two episodes) but then I guess the PT practically skipped the entire clone wars which we once thought would be the backdrop for the whole trilogy.

 

I have a suspicion that the name "Kylo" was derived from "Skyler".

 

Quite possible.


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Exactly. Will this end the "Episodes"? It should. We need to move beyond the Skywalkers.

Who knows, maybe they should have had more of the OT characters and had say 2 full movies with them being the focus, and use characters like Rey, Finn and Ren sparingly until Episode IX when they start to take over, and the progression beyond the Skywalker Saga would be more cut and dry.

 

I get the sense that this trilogy is about getting rid of old institutions in order to make way for new ones. The idea essentially being that trying to revive the Republic, the Jedi Order and Empire essentially catalyzed a cyclical downfall.

- The New Republic was instated, but fell into apathy once more and was destroyed by the First Order.
- Luke set out to revive the Jedi Order, but was betrayed by Ben Solo saw his budding legacy destroyed.
- The First Order was the Empire resurgent, but with Snoke dead, perhaps it evolves into something different under Kylo Ren, or is destined to collapse.

I imagine the resolution to this trilogy might involve the founding of a new form of government as well as a new school of Force study, symbolizing a completely fresh start for the galaxy.

 

There are two important changes I believe took place once George was gone.

First of all I don't think Lucas had the intention to have a non Skywalker related protagonist like we have with Rey. He might have ended the Skywalker saga with IX, but leaving things more open for future trilogies.

Secondly, I would say the original plan was to have the story panned out since the early stages, contrary to the narrative now in place of giving more creative freedom to the directors. Probably the idea was having Arndt writting all the three episodes and probably having Abrams directing the trilogy.

Which might have been cool as well.

 

I think that changing old institutions for the better is part of it, but personally, from what we've seen so far, I'd say that the interview Kasdan gave ( with Vanity Fair, I think? Maybe it was EW? ) where he suggested that the inability to learn or gain wisdom from the past, and those who came before, was a theme in TFA, and I think that TLJ explores this further, by stressing the importance of learning from failure. So, I guess I see the characters and institutions in TFA as blindly repeating past mistakes, doggedly pursuing paths that have failed in the past, determined that they not fail this time, or rejecting these paths outright in Luke's case ( though we don't learn this until TLJ, of course ), and in TLJ, learning to embrace failure, or rather that it's OK to fail and learn from that failure. Learning to learn from past mistakes, in a nutshell.

So yeah, I suppose, if IX was to build on this theme still further, we might see the old institutions reformed, taking into account their past failures in order to become better equipped for the future.

 

IMO if TFA only hinted at the possible theme of this trilogy, TLJ made it clear: it's a legacy story, the weight of the past and how a new generation is "trapped" in the shadows of those who preceded them. And how these old living legends have become desillusioned. I think of it as a post-baby boomer/60s story, the end of the hippie dream. What's left for our generation when every has already been said and done? (In the movie Luke has partially find an answer: not being tied by the past but not being oblivious to it neither...a balance )

I don't know how JJ will end the ST but i agree that there should be a progression from ROTJ : maybe there will be more than one jedi? the rebuild of a more solid and successful Republic? The end of the turn-good-turn-bad skywalker-turn-good-again-after-galactic-mass-murder lineage?

 

On the discussion of themes, ANH and ESB together really don't provide a cohesive theme, neither do TPM and AOTC. So far it has been the 3rd episode in each trilogy that has provided theme as well the mythical layer.

 

I think thematically, TFA and TLJ dig into very similar territory regarding the past and the dangers of letting it define us. Agree though that it's crazy to try and judge the whole story when it's only with ACT 3 that the full picture comes to light. There's no way you can judge the PT or the OT based on the first two films in each.

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-rey-parents-rian-johnson?mbid=social_twitter

No. If I have to believe this interview, Rey could have been related or not.
It was 100% RJ's choice to make her a no-one.

Now, given that Rey's parentage is instrumental in whatever endgame we can possibly
imagine and that we are going to get, that means that whatever GL's idea was...
the ST has a developtment which is not dictated or even foreshadowed by it.

In short whoever Kyra or Skyler were in GL's view, they became what JJ and RJ wanted.
And their choices are what matters.

Therefore I think it's... "pointless" to use what we're learning about GL's vision/ideas
to foresee how the ST may end.
But sure it's interesting to debate and see how things evolved.

 

If there is a ReyLo thing to happen then it won't matter if she's a nobody, as she'll be technically a Skywalker at that point and part of that whole line's continuation. In a piece of fan faction ( http://boards.theforce.net/threads/episode-ix-story-discussion.50047265/page-19#post-54819376 ) I have a scenario where they work together and develop more feelings for one another before Kylo perishes after during a time of serving the interests of the light (even though he perishes to the darkside in the end). At the end Rey discovers she is pregnant and thus carrying Skywalker twins chosen to lead a new generation of force sensitives.