ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Well, the novelization is making me roll my eyes at Kylo and all of his supposed "rage" and "churning emotions". And I'm questioning whether I really want him to be with Rey after all. Maybe I just need time to process what I just read, ugh.

 

The novel shouldnt sway your opinion! Film is canon, the novels couldn't capture Adams beautiful nuance and emotion that we see on screen.

 

Kylo is full of churning emotions and rage though... He's on the dark side and utilizes his negative emotions to fuel his powers.

 

They're literally not even trying to be subtle anymore, it feels they're just one misstep away from straight up telling everyone the ending of the Skywalker Saga.

What's next? Star Wars IX: Will of the Force? Trailers with Across the stars playing in the background? Wouldn't be surprised.

 

Kylo is hurt and afraid bcoz of Luke.

He is in pain bcoz he thinks Luke betrayed him. Kylo saw Luke as his father figure, so Luke's betrayal broke his trust and his heart.
He is afraid bcoz he thinks Luke will kill him just like he tried to do that night.
Thats his fear.

Regarding the jealousy, its also bcoz of Luke.
He thinks Luke chose Rey over him.
He thinks Luke didnt love him as much as HE loved Luke, his uncle and master.
Kylo is not projecting here.

The whole Crait sequence is about Luke and Kylo's relationship, it has nothing to do with Rey.
Luke's love for his only nephew and Kylo's insecurities, pain, fear, anger and rage over Luke's betrayal.

When Kylo says " she has aligned herself with the old ways that have to die. No more masters. I will destroy her and you and all of it. Know that."
He means the old Jedi ways that he wants to 'kill', bcoz he has suffered for it.
Its an answer to Luke's "i will not be the last jedi".
He thinks that Luke is talking about Rey but NO, he is wrong.

But there is still 9.
Luke will be with Ben always.
He will make Kylo understand.

 

He is equal parts light and dark.

 

Yeah but it seems very childish, borderline ridiculous. Just comes off as a bad person all around. And Rey has gone through worse and has way more reason to be angry/hateful but isn't. At this point I admit that I don't fully understand why she's bothering with him.

 

I LOVE across the stars.
So i will be really happy if they do this.

Also good on you for getting the hints.

 

We still dont know Kylo's story and his POV.
Just saying.

 

what did you see before that is gone?

 

In the movie, I saw what I thought was Kylo's compassion for Rey. In the novel, it's spelled out that he's selfish and using her for his gain. And he looks down on her for sparing his life after the throne room fight. I used to want to see him redeemed but now I'm like what for? He's a terrible person who's been given so many chances already. And it's implied that he was unstable/violent as a teen as well according to Leia's flashbacks. I'm sure he "feels abandoned" for being sent to Luke but Leia and Han had obviously reached a limit with him.

 

The problem here, at least for me, is the narrative breaks down in the novel and the author relies on adjectives and not actions. Fry is telling and failing to show us what’s going on. Yes, we all know Kylo is filled with rage and pain. But Fry didn’t get the benefit of seeing Driver show is what Kylo is feeling. Because Driver doesn’t spoonfeed crap like “I’m angry.” He brings it to life. Here, I think Fry phones it in instead for showing us.

It’s bad writing here, and the characterization suffers in this passage.

 

Hm, how does it make him look bad? If he had angry issues and didn't know how to control the Force, the worst thing thing to "fix" is to try to become a Jedi. Where they teach you to repress your anger and to fear your emotions. With influence from both sides it made him more unstable and he chose the easy way after he become afraid that Luke will kill him.

The fall to the dark side is always connected to the fear.

There were problems with Jedi methods and Kylo Ren is a symbol of this. History repeats itself and again Skywalker falls to the dark side after struggles with anger and fear.

Nowhere it's implied that they "reached a limit with him"? Leia wanted Luke to help him early, but Luke didn't know if he wants to become a teacher (which connected to Snoke as many other things). Han actually didn't think it was a great idea, but Han didn't know about Snoke.

Leia straight out thinks in the novel that she blames Luke and Snoke for what happened with Ben. (Not that this is absolutely true, because Ben is sane person and responsible himself, but it's never implied that "she reached a limit with him" when he was a teen).

We got nothing from Kylo about what happened pre-Luke situation and his relationship with Snoke. Which is not surprising.

