Games The 25th Jedi Draft - The Silver Anniversary Edition!! (Champion: Point Given!)

The winners of 4 of the last 5 JDs are in these semis plus Wang. Combines for 6 titles. It's stacked yo

 

For the right to lose to the next Jedi Draft Champ

(yes, that is a Reverse Jinx attempt on Pointy G)
(No, I'm not sorry about it)


I'll try to get something up on an argument today, but the priority for concentrated boards time today is getting a round of sims done in the NBA Draft.

 

I'm in no rush to figure out who would win between Kreia and Kam Solusar on my own so y'all have time to go back and forth

 

Guys I hate to do this but I'm gonna have to withdraw from the playoffs, NCIS is running a marathon and I can't miss it. sorry

 

@The Vanguard dude, I'm sorry but there's something you ought to know. And it's been something we should have told you a while ago, and I'm sorry to be the one to do this, but someone has to... NCIS just isn't that great.

 

Kam looks like Kavar to me. Traya killed Kavar. Ergo, Kam and Kavar suck more. Anyone want to argue that Kam sucks less than Traya?

 

I'm planning to

 

Not only does Traya suck more, but her one trick isn't even applicable here. Seriously? What is Traya known for? Telekinetically controlling three lightsabers at once. Rules pretty clearly state that she gets a single lightsaber without prep. And, let's be honest - using telekenesis to control one lightsaber? I mean, sure, if her hope is to get Kam laughing so hard so she can exploit an opening.

Beyond that, Kam has an experience edge. He survived two major wars, fighting in them on the frontlines. The Yuuzhan Vong war was a true test of the Jedi abilities, hardening and sharpening Jedi tools, and the second Galactic Civil war put him through hell again. He's got the training edge, too - trained by Luke, sparred with Jacen and Jaina. Traya ... hangs out with a guy who wishes he was Galactus? And the Sith Lord most likely to slam his bedroom door and listen to Linkin Park? (I can still make that claim since Ren isn't *technically* a Sith Lord).

In a match-up of pooka nobodies, it's the small things. Traya is a liar and a trickster. Kam is a survivor. And when you think about Survivor, you think about the Eye of the Tiger. And Kam Solusar has the thrill of the fight. and he's risin' up to the challenge of his rival.

 

Response tonight

 

Sorry Inty, but April Fools is still a month away. Kam was about as far away from the frontlines as you could possibly be and still be in the same galaxy. 'Glorified babysitter' remember? He's been at the academy watching over younglings since the start of NJO and that stuck through LOTF and FOTJ. If you can point out a single instance of Kam facing a YV, I'd be seriously impressed. Likewise for a Lost Tribe Sith. Like I said, all he does is get gunned down by GAG nobodies.

Yeah Streen, Cilghal, and Tionne are really tearing these drafts up.... Being trained by someone good doesn't automatically make you good.

​

I'd honestly take Kavar over Kam fairly easily. We at least know Kavar was a Weaponsmaster and has *actually fought* in wars.

I stand by what I've said previously: that Traya has shown much more power and technique (and, yes, even lightsaber skill despite having only 1 hand) in the Force than what we've seen from Kam.

"So many times, it happens too fast//You trade your passion for glory" The song is saying not to give up on your passion. "Through passion I gain strength" is the foundation of the Sith code. Seems more pro-Traya than pro-Kam.

 

Guys it's called "Eye of the Tiger," the song's about Juhani

 

I live in Donald Trump's America. I don't need to back up my claims with evidence.

 

Location: Caves under the Silent Desert, Tython

Numbers 2, 5, 8

Match 1 vs. 4

Point Given (1) vs. Wang Chi (2)

2. Darth Vader vs. 2. Saba Sebatyne trumped with Tresina Lobi
5. Arcann vs. 5. Obi-Wan Kenobi
8. The Exile (PREP) vs. 8. Qui-Gon Jinn trumped with Arca Jeth (FORFEIT)

Match 2 vs. 3

DarkEagle (2) vs. DarthIntegral (1)

2. Lord Kaan/Lord Kas'im vs. 2. Ganner Rhysode TRUMPED W/ Kol Skywalker
5. Darth Traya vs. 5. Kam Solusar
8. Darth Krayt vs. 8. Tott Donetta/Cay Qel-Droma TRUMPED W/ Thon/Nomi Sunrider

@Yodaminch
@Evil Incarnate
@KenKenobi

Let's judge these please.

