Lit From Endor to Exegol - The State of the Galaxy Discussion Thread (Tagged Victory's Price Spoilers)

That's not how they're gonna wrap up the Skywalker Saga (I - IX), I guarantee you. This is still Star Wars at the end of the day. Films built around hope. At times that hope still's distant and nothing but a fool's hope, but the Force and the Galaxy always find the will to preserve and move forward. Hope, like the Starbird of the Alliance, is continually reborn.

--Adm. Nick

 

I'm sorry, is Luke Skywalker, hero of a generation chugging milk straight from the giant, swollen teat playing it safe now?

 

Given how it ends up, yes it played it VERY safe.

 

It's possible the plan was to have the Centrist-leaning interests we see in Bloodline form a bureaucracy, but then again Snoke did something Palpatine didn't - by destroying the entire Hosnian system, he completely annihilated the NR's central government, likely including the Centrist senators as well as every bureaucratic office attending to little matters like taxes and trade. The First Order will have to rebuild a galactic government from scratch and they're doing it via a forceful takeover, not by controlling the existing government for over a decade. Counting the dissolution of the Imperial Senate in ANH as the endpoint, Palpatine spent 32 years transitioning the Old Republic into the Empire..

As an aside, back in the day when I was developing a fanfic arc based around a Storm Commando officer who goes independent after Endor, the realization that administering a galaxy-wide authoritarian state was a fool's errand was a big part of the character's development. As a soldier trained in counterinsurgency tactics, he realized that if you make the galactic populace mad enough they'll take an empire down by sheer weight of numbers. I have the feeling the First Order is going to learn that lesson the hard way.

 

That's why I think that the New Republic conceptually worked very well, save being too complacent against rising threats and probably de-militarizing to a degree that was overly severe. Galactic government is best when it focuses on a few top priorities. If I were elected chancellor of the New Republic, I'd focus on just a few core areas:

• Common defense
• Promote trade & common standards
• Foreign policy with other powers
• Maintenance of galactic infrastructure
• Ensure civil liberties
• Mediate disputes between member worlds

Basically, provide a navy, protect members, ensure the free & fair flow of trade, protect member rights, and stuff like that. Let the members take care of their own affairs locally. All you see are some established laws about rights, trade, and a fair judicial system to mediate with. The New Republic in canon did all of those things very well, save common defense. I'm all for de-centralizing military powers to a large degree, but you still need a federal navy to protect borders, deter larger threats, and respond to emergencies.

I think that the Old Republic ultimately tried to do too much, which led to members feeling ignored, over controlled, or distrustful.

--Adm. Nick

 

Thanks. Its like Star Trek Generations all over again. Look how edgy we are killing Kirk. But once you see this was done to provide a safe journey for the TNG crew, the illusion is gone. Does anyone call Star Trek Generations edgy? That goes to Wrath of Khan, which literally had a final scene leading to Spocks resurrection. Kirk never came back.

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Hear, hear!!

 

Oh, so that's Rey's real name. Nice

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My understanding from Bloodline was that most of the Centrist senators and worlds seceded from the New Republic and formed the public face of the First Order, that is, the FO that is not seen as a threat by the rest of the New Republic before and during TFA. This would presumably be a separate government, similar to the Separatist senate seen briefly in TCW, so they may still be around. I think this is especially likely if those early spoilers from MakingStarWars were true, about Snoke "seducing" the senate with promises of power; this seems to be part of the backstory that was partially introduced in Bloodline, with great influence from Johnson apparently, but which was strangely absent in TLJ (except in very rudimentary form in Canto Bight.)

Meanwhile, the true force of the First Order, and the only aspect of it that we have seen in the films so far, was in the Unknown Regions. From Phasma and TLJ it seems like this fleet is the "true power" for the First Order in its current form, a mobile dictatorship that exists primarily as a fleet, but with bases and governed worlds scattered throughout the Unknown Regions. These are the fanatics we have seen all this time, but I am very interested in and hopeful that we will get to see the more "public" face of the First Order that used to be part of the New Republic; the old planetary royalty and Core-favoring worlds that we first meet in Bloodline.

(Maybe it's a silly dream, but I picture Supreme Leader Ren trying to deal with the ruling elite of the galaxy who are nominally part of the First Order but ultimately still worlds that needs a more solid institutional structure to coexist without chaos. The contrast between the utilitarian FO fleet, along with their dream of militant order, and the real people who have funded their expansion and are looking to cash in for the promises of power, could lend itself to both humor and tragedy. Tragedy because Ren realizes that his dream government is just that, and that what they are creating is more of the same ("... a whole bunch of new cruel people..."). Especially if Ren brings in his knights to get a better handle of the new government. It almost reminds me of some of the unexplored aspects of Dark Empire with Palpatine's dark side elite and his dreams of forming a government much more subservient to a ruling caste of Force users.)

 

Yeah, it's definitely possible that the Centrists provide the FO with the bureaucratic and political tools it needs to govern. I really wish we knew exactly what happened with the Centrists, as it is kinda vague and contradictory. It's clear some joined the First Order, but how many? There were many Centrists that wanted a stronger New Republic, did they secede too? Or stick with the NR? Or, just as likely, split off and form a new government separate from the FO or NR?

--Adm. Nick

 

I really wanna know if Coruscant joined the FO

 

Why did you have to give me that mental image of Mon Mothma laughing hysterically?

 

RE: Coruscant, I'd say it's a toss up. One senator was clearly an Imperial-nostalgic, but the other was more of a defense hawk who was a big supporter of the New Republic Defense Force. Coruscant in general in the post-Jakku period is such a fertile ground for stories. It is the former galactic capital, one that just emerged from a civil war. It would ultimately depend whether the Imperial leaning nobility or the underclasses who were stronger supporters of the New Republic.

