ST Yoda in Episode VIII

I mean, it could have been. I'm not saying that it wasn't. But the way I look at it, Yoda was mostly suggesting her redeeming qualities and strong connection to the force while also, possibly, having some fun about the books.

I don't put much stock in those books at all - I think they're mostly meant to symbolize passing the Jedi torch to a new generation. I don't think there's going to be a scene in IX with Rey studiously peering into the books.

Regardless, the scene was not about the books. It was about the lesson that Yoda was trying to convey to Luke.

 

Well actually I can posit, suggest or make a guess about anything I want SW related on the boards, because this is why they exist. But thanks for the funny aside.

Based on what JJ did with TFA it can be easily presumed that he'd have never had Luke reluctant to train Rey or act like a Jedi Master for 90% of the movie. To not embrace that conclusion is to ignore TFA and Abrams' approach to storytelling.

Is it that hard to make Luke a mentor in the ST? He didn't have to be all powerful or have all the answers, but he could have been more true to his character and a mentor figure like Qui-Gon in TPM and Obi-Wan in ANH who's knowledge and actions support the main protagonist rather than detracting from the main protagonist. It's like Johnson felt pressure to give Luke this big role and a large arc when that is ill-fitting because this isn't his story anymore. TFA literally passed the baton to Rey when the saber called her via a vision and she made it fly into her hand. This isn't Luke's story anymore so why does so much of TLJ drag us through Luke's depression and all of his baggage? ESB doesn't focus on Yoda and his failure to train Jedi effectively or to stop Vader years prior, because that would have sidetracked Luke's hero journey. No, Yoda is there to serve Luke's growth in ESB, and that makes it a much more compelling story while also making Yoda likable. Why SW fans who profess a love for ESB and the OT fail to understand this is bizarre.

Johnson's failure with TLJ is not a "boo hoo Luke is grumpy in this movie," it is deeper than that, it is his script failure of not handling the Mentor/Hero relationship and arc well, which affects pace, run-time, Rey's character development and motivations and hero's journey, the whole focus of the movie....so much!

 

On the big screen, I wasn't really sold on how Yoda appeared. Looking at him on digital, he looks fantastic. The creature shop guys really did great work sculpting him from TESB mold. It was also great seeing Frank Oz at work in the behind the scenes documentary.

 

I know that everyone who works on these new films has talked about how surreal the experience was, but watching Frank Oz perform Yoda had to have been off the charts.

 

Rey does receive lessons from Luke that help her cope later on. The movie shows how ultimately pupils surpass their teachers. Luke was told that like with Vader, the darkside will dominate your destiny for ever. But when Luke found out that Vader was his father, Luke has foresight to refuse to accept Yoda's teaching in that area and believed instead that his father wasn't forever consumed.

Training scenes are sometimes compelling because they show us things we might not have seen before. Luke left in the middle of training against Yoda's wishes and was defeated then narrowly escaped. The next time he sees him Yoda tells Luke that he needn't continue with his training. So, for Yoda, there was no compelling reason to continue training Luke even though he had "failed" at cloud city. Because the point was that Luke hadn't been turned by Vader, and that he was going to learn how fulfil his destiny it was going to be due to his own insight, not through any further lessons that Yoda could give him.

 

Fantastic scene! So nostalgic...

 

I loved Yoda's impish persona returning. And how appropriate it is since Yoda knows something that Luke has yet to learn. Like in their first meeting.

 

It felt so consistent with his Classic Trilogy persona. They nailed it.

 

Yes. But, without undue imbalance in favour of the OT, the impish persona was visited in the PT. Under different circumstances.

 

Could somene tell me why Yoda acts wako again like he did in TESB?
In Empire Yoda’s act was an affectation wasn’t it? A means of testing Luke’s perceptions of what a Jedi should or could be. It also was a way of testing Luke’s character.

What was the point in TLJ?

 

It's explained in the two post previous to yours.

And he also had it when he was mocking Obi-Wan in front of the younglings in AOTC.

The point is that Yoda's demeanour can be whatever he wants whenever he wants.

 

Yoda has always been a bit mischievous.

 

It’s not just funny but it shows his intelligence.

 

Yoda lights a tree on fire and laughs maniacally like a pyromaniac. This is not Yoda, to me. He's mischievous, he has a sense of humor, but it's not this.

 

In TFA we have 'Rey, these are your first steps'. Its a callback to 'you have taken your first step into a larger world'

Obi-Wan described the force earlier in the same scene:

BEN
Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force
flowing through him.

LUKE
You mean it controls your actions?

BEN
Partially. But it also obeys your
commands.

In Rey's vision, she receives the force ('controls your actions') and then, from her little self 'no!' on projects herself into it ('obeys' your commands) Of course, 'obeys her commands' is meant at a subliminal level, since she is not a force user yet. In any case, she goes from passive to active.

Is that control/obey dynamic what makes the downloading of force skills from Ben/Kylo possible. The nature of her mind-duel with Kylo in the interrogation scene is that of a counterattack (during their mental fight, the little Rey 'no!' scream is heard several times, at several speeds) The same goes for their final duel (and the same goes, at an even more subliminal level, in the awakening Snoke sensed after the MF scene in Jakku).

Its 'show, dont tell'. But what about Yoda? I think it could involve not only Rey, but others. The crucial line would be 'luminous beings are we, not this crude matter'.

But he touches Luke with his stick and is able to interfere with the physical world. Thats unprecedented in these films.

Later, Leia and ghost Luke are able to touch each other. Ben/Kylo holds the ghost dice. Before, Ben/Kylo and Rey had touched hands while being mindbridged, and Ben/Kylo is made visible to Luke.

I think we are being told that, just as force ghosts can become crude matter for a time, under certain conditions two physically distant crude matter bodies , and not only their minds, could luminously move through the force, disappearing in a given time or place in order to appear in another.

Thats what Yoda himself does in TLJ. He appears, interacts physically (lightning), and then reappears before the burning tree. Then he interacts again physically with Luke. Show, dont tell.

The significance of this goes, I think, beyond TLJ. In that film we arrived to the mindbridge and force projection via pay-off, only to be thrown immediately forward, the pay-off being in itself a prerequisite, force-wise, for whetever setups we get to see in IX.

A crude matter body (Snoke/Luke) linked Rey and Ben/Kylo minds in TLJ. What kind of link would correspond to a luminous being? Anakin's force ghost hasnt appeared yet.