 

Damn, I've been played (just like the American people)

But just like DT, Kam is a war dodger

 

Location: Caves under the Silent Desert, Tython

Numbers 2, 5, 8

Match 1 vs. 4

Point Given (1) vs. Wang Chi (2)

2. Darth Vader vs. 2. Saba Sebatyne trumped with Tresina Lobi

Let's be honest, Tresina dies early on and it's really Saba vs Vader. Now, maybe if Saba prepared for it and had her former apprentice (Leia) or better yet Luke, she might have a chance. Short of that though, it's never in doubt.

5. Arcann vs. 5. Obi-Wan Kenobi

I look at it like this: Arcann is a close archetype to Anakin. The Outlander is closer to Obi-Wan. Generally considered less powerful than the raw power of Arcann but with skill and patience, the Outlander defeats Arcann. But when we look at Rebels as Obi-Wan's peak and how quickly he dispatched Maul, how he had defeated Anakin and Grievous as well, Arcann doesn't really have the skill needed to beat Obi-Wan. Raw power yes. But that won't be enough.


8. The Exile (PREP) vs. 8. Qui-Gon Jinn trumped with Arca Jeth (FORFEIT)

Match 2 vs. 3

DarkEagle (2) vs. DarthIntegral (1)

2. Lord Kaan/Lord Kas'im vs. 2. Ganner Rhysode TRUMPED W/ Kol Skywalker

So Ganner basically killed a bunch of non-sith. Kol killed a bunch of no name sith. Neither of these duels showed that they are really that skilled against superior opponents- just good at taking out canon fodder and staying alive long enough for others to escape. These are great last stands, but they are fatal. Kas'im is a blademaster and Kaan, while crazy, was also pretty powerful. Kaan takes Ganner and Kas'im takes Kol. Another great last stand for the jedi, but I don't see a win here.

5. Darth Traya vs. 5. Kam Solusar

The problem with Kam is wasted potential. At the start of his debut, he has the potential to be the successor to Luke. And in a way, he is as he gets the Academy. But then the order is given to Kenth "dumbest death ever" Hamner. And Kam is basically forgotten. He never fights any major bad guys. Even when it comes to Conquest, he evacuates the children. Talon Karrde does more work. Heck, Booster just shows up and asks which way his grandchildren are before firing everything at the vong. Corran does more heavy lifting than Kam and he's in an X-Wing. And then there is the idiotic writing with the GAG shooting Kam who was dumb enough to run in the first place with sharpshooters around and the only miracle there being he survived while Tionne got her arm and leg shot off by a sadistic officer. Not a great showing. Kam doesn't go and fight the sith. He has an honorable job in protecting the kids though. But this takes him out of action for years.

Which is why I compare him to Kavar or even Vrook. Jedi who were also out of action for years. Traya used the Exile to kill them of course, but it's more the fact that she was able to do it rather effortlessly. She's far from a skilled duelist. She has however, demonstrated more powerful uses of the force. I think this is what gives her the edge in this match. Kam might well beat her in a duel. But he's not demonstrated much in the way of force talents for a very long time. It's a shame too as one would expect more from a guy drawn like Bruce Willis:



8. Darth Krayt vs. 8. Tott Donetta/Cay Qel-Droma TRUMPED W/ Thon/Nomi Sunrider

This is interesting, but really Krayt has already demonstrated his skill against multiple enemies. Nomi might pose an interesting duel for a bit, but the end isn't in doubt. Krayt wins.

 

oh, ****. I forgot there were other matches worth arguing.

 

Let's roll...

PG vs. Wang

Vader over Saba/Lobi
Kenobi over Arcann— Arcann has some great moments no doubt. But I’m KenKenobi. He’s not beating Kenobi.
Textile (prep) via forfeit


DE vs. Inty

The Ganner/Kol vs. Kaan/Kas’im—"So Ganner basically killed a bunch of non-sith" lmao

Of all the ass-backwards things to say @Yodaminch, this is your opus man. They were hordes of Yuuzhan Vong warriors, with ridiculous biotech (vonduun crab armor resistant to lightsabers, homing-missile blast bugs splashing fire, live amphistaffs spewing and injecting venom) and unable to even be sensed in the Force, let alone stopped with powers. As a feat of individual combat, besting a single Yuuzhan Vong warrior is on par with or above your average Sith-- Ganner cut down thousands of them and had great showings even before his last stand. Dismissing them as "non-Sith" is just criminal. The abilities it takes to defeat one are exemplary of exactly the things you'd need to use in a draft setting. But using that logic to then say that Kaan, who himself is never seen fighting another Force-user or really anyone, would take him out is just unfathomable. I'd maybe stick to GMing next draft.

