A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

That's kind of how I always understood it.

 

I don't understand how "had the character on merchandise" means "deliberately built her up in marketing".

 

I think it's just the idea that "prominently featured in merchandise and advertising" makes you think the character will be prominently featured in the movie. Thing is, among the bad guys, she is. It's just not that much anyway.

I, for one, hope she's not dead.

 

Yes, absolutely. Phasma is exactly like Fett in the OT - both characters who have massive cult followings based entirely on their armor being advertised, but being chumps in the actual movies.

Leia, Luke, and Phasma are the only characters to have entire entries in the "Journey to TLJ" marketing brand devoted entirely to them (and Phasma and Leia are the only ones to have two such works). And I would guarantee that Phasma has the lowest trailer-to-movie presence of any characters actually featured in the trailers (which is essentially every character except Rose, Holdo, and DJ, all of whom I would argue were more important to, not to mention having more screentime than, Phasma in TLJ).

 

Not to be overly rude, but I am shocked we're still having the "was Phasma overhyped/underused" discussion. It seems to me that the movies never really give side-villains major stories, and it has always been up to the EU to fill in those gaps. Take Tarkin, Boba Fett, any admiral, etc. for example. Even the Prequels only used Jango as far as the clone army was concerned. I'm not sure why we've shifted on how much a movie needs to use someone to be a "correctly used", in any sense. This trilogy is Rey's story; Phasma factors into her story 0%. She's part of Finn's story, and his B-plot can't only feature her, it has to share with Rose and Canto Bight.

In any sense, Phasma the novel and comic series were excellent, and I felt like we've had a perfect amount of time with her for being a side character in a trilogy anyway.

I like this a lot. It would fit with the novelization's version of Snoke and Ben's conversation about Vader making a mistake in turning to the light. I'm not even sure the canon has ever tried to show Vader as obsessed with hunting Jedi as Legends!Vader was, so I like these motivations far more. Kylo believes he wanted galactic domination (something he alludes to in Cloud City, anyway) rather than he wanted the extermination of the Jedi, something he mentions almost never (outside of the new comics).

 

I Hate Everything made a response to his previous TFA Review:



Language Warning!

 

Boba had a good showing in ESB, established him as better at what he does than all those other hunters. That and cool armor got him a following, he wasn't really that hyped up until they knew they had a popular character. If ROTJs chump showing had been his first appearance, nobody but the people who know every character in the cantina would remember his name.

Phasma on the other hand was hyped up hard in prerelease marketing, and her showing in TFA was a joke. Then TLJ doubles down on both aspects. She's Fett if Lucasfilm had been trying really hard to make Fett a thing and ESB didn't exist.

I don't see how anyone can deny that Disney put a ton of marketing push behind her in an attempt to artificially create 'the Fett of the ST' with a straight face. Instead they ended up with books, comics, and marketing $ spent on a character barely anybody cares about because of chump appearances and any 'coolness' feeling so forced and committee designed that it's never going to inspire much of a following.

Essentially:


Should've stayed in the trash compactor.

 

Really? Boba Fett is like the ur-example of a character becoming mega-hyped entirely due to a toy before he appeared on the big screen.

 

yeah I imagine that's why he appeared in the Holiday Special where he had more lines than in two films

that cartoon was pretty awesome

still, I don't necessarily think making an aesthetically appealing character like Boba Fett or Phasma necessarily dictates that they get major arcs in the films. They're essentially Piett but Piett toys don't sell, I don't begrudge them for trying to sell the toys they know kids will want.

 

The character has merit in ESB though, c'mon. He outfoxes Han and lets the third act happen.

 

plus Jason Wingreen has an awesome voi- oh wait

 

I never understood why people liked Boba Fett.

As for Phasma... yeah it's a waste, they'd have to be masterful to make Phasma finally work in IX now, and I don't see that happening. Let her rest, TLJ was the make or break moment, and she broke.

 

I'm going with Phasma is a character that was always destined to have her details fleshed out in ancillary materiel to give her depth. Which happens with a whole lotttttt of secondary baddies in Star Wars (ie. a lot). And I really liked the Phasma comic and her appearances in Poe Dameron and Before the Awakening. Haven't read the Phasma novel yet but is definitely 100% on the to-do list.

