ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in Episode IX

NONSENSE. Obviously we now know everything we need to know about Rey. Now, back to Kylo...

 

“But that wasn’t the motivating factor behind that decision.”

Thanks for clearing that one up, RJ.

 

That's still missing the point. The Skywalker characters have been the most Force-special characters. This is why some people can't fathom how Rey very well might not be one. How could she be as powerful as a Skywalker and such a figure of destiny if she's not a Skywalker, is the thinking. That thinking assumes something about the Force and lineage which IMO is false. And it creates this Force elitism. I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to understand that since you are thinking this way yourself, which is why you can't see Rey as not a Skywalker.

Also the ST is full of Skywalker characters and Rey not being a Skywalker doesn't make it not the Skywalker saga.

It's really like some people cannot think outside this Skywalker-only box.

It's ridiculous if every character that plays the most important role in the Force is always a Skywalker. Also consider that if Leia only had one child and Luke had no children, and Leia's child goes to the dark side at this important point in time when the Force is renewing after being stagnant so long that this means the Force will manifest powerfully in the light side to counter the dark. That's what it does. That's why Anakin was conceived in the first place (in response to a great darkness).

Rey's role also is probably to restart the Jedi but in a new way. It's important she doesn't have these trappings of the past that the Skywalker characters have in order to do that. And also if you think about the Skywalker lineage it is one of destruction. Anakin succeeded in destroying the Sith. Kylo destroyed Snoke (another super powerful Force parasite). The prophesy of the Chosen One centers in destroying great evil.

Rey's role may be about building something - renewing the Jedi - not destroying anything.

 

Have people forgotten this article?
https://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/rey-the-last-jedi?utm_term=.tqaOXAbpNX#.ajOvWplRwW

 

Wait did Rian admit that Rey is the last jedi?

I know thats what they are implying but did anyone actually said that she is the last Jedi ?

 

RJ appears to have changed his tune.

Which is not surprising. The Sequel Trilogy is still, to my knowledge, a part of the Skywalker Family Saga. Just as much as the PT and OT are, actually. (I believe the three trilogies have been referred to as “one big story,” in fact.) Meaning that the ST is still about the Skywalker Family. Otherwise the ST would be a “sequel to the Skywalker Family Saga” rather than a part of it. RJ’s new trilogy will be Skywalker-less, never fear

RJ also liked to act as if he had total creative freedom, and I think he described the process as a “baton pass.”

Apparently he’s finally decided to sing the same tune KK, JJ, and PH have been singing about the ST development process. Which imo lends him a touch more credibility...

ETA: Re an earlier post - the “Force elitism” you refer to is among fans. Not in-universe. So it doesn’t work.

And again - you’re complaining about the Skywalkers being the most important characters in the Skywalker Family Saga. That’s akin to complaining that a particular superhero is the most important character in a movie that bears that character’s name. Yes - the main character of a story will be the central character of that story. Because it’s by definition his/her story.

And anyway, RJ straight-out said that some “rejection of Force-elitism” was NOT the motivating factor behind his decision. He’s stated repeatedly that he decided on it because “it was the worst possible thing Rey could hear” atm. (Note the focus on the answer Rey gets, not the underlying truth of the matter.)

Also...was there ever any indication that Rey thought or hoped her parents would be important? No. She never acted like she was born to greater things than scavenging. It may well be that Rey’s sorrow is not over the belief that her parents weren’t important, but that they weren’t who she had hoped or suspected they were.

 

^^My only issue is that it seems RJ wanted to push the ST "beyond" the Skywalkers, but he's also getting his own separate trilogy to do that. So should it have been done so forcefully in TLJ? Now there's only one Skywalker left, and it's Kylo Ren, and I wasn't aware that he was the main character of the ST.

 

I expected two possibilities for Rey before TLJ:

• she is super strong with the force and she must be a Skywalker. Because they are the most-special ones.
  
• she is a 'regular' Jedi and she is random. And she would have to gain her place in the story through intense training/courage/perseverance/hard work. Like an underdog

After TLJ, she is clearly a super-strong random, a kind of third way that I did not anticipate and I admit that it takes a bit of out-of-the box thinking... I'm okay with that because it necessarily implies something new story-wise.

That being said it's difficult to anticipate what kind of satisfying story can come out of it. Super-strong skywalker scenario would have provided family drama. Regular random would have provided the underdog drama. Those were familiar landscapes : with Rey random we are going into uncharted territories and obviously we have no guarantee that it will be satisfying.

Are we seeing the transmission of the chosen one torch from one family (starting from Anakin) to another (starting with Rey) ? Or will she become the seed of a greater secularity of force wielders ? Or maybe she may renounce to make something out of her status ? It's difficult to say at this stage...