In this match Kaan really needs to BM boost Kas’im to be most effective, but he'll have to contend with (likely) Kol hounding him the whole time. Kas’im still brings some great skill even without it, but The Ganner (even without the last stand) can cleave through shape-shifting amphistaffs without the aid of Force precognition and was one of the better TK dudes in the NJO. In a dog fight in these tunnels I'm going with that.

Krayt over Thon Steak™— Honestly this trump made me vote for Thon more than once, congrats on that Inty. And it's really his & Nomi's (mostly Nomi's) ability to pour in support to a fun Cay/Totts duo that makes this foursome. But I think Krayt knocks them around and spoils this boondog party by keeping them on their heels early. Or claws or whatever Thon has.


Darth Traya vs. Kam Solusar

So the semis really come down to...this haha. But digging deep for a breakdown was kinda nice! (Minus the part where I went back into old drafts and saw my 16 y/o self using the term “retarded” about things related to KotOR 2, ya live and ya learn). Going through old sourcebook, video game, and Dark Horse/Bantam-era content was nostalgic as hell. The new canon is fresh and exciting, but there's such a depth to the universe that preceded it and I love that we all find ways to still have touchpoints with it here. Seriously love it and all you peeps.

So problem that kept popping up is that many of the things we can evaluate them on are caveated in some way...

Kam

• Dark Empire II: Duels Luke…but while we only have the DE audio to go off, it’s clear Luke is never in any kind of peril. He parries everything and is pretty much 100% focused on turning Kam to the Light Side. He also outduels Vill Goir, but it's in large part b/c his familiarity-- Kam literally says "Don't forget you showed me all your moves when I was a slave of the Dark Side!" before killing him (he adds "And I recognized that one all too well" after the screamy death sound).
  
  
• Empire's End: Takes on Nist's Dark Jedi with Luke, Rayf, and Empanada Brand (he's kinda empanada-shaped and that's easier to spell than he real name, so...) ...but gets disarmed and needs Luke to knock over a Vader statue to save him.
  
  
• Crosscurrent: Has a clone that almost kills Jaden Korr! …but it’s clearly written that the clone was “larger than Kam, more there” and since the battle turns in the clone’s favor in part b/c of its Force-augmented physical strength, not a perfect comp.
  
  
• LotF Inferno: Attack on the Jedi Academy, “Kam’s rage boiled over, and Jaina sensed him losing control” oh snap he’s go back to his dark roots! …“Jaina turned her attention to the courtyard below and was horrified to see Kam Solusar on the ground, three columns of smoke rising from his motionless body” …oh.

Traya

• Fights Textile…but gets pretty well whooped. And if she really can't use the 3-floaty-saber thing here that's not good.
  
  
• Kills the remaining Jedi Council in one swoop…but it’s a blindside attack and was just cutting them off from the Force, a la Nomi on Ulic, and what killed them was their overreliance on it (yeah, KotOR 2 was retar— KotOR 2 was interesting)
  
  
• Takes Malachor back from Sion as DE mentioned…but more b/c she was like his mother, it's really just a Force choke and then she manipulates him into not fighting. When he was actually trying to beat her he bossed her hand right off.

That’s tough to find an edge, and it only gets tougher when considering they’ve spent the majority of their lives doing similar things— studying and teaching students. We obviously know more about Kreia’s knowledge as she imparts it to you as the player character, but we get a nice look into Kam’s lightsaber technique as he teaches it to "you" as Corran in I,Jedi. Also he in-universe co-authors Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force (which Kreia is in!) with his wife, so it's basically a wash.

And while Kreia creeps around a bunch, which would be useful in these caves, Kam used Fallanassi techniques to hide the entire Jedi Academy on Yavin IV before the Yuuzhan Vong finally attacked.

There are, however, a few other standout things for each, which I think encompass how they'd approach this fight..

For Kam there's Darksaber. He Force-hurls some boulders from a Massassi Temple into TIE fighters from Pellaeon's fleet to knock them outta commission, but also pulls this:

It’s not entirely clear but it’s likely this Juggernaut is in the same kinda model as the multi-wheeled tanks used in the Clone Wars. In that case the cannons (the text says there's 3 of them) aren’t that humongous, but it’s still a brilliant way to stare down an armored assault vehicle and obliterate it.

Also he adds this bit at the end…

Nice.

