ST JJ Abrams directing Episode IX Discussion

What did Daisy say?

 

He was fired because he couldn’t write an adequate story after Carrie’s passing. If you read the last couple of pages it’s clear that CT knew about TLJ when he was brought on years ago when it was close to wrapping principle photography. If he had issues he would’ve brought them up then two years ago.

Despite that he stayed on for two years. He wasn’t fired because he wanted TLJ changed he just couldn’t reconfigure his story to accommodate Carrie’s passing.

Please stop with this line of thinking as it makes CT appear inept, unprofessional especially when we have the actual reason.

 

here's what I saw
"It’s from an interview she did in January with geek le mag. She said JJ wrote drafts for tlj and ep 9 and he and Rian discussed. The directors were free to realize the script in their own way but Daisy is implying JJ thought Rian was going to keep most of his draft and Rian kept none of it."

So it really might be up to JJ to decide where the story goes from here. He mentioned before that he returned to finish the stories of the characters he made, but in the spirit of episode 7. Honestly that can mean anything at this point, but if the course really did change with Rian, JJ could bring it back more towards his vision.

 

Remember, though, that ages ago Abrams himself praised the TLJ script, even going as far as to say he wished he was directing it himself. Also, something sounds sketchy about Abrams suddenly writing a treatment for the entire trilogy. I don't think that has been speculated or rumoured anywhere before now. Odd. I’m sure something that huge would have come up before. Maybe she was misquoted? It just doesn’t feel right.

 

To be fair though, DIsney and LFL seem to be pretty strict on how people speak on their stories, so it's not like he would've been allowed to say anything different, especially since he was executive producer, which includes handling the monetary and technical side of things. Remember when Rian said Finn was absolutely a main protagonist who went on a "huge arc of his own?" Sometimes they have to just say these things to please people, especially since they couldn't really say any other alternative.

Mark used to still openly talk about his concerns and disagreements with Rian over Luke, and how upset he was, but after a while notice how he toned it back big time? Yeah I know he had to warm up to it of course, but it's still worth mentioning. Now every time someone brings it up he's praising Rian and his writing decisions as if nothing was wrong.

Considering Daisy said she already knew the answer to Rey's parentage back when JJ was in charge, I wouldn't put it past her to know some more insider things concerning the story as well.

I can't read minds or anything, but it's still a business after all.

 

Just found this.

 

You know...despite them saying there has been no overall plan for the trilogy and each director has been given free reign, it is hard to believe that there was no working together at all, especially if all 3 scripts were being compiled before TFA even came out. Obviously IX had to start all over, but minus that fact, how am I supposed to believe they working on 3 scripts all before TFA release and there wasn't any collusion at all?

Edit: Nevermind...I've rethunk this...I mean, there had to be a tiny bit of working together (RJ requesting the R2/BB-8 change, etc.) But it IS doable that each director has written his fully original story, which has been stated.

 

It would not surprise me if they had roughed out the broad strokes of where things might head. That doesn't mean the next person in would need to be hemmed in by them. These things are always fluid - until they're not.

 

Exactly. Anyone suggesting JJ had it mapped out in any way only for RJ to throw it all out should consider the fact JJ has decided to come back. If he thought it was trashed there is no way he would come in to 'fix' it. There is also those quotes from one of JJ's closest confidantes saying how JJ wished he had written the script for TLJ because it was so good.

It is clear as day JJ loved what RJ did, hence why he was happy to come in at late notice to finish the trilogy.

 

I think people forget that even if one person was directing and writing all three films, there would most likely have been a lot of change in direction. You only have to look at the changes that both TFA and TLJ went through. I think if people had more experience of the development process they would be less fazed by all of this.

 

Yeah, this information contradicts everything that was said before by KK, Arndt, Kasdan, JJ and RJ. For sure, they had some kind of plan or outline, but full treatments for VIII and IX?

JJ and Kasdan had 6-7 weeks to write TFA. They were on the tightest schedule possible for such project.

RJ started writing while JJ was making TFA. Even if JJ found time and energy to create treatments for two episodes in this period, something was off because they invited RJ very early.

Anyway, JJ himself rewrote some parts of TFA while shooting it. Treatment based only on first draft of the script is not the same as writing the script after watching dailies and final cut.

 

The one thing I think they broadly knew - and that remained pretty much the same even as it got spread across TLJ and TFA was the backstory involving Luke, his academy and the Jedi Killer's betrayal driving Luke into exile. I'm sure as they were coming up with the story they had ideas of where they could go, but having come up with long arcing stories before you don't need more than a basic idea of where you're going, until you need to pin it down. Sure, you could map it all out in detail, but even if you did, it would all still be subject to change until the last minute, if you felt you had a better idea, even as late as the edit. Of course, the more you lock down, the less you're able to go back and revise, and you're perhaps limited to retcons, but you're still having to come up with the story bit by bit anyway. Ultimately you can set it all down in stone in advance, or be more fluid - both have pluses and minuses, and neither guarantees success or an avoidance of failure.

 

I think JJ and Kasdan had a general idea... there are some quotes that hint that.
Many ideas about the characters, their backstories and arcs.

But of course they didn’t use them all for TFA.
On the contrary: when JJ talked about how TFA script was made
he said the point was choosing how much of all that to use.
How much reveal etc...

But this precedes the final script.

Once they started shooting some of those ideas were put in TFA but most not.

RJ and CT came on board later on.

About Rian, JJ not only said he liked the script but that he was also
surprised by it, that RJ added something he couldn’t imagine.