As for her in the films, it's a pretty decent gag in TFA that she' built up and is disposed of in an inglorious way. And I actually quite like her in Last Jedi because she shows up at the absolute worst time Finn can see her again and I think their battle is really awesome (she's freakin' letting blaster bolts bounce off her no bother) and we get to see her do some cool stuff and snarl at him angrily (not much snarling she does in TFA but she gets to go even nastier here with "Blasters are too good for them, let's make this hurt"). And then Finn smacks her down and I quite hope she's dead because her fate was always to die by Finn. So if the Phasma/Finn stuff is out of the way, he can do some other stuff in Episode IX. By disposing of his boss one on one he's put behind his Trooper life, heck it ends with him proclaiming proudly that he's Rebel scum. That's an arc, climaxed with Finn beating the hell out of his former boss. Action movie arc catharsis achieved.

One could argue that Finn completed that arc by disposing of her in the trash compactor, which is right and a funny way to end it, but getting them in a decent brawl was more satisfying. Also it calls back to the Finn vs. "TR-8R" brawl from TFA cuz he's again in a physical one on one versus a stormtrooper and Finn gets to be handy with the riot baton that he got smacked around with to take out his final boss.

Although I could see Abrams bringing her back cuz by the 3rd time it'd be kind of like making her Wile E. Coyote if she's still alive. But I kinda hope she stays dead cuz I thought her final brawl with Finn was properly epic. They even fought in a long wide tracking shot outta Mortal Kombat, I absolutely loved that.

 

Honestly, Boba Fett is so close to being nothing more than a glorified extra in the OT that I really think it's unfair to Phasma to compare them. A better analogy, IMO, is General Grievous.

 

what is going on here i'm going to assume that is meant with heavy irony because

He stands toe-to-toe with Vader, thwarts Han Solo, achieves what the Imperial Navy could not, and helps box Luke into Vader's trap. Oh, and actually notices a Jedi sneaking around, which is a great escalation from Obi-Wan evading every single Death Star staff member either. Oh, and he GETS AWAY WITH IT IN THE END. He's, like, the only guy who wins in ESB.

I feel like there's this funny contrarian fan movement dead-set on convincing themselves that the character and the adoration for him is ludicrous when he's the most ruthless, sensible, and effective villain in the whole OT. Except the bit where he got knocked into the pit by the blind man in the silly film that resolves itself with a Wookiee doing a Tarzan yell.

Phasma exists because Kathleen Kennedy liked a rejected Kylo Ren design and insisted it be in the movie. Plain and simple. Abrams didn't have much for her to do, Johnson gives her:

• A cool line of dialogue
• A visually spectacular fight
• A tie into the thematic heft of the film at that point, when its at the apex of its "Let the past die" crusade

But that's done. Finn is 100% a Rebel now. Objective complete. Have a new villain pls

 

It could be kind of fun if Phasma did survive but she's completely out of the First Order at that point (if she does come back I would hope something would be different about her aside from "Yeah, sick burns under this helmet by the way") but I agree that her and Finn's story reached a pretty definitive and satisfying ending in Last Jedi.

Also did you see that fall into the billowing flame? It was, like, 2 stories at least! It really looked and felt like "she dead" to me. You even see her body fall! Into fire!

 

Make her armor an item you can acquire in a video game.

 

Maybe through loot boxes........

Oh

 

But Vader essentially succeeded in "ruling the galaxy" so why would it be something he "started' that needed to be "finished"? Maybe because he was still serving Palpatine he wasn't officially in charge?

Exactly. Boba Fett and Phasma may both similarly have little screen time compared to their merchandising, but there's a big difference in their actually effectiveness and success as characters in the story

 

Well yeah. To both Padme and Luke he makes it clear that his ultimate goal is overthrowing Palpatine and becoming the supreme ruler.

 

my worldview didn't collapse

 

That tracks.

 

do we know what Matt thought about TFA?

 

If you're talking about Matt the Radar technician then I'm still holding out hope he returns for Natalie Portman's SNL this weekend somehow.

Anyway, random question about Star Wars galaxy language and numbers in Last Jedi - there's totally english (or is it arabic, whatever) numbers in that movie, aren't they, like there's distinctly a number 3 in there at one point I think above Leia's med pod, isn't it supposed to be star wars language numbers or something