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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Plot Holes In The ST

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by zackm, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Maybe he’s a Gary Sue. He can use a blaster, pilot, and mop floors. He is, after all, The Finn. The Big Deal.
     
  2. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Wait? Finn mopping floors? Broom boy ....
    They are related for sure!
     
  3. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Rey never went to Jakku on TLJ. Even if she did, given that celestial bodies have different light/day cycles, not even counting that some may have multiple light sources, would make a direct comparison impossible.

    Also, not everything we watch in the movie happens in a linear way. Some things may be in parallel.

    Finn did contribute to a lot of knowledge, but he could only share the knowledge he had.
    He did not know about the hyperspace tracking, but he knew where the breaker room was located.

    Rey was trying to escape that place which had armies of thousands troopers and was falling apart.
    Finally, Rey did not want to kill Kylo, she wanted to turn him.
    And the lightsaber was destroyed, how would Rey be able to kill him?

    As soon as Rose crashed into Finn's ship, Luke was entering the battlefield. All focus turned to Luke.
    Additionally, the movie shows people using trenches to move around to near the base entrance.

    He sent a few, got to destroy the hangar and the main bridge, but two TIEs were destroyed and Kylo was asked to return, as he was outside their effective range for protection. Additionally, Snoke was clearly pleased with the chase, and in fact even used it to torture Rey.

    I think it is reasonable to assume that if the Resistance fleet was destroyed, Rey would not have any reason to be lured into the Supremacy.

    Jumping ahead, also called a micro-jump, is something that requires special capabilities from a ship. This was only seen in Rebels, and only a single ship was able to do that.
    Also, if we enter this field, we can question why the DS1 didn't micro-jump and destroyed the Rebels in ANH. There is a level of just having to accept things that is required to watch Star Wars.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  4. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Thats a BS analogy. A grunt mopping floors at the battalion, company, or brigade is ALOT different than mopping the floors at the White House AND the Pentagon. And how much sensitive information were you privy to while mopping? Because in the U.S. there's a massive vetting process for those responsible for cleaning top secret areas...many are cleaned by little "roomba" type things to mitigate the leaking of information/ensuring no one knows certain layouts and other aspects of top secret buildings.

    Finn wasnt just mopping his units floor but TOP secret locations....and it just so happened they were the most important locations
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  5. zackm

    zackm Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Why would you compare The Supremacy and Star Killer Base to the White House and the Pentagon?

    The Supremacy and Star Killer Base are the two primary hubs for the First Order and both host over a million First Order personnel.
     
  6. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    How does that matter? The point is soldiers while still in training are given menial jobs to do. That doesn't mean that for life they should be labelled "cleaners" or "janitors". That's as dumb as perpetually calling Luke a farmhand, or Anakin a shop attendant.
     
  7. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    So, by the third film in the trilogy they will stop referencing his accomplishments as a member of the First Order solely in terms of his knowledge of sanitation on SKB and the mop closet on Snoke's ship.
     
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  8. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    In my point of view:

    On his first mission, he made a choice. He would not kill innocent people for the First Order.

    While this makes Finn a 100% clean stormtrooper (he never killed anyone), this also means his CV is more or less empty of major accomplishments :)

    He completed basic training, did some menial tasks, and so far we are not yet sure if he did work in some administrative or tech areas inside SKB or FO destroyers.

    Of course I am also thankful that this sanitation stuff is already over by the end of TLJ, and I hope this will not return.

    Given the alternative version of Finn vs Phasma revealed today which will be included into the TLJ bluray, I am almost sure he will lead the stormtroopers to rebel against the FO in IX.
     
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  9. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Call it air force one and a nuclear missile silo then. Either way they are high value, top secret locations that would require massive vetting to gain access to.

    Idk how familiar you are with the military but soldiers in training are definitely not trusted with mopping sensitive areas, nor the presidents mode of transportation.

    They are given menial tasks like weeding the flower beds in the training area, mowing grass and mopping common areas/shower facilities.
     
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  10. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    They're already not solely referencing them in that way. For example, he knew that Stormtrooper masks filter smoke but not toxins. That's not a mop related piece of knowledge. Also, for every sanitation reference I'm sure there are 2 or 3 instances where Rey is denigrated as a lowly "scavenger".
     
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  11. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    You're right! All of the POC who have told you that they are not remotely satisfied with how Finn "represents" them should probably just shut up and be satisfied.
     