If I had to guess, I'd see Coruscant going independent. The idea of Coruscant leading a small cluster of worlds in a Core centric mini-state is one that has a lot of interesting story potential.

--Adm. Nick

 

That could work. Honestly what I really wanna see is the alien and lower level population of Coruscant begin to take control. Like after all these human-centric regimes showing up and the elite supporting them only for it all to backfire, the normal people of Coruscant take control. I mean that's sorta what happened during the Galactic Civil War, but this could be them having a chance to finally make a Coruscant worthy of being the capital of the Republic beyond just being the home of the rich snobs.

Also I have my Mon mothma memes locked and loaded for Jay's wrath

 

The reason the aliens won't take control is they keep fighting each other. Wookiees vs Trandoshans, Duros vs Neimoidians, Mon cals vs quarren, etc. It is not some large group known as aliens, but many different species who don't identify with each other. And since hunans are the largest group, that is why they keep dominating.

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I am not talking about every single race though. plus plenty of humans live on Coruscant and are not part of the elite. sure aliens fight over systems and homeworlds they share, but I am specifically talking about the citizens of Coruscant. This is a thing that is not talked about as often as it should be, but there has to be a massive amount of aliens who have never been to their species' homeworld. Like a lot of twileks likely where not born on Ryloth. Maybe not most, but still a sizable amount are not part of Ryloth's politics and on some level their culture. So yeah sure there are races that are fighting each other, but a lot of the beings on Coruscant make up their own communities solely on that world.

It's just like how in major American cities you can find a massive amount of people from different cultures who are more invested in their similar political and cultural situation as New Yorkers than they are by say the political situation in Poland. And yes there is still an effect from where people are from, like Americans who have Middle Easter heritage being effected by the political climate between American and the Middle East. However they are still effected more by how that situation effects these shores in particular. It is still through the lens of being part of this community.

The same goes for a massive world like Coruscant. The many races that make up just one level of the world are more a part of their unique hodge podge than they are of say Ryloth. They are a part of that community through the unique view of a Twilek, but specifically a Twilek on Coruscant from whatever social class they are in.

Or long story short, races sometimes fighting each other does not at all diminish the possibility of people on Coruscant getting annoyed with the political elite.

 

Well, Coruscant elitism being a human/racial thing seems to be where my pessimism is rooted. No offense to anyone intended, but to use an Earth analogy, Mexicans, Asians, Middle Easterners, and African Americans banding together in peaceful solidarity against certain elitist elements in America would be great. However, this happens rarely it seems. Even the Civil Rights march is associated in the historical memory as being associated with 1 group, the African Americans.

Today, when middle easterners, or african Americans, or Mexicans are targeted by bad people for humiliation or unfair laws, I'm not seeing that multiethnic defense we are all hoping for. Its usually the targeted group on their own for defense, with a few allies. If people on Earth can't band together in a "you attack one of us, you attack all of us" way, how can the aliens on Coruscant?

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Very fair point. I guess yeah that kind of thing would not exactly manage to work without falling in on itself, like most revolutions really. Though this makes me really badly want a story all about the racial tensions on Coruscant.

 

Well the big difference that Canto Bright shows is the First Order's supporters and war mongers are a multispecies and monstrously evil bunch.

PERFECT FOR CORUSCANTI!

 

That gets me thinking -- is there any kind of rough sentient species "demographic breakdown" for the GFFA? Even in Legends?

Visually I'd have to estimate it to be around 75% human, 25% "other". Prior to the ST, given canonical depictions in the films and animated shows (abetted, admittedly, by reused background models for budget reasons) it looked like there were a few species that could make up some pretty solid chunks of that "other", and you could say perhaps 2% or 3% for Rodians, Twi'Leks, Bith, Ithorians, to name a few who are most commonly seen in general crowds all across the galaxy. The ST is making it look a little more like the "other" has no particularly dominant species, but hey.

That's just me spitballing those statistics, of course. I'd be curious if anyone agrees or has a radically different impression...

 

Some people say Humans are just one species, and there'd be other races of near equal numbers. Clearly not the case if we look at what we see on screen. I'd be inclined to say 50% Humans 50% non-Humans.

 

Violence has nothing to do with it. I like Coruscant, I really do. My point is that it has a tendency to be humancentric and core-centric. This is why making the Republic capital rotate was such a good idea, smaller systems that feel under-represented had the chance to be more in the spotlight. I genuinely love Coruscant, it is without a doubt my favorite SW world, but it's for that very reason that I would like to see it's dark side- its potential for bigotry and elitism - to be combated. It's why I don't want it to join the FO, if it does that then it means that the world is controlled by those who have learned nothing from their past actions.

Heck we even saw this at the end of the Civil War. The "normal people" of Coruscant are those who had been hurt by the Empire's bigotry and chose to stop it. Coruscant yes has been the capital for thousands of years, and I agree that it earned it, but what made it great has been corrupted. Much like the Old Republic itself, Coruscant has become twisted after centuries of absolute power. Just cause it was once deserving of being the capital, does not mean it automatically should be handed that role.

At the end of the day I WANT Coruscant to be the capital by ep 9's ending at least. It would be powerful, but if Coruscant chooses to side with the FO it would be just reliving it's same sins. I LOVE the idea of Coruscant coming together and fighting the FO cause then it would show that it still can be a bastion of what's good about the Republic. However it has to avoid supporting anymore tyrannical dictatorships in order to prove that. I know how hard it can be to do that, but still

Also