I think the movie and the novel show that he has compassion for her and using her for his cause. The same thing Rey is doing?

Kylo is a bad person and I think it's clear in the movie after he ignored her demand to stop FO. Somehow the novel will make this decision good? Kylo is in very bad place because he blinded by anger and fear. And he is reaching out to Rey and tries to help her in the only way he can understand in that moment. The novel didn't portrait it or spell out selfish because he had absolutely nothing to gain actually with this.

He can't "return" to the light just because it's useful for Rey. Because the light "side" brought him fear and he can only overcome it after real confrontation with Luke.

That's what the novel spells out in the end via Rey? It's one thing to show compassion and another thing is to believe that a person will be "fixed" and will be useful to you. The first is right but the second one is self-destructive and selfish.

 

I do think some Reylos try a bit too hard to look for things that make Ben seem like he's a good person who's just misunderstood. So some of them get a bit bummed when it's confirmed that yes, he is indeed still a bad person at the moment.

Just chill, we know there's light in him, we know there's hope for him. Just let his character get there first. It'll happen.

 

Regarding compassion for Rey, Snoke detected that in the TFA novelization/cut scene. I think it's still there in TLJ and it's connected to the part of Kylo seeking a companion and kindred in Rey. But if it is to be realized more fully that would have to wait until IX because it's too early in TLJ.

One can also argue whether it's still there in the end of TLJ. If we're going by the Fry novelization, we know Kylo isn't all evil even at the end IMO from Luke's perception. Luke still senses Ben in there. But he also knows Ben was broken and beyond his ability to fix.

AD said in some interview that Kylo hates Rey but can't help but admire her. Because he craves respect he has none to give. And he mentioned something about it turning into more corrosive envy. I think this may refer to Kylo at the end of the movie.

In the Fry novelization Rey senses Kylo will find his way eventually and the Force is not done with him.

Kylo in IX is up in the air. It's up to where this story is going.

He is a bad person; a terrible person. But I thought that was clear in TFA too. RJ didn't think he was as evil as Vader. He can come back, but again, it's up in the air.

 

With one movie left, he's getting there and nothing in the novel made me think otherwise.

 

It was more than anger issues. He was physically destroying things and making his parents afraid of him. And Luke saw a future of Ben as a genocidal maniac. He didn't create Kylo or 'push' him into turning to the dark side - his nephew was already well on his way there all by himself.

The fact Han and Leia sent him away means they were at a limit. Their son was so unstable and possibly abusive that it was out of their ability to help and they were also in fear of their own safety.

Compared to how Luke and Rey were in their youth, Ben was always psychotic but got the privileged way out - Jedi training instead of punishment.

I have more sympathy for the stormtroopers who were kidnapped and indoctrinated against their will. They didn't sign up to participate in mass killings against the innocent population, but he did.

Rey wanted to save both the Resistance fleet and Ben Solo. Luke's crime was that he was tempted to stop someone from becoming a mass murderer, and she took the mass murderer's side. Yeah that was in the movie too but the novel made it even more blatantly absurd. And he had everything to gain by having Rey, another powerful Force user, at his side. He would've had a beautiful woman helping him rule the galaxy.

The novel made it clear to me that he was always a bad person.

 

I don't think it's that up in the air. But that's only because I know Star Wars and I know they're not gonna crap on the entire Skywalker saga by having him die unredeemed, and have Han's death go in vain and arguably Luke's from a certain point of view. Were this a different, less hopeful franchise, I'd totally agree with you that it's up in air.

 

You are so right!

 

Does that mean our pure and perfect Rey will kill Kylo and end his EVILNESS forever ????

 

Hah. I don't know these things. I think that *I* see Star Wars that way from the OT. But I am not sure how current LFL sees it.

 

Is there anywhere that specifies just how early Snoke started messing with and manipulating him? From birth? 2 years old? 10 years old? When?

 

Not yet, that I know of. There was that Matt Martin tweet where he said little Ben Solo was so sweet (or something) before he met Uncle Snoke, in response to Last Shot passages.

 

I'd damn well hope they'd see it that way otherwise they'd be betraying George's vision of it pretty hard. Even the darkest Star Wars movie ROTS ends on a hopeful note with baby Luke.

 

I doubt it.

Kylo is being given endless chances just on account of being a Skywalker. He's done nothing to deserve it but that's the "hopeful ending" we all apparently want?