 

“I went through all the possibilities of who her parents could be. I made a list, with the upsides and downsides,” he said. “There were two things about this option that made it feel right to me. Firstly, I like the idea that we’re breaking out from the notion that the force is this genetic thing that you have to be tied to somebody to have. It’s the ‘anybody can be president’ idea.”

Rian didn't change his tune, Rian was always saying that there were a few factors behind his decision.

Are you saying that Rian is always straight-out lying when he speaks about "a list with the upsides and downsides"? If he knows that Rey is Skywalker in IX? Because if she is, there is no need to create a list. It would be always "fake" Rey Random.

 

Yes.

The "anybody can be a hero" doesnt work for Rey at all.

She is another chosen one. Literally.

Nobody hero works for Finn , Rose not Rey.

She is overpowered without training , why well bcoz Kylo is. What kind of reasoning is that ?

So she doesnt have to do anything, the force is literally doing everthing for her.

She already defeated Kylo. Nothing to worry about Rey now.

Her "force downloading from Kylo" moment in TFA was a facepalm moment for me .

Like the force is doing Rey's work for her.

I know she will save herself and everyone in the end like always.

There is no suspense there at all.
And its not interesting to watch.

Does anyone at this point think Rey will lose or be defeated by Kylo ?

 

Read the quote I posted. Nope - he said that idea was not the motivating factor.

And nope! Don’t think RJ was lying about that at all. He’s said many times that he chose the answer that would be hardest for Rey to hear. That was the list he was referring to. But again - this is what Rey is told. Not who her parents *are.* He has *never* said that Rey’s parents actually are rando junk dealers. Semantic wiggle-room

Kylo said that. That’s what Kylo percieved, and Rey believed him. (RJ stated it just that way: “Rey believed him.”) Kylo wasn’t lying. But he wasn’t lying about seeing Luke as a demoni-looking figure bringing his saber down to kill Kylo, and yet that was obviously objectively false. So Kylo’s perceptions are clearly warped. Why he has so much credibility with some, I’ll never understand.

 

Nope, read the quote I posted:

“I went through all the possibilities of who her parents could be. I made a list, with the upsides and downsides,” he said.

He straight-out says here "who her parents could be." Not about what Rey is told.

He made this decision for a few reasons. And it seems that the main was "hardest thing to hear." Not only one reason. ("There were two things about this option that made it feel right to me.") And "hardest thing to hear" is a dramatic rule for SW so that's why it was important.

Rian even made Rey say it herself firstly "They were nobodies" ("Big secret" in TFA) and then darksider Kylo confirms it.

1. Maz is telling "You already know the truth."
2. Cave shows it. (And visual inspiration from Under the Skin and other versions of this scene are very telling for Rey Random)
3. Rey says it.
4. Kylo confirms it.

It isn't about Kylo's "credibility," it's about Rey's.

 

Yes. For the purposes of the “reveal.”

Also, RJ that he said he was given the freedom to come up with the answer himself. But in the latest interview, he says that “we” thought a lot about every important issue. He made a rather big deal about the creation of TLJ (and the ST as a whole) as highly “collaborative” process. Yet he was free to choose any parentage answer for TLJ he wanted. Doesn’t sound like what he was allowed to decide for himself was *who Rey’s parents end up being.* Whether or not Rey’s parents are “important” people, the parentage issue is “fundamental” to the story and “was a central question early on” in TFA’s development (to quote KK).

So no - whatever RJ was allowed freedom to dream up for TLJ, it wasn’t who Rey’s parents actually are.

Nothing about any “democratization of the Force” message.

What defines a “nobody”?

I think LoLS is pretty illuminating on this issue. And consider the context. We the fans think of “nobodies” as “not legacy characters.” I don’t think that’s what Rey meant.

Rey sees shadows in the cave mirror when she asks to see her parents. The cave mirror, being a mirror, reflects what is in front of it, as mirrors tend to do. Where do those shadows originate? “In Rey’s mind” sounds like a reasonable answer. Those don’t look like rando junk traders to me. (Actually, the third and clearest shadow looks and walks rather like RotJ Luke, to me, but that isn’t here nor there atm.) Nor, from what Rey can see, do the shadows look like anyone she’s met. So, yeah....”nobodies.” From a certain point of view.

“Whomever you’re waiting for on Jakku, they’re never coming back.” “Luke.” (And yes, PH confirmed that Maz meant Luke.)

The first two shadows are too blurry to distinguish. The third looks and walks like RotJ Luke, to me (not that Rey could really tell). If the cave shows anything with any reasonable certainty, it’s that Rey doesn’t “know” her parents were “dirty junk dealers who sold her for drinking money.”

See above.

No. The man who saw a demonic murderous Luke about to kill him in his sleep thinks he saw “xyz.”