Additonally there's his duel against Xecr Nist, a pooka Dark Jedi if there ever was one, but he gets to show off his lightsaber skill with a deft feint after cutting through other adepts.

For Kreia, it’s knocking out Sion's troops as she returns to Malachor for the end game. Unfortunately we don't see how she does it, the screen goes black and they just flop over dead. It's that lack of clarity along with her subpar showings-- owned by Nihilus/Sion in their betrayal, owned by Sion again at Peragus, owned by Textile at the end-- that prevent the feat from being very impactful against most draft opponents.

BUT she also does it again against Bao-Dur...kind of. It's part of a DS-only playthrough, so questionably canon (well..."Legends canon"), but he tells her to bugger off the Ebon Hawk and she takes him down in the same way as the Sion crew.

There's added color to this through the game's dialog.tlk file (where modders go to find sound/script files for restoration attempts). Which gives us:

That points, maybe a bit tenuously, at her using TK to knock out those troops (Note: for the actual troop sequence it's written that it's *supposed* to be vague. There's also notably files in there where, on Malachor, she takes on your entire party as they try to ambush her and she wipes them out easily...but this doesn't show up in-game at all, so that's a little unfair to use)


So what does this come down to? Is anyone even still reading? I see Kam's path to victory as taking Kreia head-on and pressing the attack with his blade. His advantages, in those DS and DE examples, are in physical strength augmenting his lightsaber prowess and some offensive TK-- things that Kreia really had trouble with in all her losses. But that requires him to make it a traditional duel, and if she hits him with powers-- Force-crush, or getting inside his noggin, or even taking off into the tunnels to plan other attacks-- it could take him out of that element, which has proved his weakness in places like EE and LotF.

Given the location and how she could hit him before he closes on her, I lean toward the latter. But also...

That response is fire.

So this was all just a long way of saying I agree with @Yodaminch on this one lol.

Winner: Darth Traya

 

Voting Kaan/Kas'im might also end it, if that makes things more palatable to you Though Inty *can * still get to teams.

Good find on that Darksaber quote- I had forgotten that there was a ground battle then

 

I know when I'm beaten. Good game, @DarkEagle . Good luck against Pointy G.

 

GG Inty, you played well

 

I have to go against the team that got Vader in the second round???

 

Location: Caves under the Silent Desert, Tython

Numbers 2, 5, 8

Match 1 vs. 4

Point Given (4) vs. Wang Chi (3)

2. Darth Vader vs. 2. Saba Sebatyne trumped with Tresina Lobi
5. Arcann vs. 5. Obi-Wan Kenobi
8. The Exile (PREP) vs. 8. Qui-Gon Jinn trumped with Arca Jeth (FORFEIT)

Match 2 vs. 3

DarkEagle (5) vs. DarthIntegral (1)

2. Lord Kaan/Lord Kas'im vs. 2. Ganner Rhysode TRUMPED W/ Kol Skywalker
5. Darth Traya vs. 5. Kam Solusar
8. Darth Krayt vs. 8. Tott Donetta/Cay Qel-Droma TRUMPED W/ Thon/Nomi Sunrider

________________________________________________________________________

For continuity sake...

Numbers 1, 3, 6, 9

Match 1 vs. 4

Point Given (4) vs. Wang Chi (3)

1. Desann/Tavion Axmis vs. 1. Ki-Adi Mundi/Oppo Rancisis trumped with Kit Fisto/Aayla Secura (FORFEIT)
3. Bastila Shan vs. 3. Leia Organa-Solo (prepared)
6. Antares Draco/Ganner Krieg vs. 6. Tresina Lobi trumped with Saba Sebatyne (FORFEIT)
9. Revan vs. 9. Fay trumped with Ahsoka Tano (FORFEIT)

Match 2 vs. 3

DarkEagle (5) vs. DarthIntegral (1)

1. Vaylin vs. 1. Satele Shan
3. Sora Bulq trumped w/ Jerec/Sariss vs. 3. Thon/Nomi Sunrider TRUMPED W/ Tott Donetta/Cay Qel-Droma (FORFEIT)
6. Viun Gaalan vs. 6. Jaden Korr
9. Sarasu Taalon vs. 9. Ganner Rhysode TRUMPED Kol Skywalker (FORFEIT)

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

So, since @DarthIntegral and @Wang Chi have yielded, I thank them for joining the game and making it fun with their arguments, opinion, and advice. Well Done gents.

So now we have...


@Point Given vs. @DarkEagle

Gents, Numbers please.

 

@Wang Chi - up for a third place game?