A/V The EPISODE IX - Rise of Skywalker - Thread - Untagged Spoilers Allowed!

At the end of the day as I will always believe general audiences matter more in the grand equation of this franchise then the good folk on Twitter/Facebook/ or even this form. It's that way with pretty much every franchise.

Heck look at Transformers films, fans hated those yet they made millions because general audiences went to see them.....they are only now just changing things because general audiences are getting tired of it.

Also I'm starting to think that Lucasfilm wouldn't have won either way, I really don't think with a film there is a way to please everyone and also....why? Who cares if you please everyone, just make your story and hope it does well and if it does, keep moving forward.

 

Well, they did just include a scene in the climax of thier latest blockbuster that doesn't make any sense unless you've watched several seasons worth of cartoons and read a specific comic.

So, that makes me inclined to believe that it was allways more about allowing maximum creative freedom for the new filmmakers than a fear of alienating the general audience.

 

True-Although that could also cause fan polarization ala The Last Jedi because RJ had Max creative freedom there too....I mean minus him having to continue were 7 left off.

 

That too, but the difference there of course is that they're giving something back instead of taking it away. It's also at the end of the movie. It's a lot easier to say after the movie "Wanna know why he's back? Check out Netflix!" than it is to deal with the distraction of Chewie's ignominious death from the very first frame, then tell that person "Oh, that happened in a novel from 1999 if you want to experience it."

 

No. I don’t buy that. Chewbacca’s death is not a game changer. He doesn’t even speak Basic. They had no problem killing Han in The Force Awakens. No. They just didn’t want to have to explain to everyone all the events of the old EU. They felt everyone would get confused and they already killed off both Han and Leia’s sons. They had one kid left by 45 BBY. Then Jaina would turn to the dark side? It just feels redundant. Also EU Luke would never abandon the galaxy. They had to restructure it. Make Luke different. Have the nephew wreck his Order and make Luke go crying all the way to Ach whatever.

 

Chewie could easily have been found alive post-EU, they never found a body. This can be explained in some prose work that no one reads (Chewie was captured, abandoned and forgotten on a Vong prison world), and the movies don't even have to act like he was ever gone. Jaina going dark and killing Luke's son Ben Skywalker could indeed be the final straw that sends Luke running.

I posted this in another thread, but basically my own ST would have been: In 44 ABY after Chewie is found alive, Jaina as Kira Ren would kill Ben Skywalker as her first step to the Dark Side, and Luke disbanding the Jedi and going to hiding in grief could have given us the same ST we are getting now.

My ST would take place in 44 ABY to match actor ages of Carrie, Harrison and Mark (who were already older than their characters in the OT). Obviously Legacy would be decanonized.

The 44 ABY year fixes a lot of problems--Mara Jade is gone, Jacen and Anakin are gone. They don't need to be seen and can have passing mentions that don't matter to the general audience. (Han: After the fall of the Empire, Luke rebuilt the Jedi and made changes allowing marriage and families. He was raising his son Ben alone after his wife died, until his greatest student Kira Ren killed Ben and joined the First Order. Then Luke disbanded the Jedi and walked away from everything.)

With a line that Jaina killed Luke's son and fell to the Dark Side and Luke disbanded the Jedi in grief, we once again get a lone Luke without an Order per George's treatments. Obviously Jag would have left Jaina after she turned evil, but Jag doesn't even need to be mentioned in 7.

Jaina can make a passing reference on killing her twin who went mad because being a Jedi was too much for him, and her younger brother being killed in the Vong Wars (no one explained what the Clone Wars were back in 1977, so a reference to the Vong Wars for the general audience would be fine). After what happened to her brothers she realizes being a Jedi is a thankless life and hates Luke and the entire Order (more motivation than what we're getting for Kylo now honestly)--provides context for her falling to the Dark Side, but nothing the audience needs to go back and read. (Kira Ren: After my brothers were killed as a result of trying to follow the Jedi way, I realized the galaxy needed order and to be cleansed of the Jedi delusion. I stand with Snoke and the First Order in fulfilling this duty).

Basically it can all be recapped as: In 44 ABY after Chewie is found alive, Jaina as Kira Ren would kill Ben Skywalker as her first step to the Dark Side, and Luke disbanding the Jedi and going to hiding in grief could have given us the same ST we are getting now.

A dark Jaina as a reminder of who Rey could be would mirror the dynamic between Vader and Luke in the OT, instead of the frankly disturbing Reylo vibes we are getting in the current ST.

I would envision Merlin actress Katie McGrath as dark Jaina and she expressed interest in SW back in the day: http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/st...n-katie-mcgrath-wants-star-wars-bad-guy-role/ , but alas it never happened.

Oh, and why did Jaina turn evil? In 8 it would have been revealed that Jaina, her husband Jag, Ben, and Luke accidentally found Darth Plagueis' lost Sith Temple and learned how to drain the life of a healthy Force-sensitive to regenerate cells in a dying person. After Jag is fatally injured in a Sith trap, Jaina drains Ben Skywalker to heal Jag, who denounces her as a murderer. Rather than imprison Jaina for life even after she killed his son, Luke lets Jaina go and she runs off to join Snoke and the FO. Luke would run to the First Temple and disband the Jedi not to mope, but because he knows the Jedi have no defense against this life draining power and he needs to research a defense.