I’m sorry I cannot search now for the actual quotes... but you may remember

However, I think Daisy was aware of JJ’s vision... and from an early stage.
It’s not surprising. And maybe others did as well.

Because it helps to understand the characters and give life to them.

RJ came on board when they were already filming.
And I don’t think he spoke with the actors then.

And that it’s why many of them were surprised reading TLJ script.

Overall I don’t think this explain that much about the CT affair.
But it helps to understand other things.

One is that it’s unfair to say that JJ had no idea about what the story was
going to be.

But at the same time it’s untrue that there was a plan.
It’s true... all of it

JJ had a vision, but they wanted the directors to be free to do what they feel right.
And the end game should have been whatever CT wanted. Now it’s up
to JJ again.

I’m also sure there was cooperation between the directors, JJ an RJ and I’m sure
RJ and CT tried. But it’s a not a given that they were capable to succeed
Not because one is a good guy and the other a jerk.
But because it may be difficult to armonize personal takes.

Sometimes it just doesn’t work. Remember RJ saying about CT “ I hope
I’m not his Greedo”?

But this is the limit/risk of this kind of process.

We know - for instance - that GL changed his mind doing the OT and the PT
but it was “his” mind. And overall it was his story, his way of thinking etc...
And his style.

It was easier. And as audience you always get the feeling it’s the same guy
telling the same story.

This is another kind of process. How much it worked only time will tell.

 

Exactly. GL was overseeing OT and PT when he was not writing and directing, so those 2 trilogies are one man's vision. And yet there are inconsistencies, plot holes, continuity issues. Point is, franchises are not concerned with any of these cause they are after the best idea at the moment. So if GL thought the best solution to Luke, Han, Leia triangle was to make Luke and Leia a brother and a sister, despite a kiss in ESB, he went for it. Likewise, despite ROTJ strongly implying that Padme was alive when Leia was a young girl, he thought it was a better idea for ROTS to have her die in childbirth and went for it. It's fans who are nitpicky about continuity but film-makers are not and never will be.

Point is, one man vision or multiple people's vision, there will always be discrepancies. Even LOTR has them and those movies were made back to back and based on the source that had the detailed story finished from beginning to the end.

I agree that they have a general idea about the most important stuff but not exact details how to get from A to B, and that less important stuff is up for grabs (as long as ideas appeal to TPTB that decide whether writers and directors stay or go).

 

JJ's final script plotline.
They're actually all dead and they've been in Force Limbo the whole time.

 

Everything you wrote is pure speculation. We don’t really know why Trevorrow left.

 

From a Vanity Fair interview with Kennedy last year, confirming that the storyline for Episode IX was in place before Fisher's passing:

And as for Episode IX, how mapped out is it?

Well, as you can imagine, we were really stunned by the death of Carrie. So we had mapped something out a year ago that [Episode IX writer-director] Colin Trevorrow was working on. In fact, he delivered a script to us in early December. So her death was a real shock, and changed things quite dramatically.

So General Leia was going to be a significant part of Episode IX.

Really significant, yeah.

And now that’s going to have to be—

Rethought.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/kathleen-kennedy-on-the-future-of-star-wars

 

Except for the fact that there are dozens of articles from reputable sources that state that he struggled with the script and that the loss of Carrie meant a huge rewrite.

We know the timeline of when he was added and when he began working on the script. If he’d had major reservations about how TLJ was going to happen he would’ve brought them up when he was brought on. Not 3 months out from it’s theatrical release.

It’s not speculation.

 

That's fine...everything points to JJ liking what Rian did with TLJ. That doesn't mean all fans have to, though. Never before did we know that JJ actually outlined 8 and 9 and then RJ threw it out. That news was surprising to me, because I didn't expect they were ever planning to map it out. It seemed obvious they were giving 100% leeway to each director they chose. I didn't expect JJ would have been hired to write outlines for 8 and 9. That doesn't really make sense to me. Why have him do that if you're gonna hire Rian and tell him he has total control?

I'm sure JJ is coming back simply because he loves the franchise and sees an opportunity to close out the story in IX, regardless of how TLJ ended. It may be true that his job is far more difficult now, since his original plans for 8 were discarded.

 

Well as far i am concerned i have always felt there was a broad outline to follow. I also expect that there has been shed loads of discussion over the journey between all the major players, especially JJ & RJ. Each director is in total control;of his movie though,

The whole trilogy has and continues to be fluid as it should be. If i had a complaint it would be that in an ideal world the initial broad outline would hve been developed over a much longer period of time. For me many of the faults fans are seeing in this trilogy are due to the short time they had to come up with it.

 

For me I'm excited that JJ is at the helm for IX. I thought TFA was a really good movie, and TLJ left me feeling empty and for me personally was a bust. I have no knowledge of why who did what and how it all REALLY came to be, but JJ being put in charge was a positive thing for IX in my opinion. It's actually the only reason I even have any interest in the new movie at all.

 

Maybe they pull a Dallas and have Rey wake up to find Ben in the shower and it was all a dream the whole time.

 

Never thought I'd say this but: "Glad you're back J.J., glad you're back; all is forgiven...the Death Star 3.0., Tatooine 2.0., the Nope, the new holographic evil mastermind...everything; just don't make IX as bad as VIII"

 

I'm interested to see how JJ handles the conclusion cause his strength has always been casting and set up but never follow up and third act/finale. So this will be an interesting challenge for him and hopefully he's up to task.

 

Star Wars Episode IX: The Deathly Hallows.