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  12. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    No one should have to shut up. I certainly haven't suggested that! People can be as unsatisfied as they like.
    So do those floors just stay dirty? Who mops them, super high level VIP janitors? I can imagine the FO trusting a brain-washed trainee soldier more.
     
  13. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 18, 2015
    If I recall correctly, Finn is a top 1% graduated stormtrooper (I read this somewhere in this thread I guess)

    So while he had no real world combat experience, if he was a top graduate, then I guess this gave him access to mop these sensitive areas.
     
  14. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    In real life.. Soldiers in basic training are NO WHERE NEAR top secret facilities...and yes in essence "VIP janitors" mop these areas or as i stated before robot mopping/vacuuming machines clean these areas.

    I cant imagine the FO training new soldiers on their top secret weapon system or the supreme leaders personal vessel.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  15. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 18, 2015
    A background check is required for real world security clearance.

    Given that Finn and his background are fully known by the First Order (he was raised and brainwashed by them since he was a child), and he is a top 1% graduated trooper with no insubordinations, it is not unfeasible to assume he had such security clearance.

    Additionally, his security clearance would be for site access, not top secret document reading. Not that this changes anything, but there is a difference.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  16. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    You're really going to complain about the FO using personnel that they've conditioned from birth within sensitive areas?
     
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  17. zackm

    zackm Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 22, 2015
    What?? No. No. No. Those are even worse comparisons. MILLIONS of people were stationed at SKB and on the Supremacy. There is nothing exceptional at all about Finn having spent time at both locations. They were the primary hubs for FO personnel. It would actually be significantly stranger if someone who had put in 20 years with the First Order had never spent any time on either.
     
  18. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    Sorry, this issue was whether he was a janitor.



    He was Phasma’s top guy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  19. BLemelisk

    BLemelisk Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Is that something I'm supposed to know from X comic or novel?
     
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  20. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Doesn’t matter. It’s canon.

    And it not being mentioned in the film doesn’t make it a plot hole. It isn’t important.

    Big Deal could be just talking. He’s done it before in TFA. And he doesn’t want to get in trouble for attempting desertion. So he could say that to get Rose to trust him.

    Finally, it’d be unreasonable to think Ren and Phasma wouldn’t have used the most elite of the Stormtroopers for such an important mission. His mopping the floors of high security areas isn’t impossible. He does some to know his way around.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  21. Oryx-I

    Oryx-I Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    In an organisation as powerfull and wealthy as the First order, no human should have to mop anything to begin with. There's this thing in Star wars called droids that are perfect for such mundane tasks. I could barely keep my suspension of disbelief in TFA when Finn said he worked in sanitation because I assumed he just ordered around some droids and pushed buttons most of the time, but Rian Johnson's version of this only highlights how badly he understands the Star wars universe.

    Ironically, in the infamous laundry scene with the uniforms being ironed, there were no human workers to be seen. Only machines... [face_frustrated]
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  22. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Finn was not a General. He was a recently graduated stormtrooper. His first mission was on the beginning of TFA. Before his first mission, he did menial tasks, as every single new recruit does in the army.
     
  23. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Solely from the information given in the movies it's never said or shown that Finn was a high value storm trooper. He literally is described as a janitor and tells han he was a sanitations worker....Special forces troops would never describe themselves as such.

    I thought movies always trump comics and novels when it comes to canon? TFA = Finn a sanitations worker.trumps whatever a novel/comic says.
     
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  24. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 25, 2015
    obviously i meant achtoo. The fact that rey was skyping with her boyfriend confirms that rey is on the same time table as the rebels. Since her boyfriend is on the ship thats trying to destroy the rebels while he's flexing for rey, she should've left achtoo a lot earlier. She didn't. She was there a full 24+ hours after the 18 hour deadline is set.
     
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  25. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    If we're going to nitpick time & travel we'll find "plot-holes" all throughout the Saga. Like Palpatine sensing Anakin's predicament on Mustafar while he was fighting Obi-Wan. Palps then leaves his office, goes to his ship, takes off, leaves Coruscant, enters hyperspace to travel across the galaxy, emerges in the Mustafar system, approaches the planet, lands, gets out of his ship, & eventually finds Anakin. During all of that we're expected to believe that Anakin was laying there burning alive, & was not a pile of ash by the time Palpatine completed his journey. Like I said though, to criticise that sort of thing is just nitpicking.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018