Done right, the general audience would have appreciated this complex and in-depth story that doesn't require deep EU knowledge because the ST dialogue would recap what the general audience needed to know.

 

Yeah, I literally just said he was misusing Leland's words.



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Very creative. They should have hired you instead of JJ Abrams.

 

Hey, Chewie's been used really well in Force Awakens and Last Jedi. Just him and the Porg scenes is worth it!

Now the real question is, how are we getting our Chewie fix after Episode IX if they don't make another young Solo-centric film? I've been spoiled with years of Chewie, they can't just cut me off like that, I'll go into shock.

 

Time for Chewbacca: A Star Wars Story.

 

I thought we already had that one. It's called the Holiday Special.

 

There was even a Journey to the Force Awakens: The Holiday Special!

 

Sorry. I didnt see the previous page of the thread

 

Don’t get me wrong. I LOVE Chewie. I loved him in Solo and I love that he was the only true friend Han could trust. I just think saying his death was a cop-out. Rebooting canon is A LOT easier than sorting through it and picking stuff. In the end, I think it was for the best. I loved the EU’s rich tapestry of stories but being OCD, I much prefer a cohesive, organized canon even if the new stuff doesn’t always make me happy.

 

I feel like the Sequel Trilogy Holiday Special would have at least one scene communicated entirely in unsubtitled Porg-speak.

 

The canon was rebooted because of IG-88 being the second Death Star.

They saw how stupid that was and so they threw everything out.

 

That has nothing on Dr cylo and his clone bodies

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I sort of feel R2 didn't get enough screen time to bond with Luke in TLJ. There was that one great ANH reference with Leia's hologram, but he sat out the rest of the film. Re-watching the OT, R2 (and 3PO) is constantly doing something significant every few scenes, even if it's something small to just move the plot along like freeing them from the Ewok net or opening/closing a door to help/hinder heroes/villains. Now he just sort of seems to be along for the ride.

The idea of R2's "death" would always seem wrong and I would never advocate it, but if they were to do it, he would need a much stronger ST character arc to back it up. Otherwise it would just be for the emotional factor, and that's not good reason enough on its own.

 

The general audience would never have understood anything of the old EU if they kept it and attempted to make a film based in the era after LOTF. 40+ years of In-Universe history would've stretched it out to a 5-10 hour movie just so the general audience can have an idea of what happened in the years. I doubt they'd go out and spend thousands on finding these books to read and understand.

Also, the sequels couldn't be any of the trilogy books like Thrawn, Corellia or Dark Nest (shiver). One book would be 3 films themselves.

Besides, the NJO onwards to me so too dark and not really the Star Wars a general audience would enjoy.

Heck, anything between X-wing: Isard's Revenge and the Specter of the Past (10 years worth of in-universe stories) makes you feel off about Luke, Han and Leia (as well as Chewie, Lando and the droids) when you think about it. Dark Empire was written before the Prequels and doesn't fit well anymore (and the art makes me cringe) and Luke's stupidity (which I'm sure has been discussed before elsewhere) in thinking he could cheat the Dark Side when ROTJ made it clear he rejected the whole turning point within himself.

Though arguably in the early-Canon, I would've preferred it if the Galactic Civil War hadn't ended in a year and allowed better story development to lead to the First Order's rise but hey, I just want a full calendar timeline with dates returned because then I can wrap my head around the wonky timeline of the Aftermath trilogy and Battlefront II making it appear the war ended in six months or less rather then a year.

 

And that's nostalgic emotions, not ones built up by the movie

 

Oh yes, it does.

 

Many of the things in that arc did not make sense though. For example, I don't recall there being any explanation on how Vader overcame Cylo 5's (or 6's, I honestly forgot which number) deactivation of his suit. There was a near death experience about the power of hate and Vader was suddenly ok again. This would be equivalent to Vader suddenly getting himself together without his suit power in ROTJ's ending.

Leia's behavior in Marvel comics, as well as Han's gambling with the Rebellion's money also left me shaking my head. Leia also became bloodthirsty against Vader over saving Luke in Vader Down, which is NOT in character with her per the OT (see where she pleads with Luke to RUN from Endor instead of facing Vader). While the IG-88 bit is regrettable, there were core heroic traits in our heroes that were outright erased in new canon, which I find sad.

Leia's change in particular is similar to the change from the calculating, methodical Batman of the DCAU cartoons to the thoughtless brute portrayed in the film Batman v Superman. They are different characters with just a few incidents (the OT movies for Leia and Batman's parents being killed for Batman) in common.

 

In Darth Vader #23, Cylo-V presses a button on a remote to deactivate Vader's cybernetics. In #24, Vader moves himself with the Force and kills Cylo-V, who drops the remote. We see the button being pressed again -- indicated by the same KLLK! sound effect used when it was pressed in #23 -- reactivating Vader's cybernetics. I think it's safe to infer Vader uses the Force to press the button. Relevant panels attached:

Spoiler

#23:


#24:

 

oh ok thanks, i missed the context of that panel.