Oh, it is about Kylo’s credibility if one is claiming that Rey’s parents were junk traders who sold her off. RJ says that Rey “believes” him. He never said she confirmed it. Which makes sense, as she didn’t see “junk traders” in that mirror. Just shadows.

Rey thinks they’re “nobodies.” Again, what Rey means by that word can’t be conflated with what fans mean by that word. You know who was the ultimate “nobody” for many years post RotJ? Luke. He lived like a (poor) nobody. He could spend hours in a crowded cantina and not be recognized. “We’re all Luke Skywalker.” So yeah - if Rey is actually Luke’s daughter, and he raised her until ~ age 5...then she remembered him (and mom) being, well, “nobodies.”

 

Rey may not be a Skywalker, but the whole explanation for her powers is because of the Skywalkers...which kind of undermines the "exciting, new" random approach. If RJ would have thought of a better explanation for her strength other than because as Kylo gets stronger so does she, than the muddled message they are trying to get across within the Skywalker Saga would be more poignant. Instead, we got a new random character propped up by the Skywalkers (in teaching, lightsaber, and power explanation), and even worse, our lead female character was stereotypically reduced to being defined by a male counterpart.

 

I don’t think any canon explanation for Rey’s strength has been given yet.

An explanation would be completely unnecessary, in fact, had the PT not given us a specific reason why Anakin was the strongest FS on record.

If the answer were “Because Reasons,” that would negative a significant element of the PT. RJ has watched the PT. I’m sure he’s aware of all this. And I’m sure the answer is neither “Because Reasons” or because her character is defined by Kylo.

Might have something to do with Rey’s uncanny resemblance to both Padme and young Luke. (I’ve seen 3 possible reasons for this resemblence. One is bizarre and seemingly debunked by Daisy, one is mind-bogglingly outlandish, and one is really, really mundane.)

 

Well... I don't necessarily disagree, I was in the first class car of the Reywalker express, but that's the story that we got. Now I'm trying to see where her story will go and how, hopefully, JJ & co will fully morph this story into her real own adventure while still being interesting.

For example, I used to roll my eyes about all the speculations regarding her lightsaber in IX, because to me it was low-level fan speculation. But I realized that it's important, it's symbolic : she must build, transform this weapon into its own. Let her be a scavenger again, let her change the color, the shape : Rey should, must, become the rightful owner of this legacy, starting from the symbol of the Jedi Knights. And hopefully this re-appropriation will extend beyond simply her weapon.

 

One more time, full Rian's quote:

“I went through all the possibilities of who her parents could be. I made a list, with the upsides and downsides,” he said. “There were two things about this option that made it feel right to me. 1. Firstly. I like the idea that we’re breaking out from the notion that the force is this genetic thing that you have to be tied to somebody to have. It’s the ‘anybody can be president’ idea. 2. “For me, if Rey had gotten the answer that she’s related to so-and-so, had learned her place in the story, that would be the easiest thing she can hear.” he explained. “The hardest thing to hear is, ‘Nope, this not going to define you.’"

TFA Maz (Ben Kenobi): Dear child. I see your eyes. You already know the truth.
TLJ Kylo (Vader): Do you know the truth about your parents? Or have you always known? You've just hidden it away. Say it.

Yes, we, because he was updating regularly his thoughts in his "doc" surrounding TFA questions (and Rey's parentage) and send it to discuss with Kiri and story group. Nothing new, he already talked about it in SlashFilm podcast.

It can "sound like" whatever you want, but both JJ and RJ and story group came to similar answer. We don't ignore interviews from JJ and Pablo's tweets, right?

There is not even one real hint in both films\novels\other content that Rey is Luke's daughther:

- no mention of another tradegy in Skywalker family
- no recognition from 4 family members
- no recognition from Rey
- and the most important: Mark were allowed to create his own tragic backstory for Luke. He didn't play "Luke knows, but wants to save precious Skywalker bloodline in Rey-hero, because if she knew, she would fall to Dark Side, so it's better for her to go to Snoke and Kylo, who, well, can actually tell her that she is his cousin, so... well-planned silence and sacrifice from Luke!"

If she is lost Skywalker, Mark wouldn't need to create his own story.

 

Her level of powers were explained, in my opinion, by the "darkness rises and light to meet it. Skywalker I assumed wrong." And then I believe he said something about his partner in the light growing stronger as he did. That was the explanation I took, and regarding the script, it seems valid.

 

Snoke assumed it had to be a Skywalker, but when he realizes it wasn't he's not like, "That's not possible in the Force!"

(He knows this can happen. If it couldn't, both he and Kylo would be trying to figure out how Rey is a Skywalker when neither of them knew about her.)

Snoke made his assumption because he is obsessed with the Skywalkers and thinks lineage is super important. Both he and Kylo are elitists.

 

Yes thank you for saying this.

This is my problem too.

