A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

I said I was sorry. There is no "deathmatch". Again, I said I was sorry and you as a poster was not even mentioned in my post. Just Luke, and the writing of 8.

 

Where TLJ discussion is concerned, it's always a deathmatch. Not one I'd be participating in, but that does look to be the way of it. Good luck.

 

of note: in the commentary track, Johnson points out (I'm paraphrasing slightly) that while the PT was about Anakin and OT was about Luke, the ST is really about two protagonists, Rey and Kylo who are sort of flip images of each other. Kylo does go full antagonist by the end of TLJ anyway, though. But when it comes to baddies in Star Wars, we're certainly getting more of his perspective (and screentime) than, say, Vader in the OT or Paplatine in the PT. One could argue that Anakin's POV in the PT does make it entirely from the bad guy's perspective but he flips about halfway through the 3rd movie, Kylo has been bad since he first showed up but still gets a lot of time devoted to him, moreso than most baddies.

 

Yeah -- and even though I still don't entirely understand why Kylo went bad, I sympathize with him more than Anakin. I think that's a combo of the amount of screentime/POV, and the fact that Adam Driver steals a scene every time. You can actually feel some of Kylo's wrath during his tantrums. You can't get that same feeling with Anakin (except the scene with Shmi and the tusken part -- that was ok; in ROTS he sounded like he was reading the script for the first time).

 

The only thing that I'm really arguing about is the absurd idea that some people have that Rey has definitively defeated her dark side demons because she rejected a pathetic attempt to turn her (if you can even call it that) and having known the force for a week or 2.

When the other example of someone turning to the Dark Side we have in canon (Anakin Skywalker) required over a decade of manipulation by one of the most cunning and devious beings in galactic history to achieve, thinking that Rey is somehow past that risk after a week of knowing what the force is and no one actually making a convincing effort to turn her is incomprehensible with common sense.

 

This strikes me as a pretty apt description of most criticism towards TLJ I've seen, honestly.

 

As the stakes get higher, the tone gets darker. 13 dwarves with no plan isn't going to work against Sauron. That's why it became a story where Frodo sacrificed his physical and mental well being to stop him, and God literally had to heal him (sail to west).

That doesn't mean we turn off the hobbit halfway through. But 8 feels like 13 dwarves with no plan (Rey, broomboy, bungling finn and poe) against sauron. The ending emphasizes the flashiness of being a Jedi without quiet planning and deliberation. Rey rushes off. Finn and poe rush off. Etc.

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Well, now we’ve gone from A New Hope binary sunset and somehow switched into The Hobbit and ends with Frodo in Return of the King.

I think they’re to many movies in this comparison.

 

People make a lot of mistakes in Last Jedi but that is a legit thematic point. Arguably the most important correct choices is Rey rejecting Kylo, Poe realizing that they have to survive, Finn embracing his "Rebel scum" and Luke showing up on Crait at the end. Since it's the climax of the film at all that's okay.

 

No one is ever completely free of their dark side... as Luke himself learned with his instinctual reaction to Kylo's dark dreams.

As long as you live, it has to be an active and continual decision to reject the dark side. Recognize it in yourself, accept it's part of you, and reject allowing it to have any influence over your decisions.

 

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Sometimes i wonder if anyone watched and paid attention to the Yoda arc of TCW.

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Yeah, I think this is something that was misunderstood by some of the Jedi, especially the Old Republic Jedi, and some people on this site. I don't think Lucas ever intended people to reach full light side/Jedi status and then they're safe, like it's a goal in a video game (you have unlocked Jedi status! Congratulations!). It's something you have to keep at as long as you're alive -- that's even in the Buddhist beliefs that Lucas was taking from. Monks are on a path to Enlightenment; they're not there yet.

Same with the dark side -- just because you've fallen, doesn't necessarily mean you can't get back up.

In the case of Rey and Kylo, they're still fairly untrained pupils. Rey is at least trying to find her path. She's aware she has faults. Kylo... I think he has galactic domination and revenge on the mind. He's too preoccupied. I'm curious what his plan is going to be for Ep XI, because he's so used to following other people's orders.

 

I think they may have left themselves too much to do in 9. The characters didn't really progress as much as you'd think by the end of 8 and a lot is going to have to happen in the final film to reach a satisfactory conclusion regarding both the characters and factions/state of the galaxy IMO. This is partly due to 7 and 8 all happening in close proximity, chronologically, and the only way I can see them achieving said satisfactory conclusion in 9 is for it to be set a long time after 8, with Rey & Kylo having developed a lot off screen in the meantime.

 

They may do what happened between 2 and 3. Basically a galaxy spanning war after 8 that lasts for years with the conclusion in 9. Then they'll fill in that war later with an animated series, like they did for the Clone Wars. Leia can be killed during this war.

Opening of 9:

Poe: Get help. You're no match for him, he's a Supreme Leader.
Finn: [turns and smiles] Poe, Supreme Leaders are our speciality.
Kylo: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things.
Finn: You won't get away this time, Kylo.
Kylo: I've been looking forward to this.
Rey: My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Kylo.
Kylo: Good. Twice the pride, double the fall.

The tv show between 8 and 9 will have Rey and Kylo dueling every week, continually retconning when "the last time" they met was.

 

Haha gold. One of the many stupid things about TCW

 

Yes... I do get the sneaking suspicion that they're intentionally rushing the events of this trilogy to leave room for another. Unless Ep IX starts several years after TLJ, Rey is not nearly a Jedi yet. Like Obi-Wan said, she's still on her first steps.

 

watching Last Jedi on May the 4th (still an hour to go when I started!) and using the DVD that came with the Wal Mart exclusive blu ray combo pack to watch it outside of my home, thanks bundled DVD that I only use!

Anyway, at the start when Poe points out "Hugs" mother, I always kinda flashback to Armitage's family origins that were revealed in Aftermath. No wonder Hux immediately orders to fire on Poe, his mother is a sore spot. Also I will admit, it took me multiple viewings to figure out that Poe was saying "Hugs" the entire time :/

 

I don't think Rey ever forgives Kylo for his actions, a huge part is that she's seeing in the Force of him turn and "this could be how we win". They're both using each other. Probably the closest she comes to an emotional connection is after her dark side cave experience and Luke constantly berating her is admitting "I never felt so alone" and Kylo saying "You're not alone". Then they touch fingers and she sees the bright, shiny, Ben Good future so all of her actions from that point on is just trying to go along with the vision to make him turn.

 

from https://marcel-mercado.deviantart.com/
"These pages are done for fun, they're not part of any official star wars project. First of, I liked Last Jedi. I read an interview where Mark Hamill was frustrated at his character's take on the movie, and it prompted me to create this comic. Mark's frustration would've been a better driving motivation for Luke. The sense that Luke felt his destiny tarnished, where he questioned what good he had done. If this was to be the last Jedi, then the moment needed to be epic."

 

WOW, that's really touching! And the art is amazing too!

Also, maybe I'm looking way too much into this, but I wonder if the resemblance with Kai Hudorra is intentional?

 

Oh that is absolutely stuning

 

Kylo would need to seriously improve his duelling skills if he wants to survive another fight with Rey. She trounced him in their first brawl.

 

And tied in their second.

I don't think their fight will be the final fight of IX, or even the big fight of IX.

Maybe something with the Knights will be the Big Fight... and then Finn simply kills Kylo with a blaster when Rey wavers.

 

I don't consider it a tie when one party is able to get up before the other. If Rey hadn't been in a merciful state of mind, she could have picked up Kylo's weapon while he was unconscious and executed him before he woke up.