Rey's character is completely defined by Kylo.

They literally said it in the movie.

It doesnt make Rey important but Kylo.

 

If the Force is at a reset point, perhaps two were going to emerge regardless of which one emerged first. I think Snoke's statement is the tip of a small iceberg. There is more to this, I suspect.

But even if there wasn't, we wouldn't say the PT is more about Darth Sidious than Anakin just because his very existence is due to the darkness Sidious and the Sith before him have brought.

Oh wait. I forgot the Mortis arc. Anakin exists to replace the Father. Had he not been selfish he'd have to stay on Mortis balancing Daughter and Son for some small eternity. His story wouldn't be about him at all. Thankfully, Anakin was good at asking himself, "What about ME?!" Father warned him the entire galaxy would pay for his decision.

 

They don’t literally say it in the movie.

Rey is Kylo’s counterpart in the light, yes. But no reason for this is given. Yet. Sort of like Snoke’s prediction that “If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise.” No actual explanation is given for why the two events are connected.

Anyway, I’m sure we’ll find out about this “mysterious connection” in Ep 9, and that Rey isn’t actuslly defined by Kylo. I take KK at her word when she says that Rey is the “Luke Skywalker” of this trilogy - meaning that the trilogy in centered on her.

 

I don't really agree with this, here's why.

A large part of Rey's arc, IMO, has to do with her not letting others define who she is or what she does. Has to do with learning that she is in control of her own destiny and her own path, no one else. Her parents are an obvious example. But let's look deeper - she goes to Luke, expecting him to teach her, expecting him to return and help the Resistance against the First Order, basically relying on HIM to be the one to help her and her friends out. Her thought process going to Ahch-To may well have been: Oh, well once I find Skywalker, he'll come help us defeat the First Order, and he'll tell me what to do. She's voluntarily putting her destiny and her future in Luke's hands.

Luke disappoints her. He refuses to help her and the Resistance, refuses to teach her about the force at first, and feels that the Jedi order needs to end.

Meanwhile, she gets to know someone else who is very powerful in the force on a very personal level. After several force Skypes and a revelation about what actually happened at Luke's Jedi Temple, she touches hands with Ben Solo and receives a vision of the future. She, prematurely, comes to the conclusion that because of what she saw in her vision, Ben Solo will turn against Snoke and the First Order and help her and the Resistance win. Nothing Luke says can convince her otherwise, and she literally mails herself to Ben, again, putting her destiny and her future in his hands.

Snoke dies, confirming part of her vision, but then Ben disappoints her. He goes psycho-galactic dictator-Anakin Skywalker and wants Rey to rule the galaxy with him. It's here she realizes, uh oh. I didn't see this part in my vision.

She also, in my opinion, makes a decision after this confrontation. She makes a decision that she's not going to let anyone else dictate who she is or what she does. She is going to be the one to help lead the Resistance against the First Order. She's finished expecting others to lay out her path for her, which is why she closes the door on Kylo Ren during their final force Skype.

So, in closing, yes - so far, Rey has let others define her path in this story. I think part of that might be because she feels she has no place in this story, like Kylo tells her - she comes from nothing. I also feel that this was intentionally included in Rey's arc in order to get past it in VIII and she will, hopefully, emerge as the hero she was always meant to be in Episode IX, following her own path and cementing her own legacy in the process.

 

I really hope we get 2 more movies, not 1, because I feel that this realization of Rey’s came rather late in the game if we’re now actuallh 2/3 through the ST.

 

Re: the bold text. Again this is because they're telling the story of the Skywalker saga. They're just focusing in on a vary specific time in the history of the Star Wars universe that is Skywalker centric. To me it makes perfect sense that the Skywalkers are the stars of the Skywalker saga. It's no different than how every story about World War II revolves around Hitler to some degree.

Hypothetically if we were to step back and look at the entire history of the Star Wars universe from the beginning of time we're going to find that the Skywalker story is merely a teeny tiny part of the history of the Force. It's just that the overwhelming majority of the material has focused on that same 60 or years so it makes it feel like everything is Skywalker related.

As far as the Force elitism goes I don't know what to say. George Lucas told us that Anakin was born from the Force itself which makes him different, more powerful, than other Force sensitive people so it stands to reason that his kids and grandkids would have that special power too. Then Luke tells us that his nephew, and none of the dozen random students, possess a raw power and that the only other person that he's seen exhibit that raw power is Rey so that to me suggests that she could be related.

Yes maybe the story they're telling is that the Force has basically created a new special Force user on par with the Skywalkers that isn't related. Totally a possibility. It's also possible she is related.

I hear what you're saying about the Saga films remaining a Skywalker Saga even if Rey isn't a Skywalker but I don't think it's crazy to think that the star of the latest Skywalker saga films is also a Skywalker. Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows?