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PT Thoughts about Jedi rapport/relationships with other citizens, fellow Jedi?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by DarthTalonx, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    A Jedi's role in the galaxy

    At the height of their power, and guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy, with powers that many did not understand, though having an "official" role in the galaxy, how would the Jedi be perceived when interacting with galactic citizens? Especially given their apparent patronage by the Republic (starships, the Jedi Temple etc). Can the Jedi police the galaxy (Deathsticks) according to their own will versus being apathetic and merely observing whilst the Republic doesn't act?

    Friendships with outsiders

    What of their relationships and interactions with others? For instance we see examples where Obi Wan is friends with Dex, that Yoda has good relations with the Wookies, and instances where the Naboo recognise who the Jedi are. So Jedi have friends?

    The perceptions of the Jedi

    There are also humorous moments where Watto for instance says to Qui Gon does he think he's some sort to Jedi waving his hands around, and that golden moment in AOTC with Obi Wan telling a citizen, "You don't want to sell me Death Sticks...You're going to go home and rethink your life!"

    Citizens flirting with Jedi, or vice versa


    We also see up a few citizens in that nightclub eye up Anakin. We see Anakin himself talk to Qui Gon about the Jedi as being mythical legends (having been raised in the Outer Rim). We see Anakin tell Padme that he is a Jedi, he's better than this (after the Tusken interaction). And also Anakin's discussion with Padme on the transport ship about a Jedi's "compassion and encouragement to love." Then their fireplace and Arena scenes with the Across the Stars theme in the background. However this coupled with the Jedi are forbidden from attachment and that he would be expelled from the Jedi Order, as Obi Wan puts it, if he allows his personal feelings to get in the way of the job at hand on Geonosis.

    So do citizens find Jedi attractive? How do the Jedi respond to this? For instance, if Yoda walks into a bar, and the women start crowding around him. Or during the Clone Wars, and Jedi Master Shaak Ti, or Adia Gallia, or Aayla Secura are posted to a planet and interact with citizens who happen to flirt with them?

    Jedi family, intimacy with others, or relationships/rapport

    What about the Jedi relationships with each other? We know that Obi Wan and Anakin become brothers, and best friends. That Mace and Yoda are close friends (and Yoda is almost like a grandfather to all the Jedi).

    How does this play out when it comes to chemistry and attraction between Jedi? We are told that the Jedi mustn't be attached to people or possessions. We see in a way, Anakin refuse to leave Obi Wan behind in ROTS' opening. What about the relationship between Jedi Knights with each other if attraction were involved. Or a Master and Padawan? I remember reading here if a young Jedi Knight had become Padawan to Aayla Secura, how would he control his feelings! What would that interaction be like?

    Jedi possessions

    Do the Jedi actually own their star fighters, droids etc? Can the Jedi give each other gifts? What if Jedi become too "friendly," or flirty with each other?
     
  2. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2014
    Any thoughts on this? I find it hilarious the idea of a young Padawan being apprenticed to Aayla Secura for instance!

    But the notion of Jedi friendships, or even Jedi interacting with "ordinary citizens" whilst on their regular missions/keeping the peace in the galaxy as fascinating.
     
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  3. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2014
  4. cubman987

    cubman987 Friendly Neighborhood Saga/Music/Fun & Games Mod star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 7, 2014
    @DarthTalonx Please stop "bumping" the thread - if anyone wants to respond to this thread they will.
     
  5. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2014
    Roger roger. :emperor: I shall simply watch this thread's career with great interest.
     
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  6. Voss Fulris

    Voss Fulris Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Interesting post, @DarthTalonx! I was waiting for someone far more qualified than me to reply and I haven't had a chance to do significant research, but in the meantime, my initial thoughts:

    A Jedi's role in the galaxy: How would they be perceived? I think this depends on the time-period we are considering, but given this is a PT thread I presume I should focus on that. My feeling is that the Jedi were neither seen as police, nor apathetic bystanders. The 'deathstick' incident felt more like an instance of seeing an opportunity to help the vendor 'rethink his life' rather than taking an enforcement approach that a 'Jedi police' would take. In this context, I would not expect an 'ordinary citizen' to fear the Jedi from a law and order perspective. Concerning standing by and failing to act, is there a specific incident you are referring to? In the PT era, to me the Jedi seemed far from passive, and arguably their involvement in the war played a crucial role in allowing Sidious to rise. Given their patronage by the Republic, and their role in the war, I expect the Jedi would be perceived as a military organisation by the citizens.

    Friendships with outsiders: So Jedi have friends? You've given a few examples of Jedi having friends and I see no reason why this would be an issue. The Jedi teach of the dangers of attachment, but also emphasise the value of compassion. I think friendships fall within this. The Jedi are mortal beings like any other, who happen to have a certain set of values and be Force sensitive. I expect they need and value friendship like any other. Regarding friends outside of the Order, I would expect this to be rarer during the PT era due to the militarisation of the Jedi.

    The perceptions of the Jedi: Perhaps in places where it is rare to meet a Jedi, they could be viewed either with a degree of scepticism or awe. Able to achieve feats not possible for non-Jedi, it would seem natural for rumours to be either exaggerated to make the Jedi into supernatural beings, or viewed as great exaggerations.

    Citizens flirting with Jedi, or vice versa: It would not surprise me for some citizens to flirt with Jedi, and you have given a few examples of this. Concerning if citizens find Jedi attractive, I think I would not agree with a blanket statement like this, but in principle do not object. To a non-Jedi, the Jedi may seem to wield power, and many may find power attractive. I'm not sure how a Jedi would respond to this, but I'm also not sure the non-attachment principles you raise would prevent a Jedi from reciprocating if they wanted to and it was appropriate.

    Jedi family, intimacy with others, or relationships/rapport: Relationships of this nature seem to be strongly discouraged from what we see in the PT. We see some of the damaging consequences of this in Anakin. Personally I do not interpret of the Jedi Code to forbid such relationships. However, I think that Jedi are mindful that the attachment and fear of loss that can come with such relationships can compromise their other values. In TCW we learn that Obi-wan has had a previous relationship of this nature, and would have left the Order for this relationship. This shows that Jedi can have relationships with non-Jedi without compromising Jedi values, but at the time this was not a widely held view within the Order and so would have required him to leave.

    Jedi possessions: I always assumed that a Jedi owns little more than their robes and lightsaber. However, this leaves the question of how the Order is funded. Clearly during the PT they receive significant support from the Republic, but it seems necessary for there to be other sources of funding too. Again, I'm not sure the Code prevents them from owning possessions, so long as they do not feel attachment to them, so potentially they could own other things too.

    These are just my initial thoughts on the issues you've raised, I'd be interested to look things up in a bit more detail and also hear thoughts of others who know more about this!
     
  7. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    Thanks for including me in your question. I have to admit that I have not watched TCW besides the odd episode or two. So I'm not that qualified on the topic. I will try to give an opinion and answer to your questions based on what I have seen - basically only the movies - and add some of my thoughts. The Jedi and their code are a complex subject, and to be honest I haven't given it all that much thought.
     
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  8. Snafu55

    Snafu55 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2015
    I really do wonder how they fund the Jedi order with all their advanced systems, temples, ships, and technology (pre clone wars)?
     
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  9. Justin Gensel

    Justin Gensel Jedi Master star 2

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    Jun 11, 2018
    They operated as a branch of the Republic's Judicial Department and were granted funding to be able to act as its operatives.
     
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  10. Snafu55

    Snafu55 Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 19, 2015
    oh where did you hear that? because often they lead groups of Judicials on special assignments
     
  11. Justin Gensel

    Justin Gensel Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2018
    I believe Jedi can be demonstrated to be not very different from any other form of sentient life in the Galaxy. Through the small lens we are given, we see that they can form friendships, are just as capable of romantic/sexual entanglements as the next person and certainly have their knick knacks and baubles like any other person accumulates in a lifetime.

    On the subject of attractiveness, I think it's safe to assume a Jedi who is appealing physically as a person is no more or less ensured to have success with whatever romantic partner they are inclined towards. There may be an additional level of 'mystique' at first, but with time, that would likely pass and the Jedi would have to succeed at relationships based on their merits as a partner like any other person.

    As previously stated, Jedi and their ability to form close relationships has been an object of contention for a lot of fans for a long time. The best example is probably Ki-Adi-Mundi. A venerated Jedi Master who was both a member of the High Council and a leading figure of the Clone War. At the same time, he was also a father. His planet suffered from extremely low birthrates and so, with the Council's blessing, he was allowed to engage in relation with a number of wives and had 15 kids! Aside from being a bit of a stud, Ki-Adi was also allowed sabbaticals to go back home and check on his children when events allowed. However, these wives and kids also had another understanding. Their dad did what he did to help his planet and people. And he certainly cared about them greatly to try and keep them in his life. But for Ki-Adi, it was always clear the Jedi Order and its mission was priority one in his life. Not an easy reality to come to grips with, but I like to think he was man enough to make that clear when forming such intense relationships. The major sticking point with being a Jedi Knight, was the agreement that if you wanted to stay in the Order and enjoy the privileges and responsibilities that came with it, then you were expected to commit 100%. Just like any other member. If you couldn't do that, it was up to you to tend your resignation and leave peacefully. And honestly, that's not asking too much. If you want to be a parent, just like in real life, it requires a changing of priorities. Whatever else once took primacy in your life, now family is #1. I think the Jedi understood that perfectly well and were cool with it. It also lines up with their philosophy when you think about it. Letting go might not necessarily be just about letting go of outside life to be a Jedi, but recognizing as well when it was time to leave the Jedi Order behind when you couldn't be what it required you to be. You could still embrace the Force and be a good person, just not in as perhaps direct a role as before. Even with a new, more lenient Order, I think the main discussion has to be that the Jedi Order is going to be a difficult taskmaster. It will NOT be an easy life. And finding a partner that can understand that is ALWAYS going to be difficult.
     
  12. Justin Gensel

    Justin Gensel Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2018
    From Wookieepedia:

    "After the Ruusan Reformation the department was drastically reorganized and its responsibility were expanded. Notably, the Judicial Department was placed in charge of supervising the Jedi Order. "

    "It was after these events that the Galactic Republic was formed and ushered in a new era of democracy, peace, and prosperity under the Galactic Senate and its elected leader, the Supreme Chancellor. Due to the Galactic Republic's demilitarization, the Jedi Order fully embraced their responsibilities as peacekeepers and rejected their roles as soldiers. Assisted by the Republic Judicials, the Jedi were responsible for maintaining law and order, namely by mediating conflicts to bring about peaceful solutions between various rival factions and planets,[29] as well as serving as interplanetary law enforcement by pursuing wanted and dangerous criminals, pirates, and smugglers. "
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  13. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 10, 2017
    The Jedi were the actual minds behind Order 66.

    Discuss.
     
  14. Snafu55

    Snafu55 Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 19, 2015
    Oh the Ruusan Reformation is legends now...
     
  15. Ash_Satine

    Ash_Satine Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Thanks for including me. I'll post something over the weekend. I need some time for that and can't answer during work.
     
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  16. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Hi, wow great answers! Let me have a quick read over your detailed analysis!

    The role of a Jedi/how they are perceived - Yes great points. I loved that scene with Obi Wan and the Deathsticks. You're going to go home and rethink your life. And Obi Wan's smile. I concur it's more a life assistance action than necessarily policing. It was quite nice to see and hopefully there are Jedi doing that more often. The only thing would be powers being used to influence events. I also got the impression that whilst you had Jedi of action (e.g. Windu), and wise Jedi like Yoda, Obi Wan, and even Jedi who believed they should be more active, or bending the rules (Qui Gon), you had too much of a passive attitude in the PT era. Almost like the Jedi had become as bureaucratic and leaning towards apathy as much as the corrupt Republic they served. In a way they assisted the rise of the Emperor, and he outplayed them yes. I would have also thought the Jedi are perceived more as enforcers, either feared, or thought of as mythical creatures given Watto's reaction, or Dex etc. There does seem to be a respect for them. Although even a fear (from TPM when the TF try to kill the two Jedi on the ship). I think that is a point, given their patronage by the Republic in terms of a Temple, ships, etc, the Jedi would be viewed of as part and parcel of the Republic, or even a military. Certainly by the time the Clone Wars commence. Even when deployed as peacekeepers or security in AOTC, they are considered as an elite perhaps?

    Friendship - I agree, we saw the Jedi get on well with others. Certainly amongst themselves. I do wonder about outside the order, for instance be they contacts who were less "official" and maybe smugglers etc. Or just in general. E.g. Would a Jedi Knight be turning up to their friend's birthday party? I feel like the Jedi were compassionate, but perhaps somewhat rigid when it came to some members of the Order. I do wonder about Jedi in politics, given the Council primarily dealt with interacting with the Republic. Thus there not being questions about the Chosen One suddenly being "taken under the wing" of the Chancellor in the first place?

    Perceptions - Yes I think depending on your point of view, the Jedi could be guardians of the peace, mythical creatures, or armed guards, not to be trifled with. However, we could see the perception of them being invincible being challenged by the time of AOTC, and indeed completely broken when eventually they are overwhelmed at Geonosis by superior numbers of battle droids. It would appear that the mind trick tactic is something known even in the Outer Rim though, and unique to a Jedi.

    Citizens flirting and vice versa - Yes this is interesting. Aside from Anakin marrying Padme in secret, I meant in general with adults finding Jedi attractive. How those Jedi would respond to flirtation. Be that from just general day to day life when on their duties, or even when undercover etc. For instance, Anakin isn't the only younger Jedi about. There are also several female Jedi Knights of various species such as Aayla Secura etc which would be interesting to see how that "generation" interacts with flirtation etc. I can imagine Obi Wan responding with a witty bit of banter and smile. I find the idea of Yoda searching for that assassin like Obi Wan and Anakin were, and all the ladies in the club surrounding Yoda and dancing around him hilarious though.

    Relationships - Yes it seems before the OT era, the Jedi are forbidden from attachment, and this means no putting others before the mission (AOTC). So is a relationship actually possible? It makes you wonder about casual interactions though. However it did make me wonder about a poor Padawan who is assigned to Shaak Ti, or Aayla Secura, and struggling to control possible attraction. Or just the relationships between Jedi of the same age. Haven't seen much on screen, but it would be interesting to see how other Jedi of Anakin's age deal with this.

    Funding/Possesions - Yes in a way that may in part lead to further resentment or questioning the Jedi Order. It appears that they are entirely funded by the Republic, and have immense privileges such as a large Temple, robes, star fighters, hyperspace rings, communications equipment (on a separate network entirely via a Beacon) etc.

    I look forward to it. I too am primarily focused on the movies. We do see a fair amount of background of other Jedi Knights of Anakin/Obi Wan's age such as Shaak Ti, Adia Gallia, Qui Gon, Aayla Secura, Cin Drallig, etc. One of the questions was the lucky/poor Padawan who was assigned as apprentice to Aayla Secura. Learn control you must, he was told by Yoda. Easy, he thought. Then he realised who he was apprenticed to!


    That's a really great point.
    Jedi Temple
    Jedi Robes
    Lightsabers (and locating and extracting Kyber crystals to power them)
    Jedi Starfighters
    Hyperspace rings
    Separate Jedi Communication network via an installed beacon
    Droids
    Upkeep of a vast library and maintenance of all of the above

    I think the Jedi Order is given patronage by the Republic that they serve? It is an interesting question. In a way are the Jedi truly independent, do they have a vested interest in whatever the Republic does, permit it? What of their allegiance to the Senate, to the Force etc.

    I see. So not an "off the books" Order, but a transparent one? The Jedi appear to have vast resources at their command.

    Great points! Yes I suppose the Jedi are indeed the same as other sentients, and the Jedi themselves are from various backgrounds, cultures and species. We do see them form rapport with each other. Often a traditional Master/Padawan bond, and even banter going on. We see a few outside the Order friendships such as Dex, Bail Organa etc. That Kaminoan also seemed to like Obi Wan a lot in AOTC. We see several club goers checking out Anakin during the same film. I do wonder about the romantic/sexual entanglements though. Both within the Jedi Order and outside of it (e.g. Padme).


    What about a Jedi Knight apprenticed to Aayla Secura for instance? Or if a Jedi Knight of her, or Anakin’s age, is interacting with highly flirtatious citizens whilst they are patrolling/on assignments in the galaxy? I wonder how they would respond, or how far such interactions/relationships could go with regards to the Jedi code.


    I suppose the Jedi would have a mystique about them, although they could even be undercover. I do think they would have to succeed on merit. Just wonder whether you’re going to see female or male Jedi Knights/Masters, having romantic “compassionate” engagements with other citizens, or even themselves. Is it a Jedi shall not love, or a Jedi shall not form an official relationship?


    Oh wow, I mean I was going by the films, and I had seen a few comics which had shown other Jedi of Anakin’s age, interacting whilst on various Clone Wars assignments. But I wasn’t aware of Ki Ad. You’ve just made me laugh with your stud comment lol. I thought it hilarious though that Aayla Secura could walk into a bar, and not have everyone nervous around her. Or even the thought of Master Yoda walking into the mall to repair his communicator, and every woman tourist immediately surrounding him for a selfie, or dancing with him in a club environment. Is that why Yoda looked somewhat tired in one scene?


    I think the issue would be the oath to the Jedi and not putting anyone or anything above the mission (e.g. AOTC in the gunship when Padme falls). In fact, Anakin acted contrary to that to focus on saving his Master and not leave him behind at the start of ROTS also. It would I suppose depend on the interpretation of attachment, and of compassionate relationship. Jedi stud, or otherwise.


    As Qui Gon said, yes it would not be an easy life. Indeed even a Jedi’s actions. Qui Gon could not “interfere,” and only observe, but bended the rules to free a young slave he believed to be the Chosen One, or of some importance. I wonder if other Jedi acted on personal thoughts, rather than a rigid Republic doctrine. Or on the edge of the Jedi norms.


    And in particular how other young Jedi of Anakin/Obi Wan’s age interacted with their own “Padme’s” or even their Master/Padawan dynamics. Flirtation, or control?

    Even politics wise, it did appear that the Jedi Order were legendary guardians of peace and justice. But some, be it Qui Gon, Windu, or Dooku, had certain political ideals and acted on them in different ways.

    And you young @Ash Satine, we shall watch your comments with great interest!

    In a way, had the Arrest/Removal/Execution of the (last) Chancellor of the Old Republic succeeded, the Jedi junta may well have led the Republic to a safe and secure society! With their command of the Grand Army to enforce the Jedi Council's will, the Jedi Order may have had their own Empire.

    Order 66 was an executive order, that Palpatine enacted and outplayed the Jedi with. For the Jedi it wouldn't be particularly useful, since it is an action plan to eliminate Jedi who are branded enemies of the Republic. However, other orders to remove the Chancellor would come into their favour. Unless this was all a complex plan by a certain Jedi to take over everything and start even the Jedi Order over. So are you saying that Obi Wan secretly requested the troopers be trained in this order, and then turn on the Chancellor later by Order 67? And Supreme Leader Yoda, and Obi Wan would rule the galaxy? That Windu, actually survived and becomes the leader of the Army under his new alias, as agreed in that shadowy Jedi Council meeting before the arrest took place? The plot thickens........

    As for the Jedi taking over, I suppose it was true.
     
  17. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    I love the Jedi and all.

    But if I met one in real life, and he or she started spouting off like they do in the movies about how great and important they are, I would probably consider them to be a bunch of pretentious know-it-all's that I wouldn't want to associate with.
     
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  18. CaptainCrunch2007

    CaptainCrunch2007 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2007
    A Jedi's role in the galaxy

    I think that's dependant. A citizen on a core world, might see the Jedi as diplomats, guardians of the republic and democracy, liberators, humanitarians. But the further out you go that view point might change to being Republic enforcers, or even no role at all. Ask the slaves on worlds in the Republic, or victims of crime syndicates or the poor and oppressed about what they think the jedi role in the galaxy is, and they might answer, who knows, we're not important enough to get on the Jedi radar.

    Friendships with outsiders

    I think that depends on the Jedi more then anything else. We've seen Jedi form relationships with non force beings. But we've also seen Jedi who were fairly dismissive or possibly even contemptuous of those that don't use the force. And is Obi-wan really friends with Dex? Or is he cultivating a information source like a useful tool? Having good relations with the Wookies doesn't indicate a actual friendship with the wookies.

    The perceptions of the Jedi

    That's a broad question and it can be a deep rabbit hole. I'm sure that the lore on planets that hadn't seen a jedi for example are different then the planets that regularly do. There might be a perception of a extremely powerful group with wizard like powers that acts like peacekeepers and guardians. There might be planets where the Jedi are seen as lacky's for the senate and even worse oppressors. There might be planets or a demographic that see the Jedi as uncaring and aloof looking down on them from the guided castle while not raising a hand to save them. One thing is for sure, when Order 66 came down not everyone probably shed tears for the Jedi being exterminated. If I'm a slave on Tatooine and heard that the Jedi had saved one slave and not even his mother, I wouldn't be shedding too many tears for the guardians of freedom and peace.

    Citizens flirting with Jedi, or vice versa

    Again Jedi are individuals, and raised in what could be called a repressive monk like environment, so you send a young Jedi out into the world, there's no guarantee that he or she isn't going to take advantage of his or her status in the world, and because Jedi are the ultimate romantic heroic vision, people are going to go to them. The Jedi weren't monks in that there wasn't a vow of chastity. And those Jedi babies didn't all pop up due to divine intervention. I'm betting that the Jedi Temple Dormitory was pretty much like a college dorm

    Jedi family, intimacy with others, or relationships/rapport

    J
    edi weren't necessarily forbidden from attachment, it was discouraged, and they had to be prepared to sacrifice attachment to anyone or let go for the greater good. That doesn't mean that they didn't act of things like biological urges. I'm sure that there were work place romances and then they were more easily let go of . I'm sure that Padawan's and Masters became extremely attached to each other and it was difficult but necessary to let them go.


    Jedi possessions

    While the Jedi weren't allowed to possess individual possession, I have my doubts that was strictly enforced. The Jedi when it came to possession were fairly hypocritical as that whole temple was about wealth, oppulance, showing off, and displaying a power base. The Jedi as a whole group possessed. They didn't live a monastic life style and they didn't suffer. As far as things sure every jedi possessed robes and light sabers. But you look at the labels, Jedi had their own custom space ships and fighters for example Anakin possessed a droid. Like I said, when the Jedi fell a lot of people didn't share tears for them because they appeared to say one thing and do another, and possessing and gathering what appeared to be incredible wealth was one of those things.


     
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  19. Ash_Satine

    Ash_Satine Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Sorry for getting on it so late, there was too much work too do. Although I stopped reading the EU around 2000 so if there is something in the EU that contradict what I'm thinking you got to live with it. ;-)

    A Jedi's role

    I think the perception depends on the citizen and world. As they were later so entangled with the Republic/senate they surely didn't fulfill their own mandate anymore. Meaning that they had to turn a blind eye to matters the former Jedi generations would probably have done something about.

    I don't see the "deathstick matter" as a positive action by Obi-Wan or as an opportunity to enforce a law. First he wanted to be left alone, then enforcing a law by simply manipulating/mindtricking someone is just one thing: not enforcing a law.

    A couple examples that Jedi don't act as police are in TCW. On more than one occassion they were incredible passive or somewhat uncaring about there surroundings.

    Mostly they can act when the senate gives them the mandate. Or even somewhat along the way. If they, for example, observe a kidnapping during a mission, they probably still can act and help.


    Friendships with outsiders

    Why should't they be friends with outsiders? Although I doubt that these friendships are easy to maintain or that all friendships are somewhat close. Obi-Wan and Dex are surely friends, but on a more professional level. Obi-Wan gets information now and then, Dex probably has a quieter life in his diner because a Jedi comes sometimes in.

    What could stand against building a real friendship is the Jedi's position. It could be easily used.


    The perceptions of the Jedi

    I think that even at the height of the Jedi most citizens in the galaxy have never seen one. For them they are some mystical figures out of campfire stories.

    In other cases the perception will depend on the experience with Jedi. I doubt that slaves, victims of trafficking have a very good opinion of the Jedi. Some of that happened even in the Republic as Ryloth is under Rupublic control.

    Those who got helped will have a complety different and positive opinion.

    I like to compare that with my own perception of the police sometimes. When I go to a soccer match of my team there are few matches where I won't roll my eyes or get annoyed with the police because they always want to get me on the train with the other fans and I have to prove that I'm not living in the area of my team. Would that be my only experiences, I surely would have a negative perception of the police. But I know that they are helping etc from other situations.

    Would we have police in numbers that could be related with the numbers of Jedi in the galaxy, it would be very likely that the football-experience would build my perception of them.


    Flirting

    Why not? Although I think that the Jedi/person decides if they flirt or not. But it could be the same thing as with friendships. Jedi are in a position of power and probably a couple of flirts in some bars would be about gaining the Jedi for that power.

    That the flirting isn't seldom shows TCW. Ahsoka must have some experiences with flirting guys, otherwise she wouldn't have told Lux of with "guys are all the same".


    Family, intimacy

    In this matter I've got my problems with the Jedi. I know that in the EU were exceptions to the no-family-rule, but I don't like or accept how it is on screen. I think every youngling/padawan should have the chance to have some contact with the family (if they are alive or interested). As well as Anakin should have had some contact with his mother. That way there would be the normal process of growing up and loosening these attachments.

    I don't think forbidding attachments prevent them. Having attachments from childhood on and just learning in an everyday situation that attachments fade and people grow apart is a better way.

    In case of intimacy I doubt that that's a temple full of virgins. Jedi or not, they reach puberty and there's surely a maintanance room where padawans try to hit another target.

    Obi-Wan and Satine surely found some hiding spot during their year of running.

    BTW I guess that's also how it works with alcohol. I'm sure there were dozens of padawans sitting in classes with an hangover. Why? Because in the PT and especially TCW all politicians had glasses in their hands and present Jedi accepted the drinks. There has to be some "training".

    Possessions

    I think it depends on what someone deems as a possession. If a padawan has a extremely strict master there might not be much more then the clothes, lightsaber and stuff they need for their studies. Otherwise I do not think that everything is forbidden. Didn't Qui-Gon has plants? And given Obi-Wan that stone?

    Although when we see Anakin's room in TCW there are sure possessions: ship models, that podracing poster, a workbench with mechanical stuff. And no-one can tell me that in all those crates which were packed around the bed were clothes. Otherwise Skywalker has more clothes than I.

    And he has had his own ship, which was somewhat official allowed as the Twilight was parked in the temple bay or the Resolute and got used on missions. Obi-Wan borrowed it later for his own trip. The fighter Anakin uses seems as well to be for his personal use. In the new Thrawn book he takes it during his freetime to get to Padme.

    Mostly I think Jedi can have smaller possessions. Maybe something they find on missions, maybe a padawan collects stones, leaves, shells - something small from the planets they visit early on.

    What surely is forbidden are costly possessions. I don't think a Jedi is allowed to buy an expensive yacht or speeder.

    About the funding: The Republic will have funded them somewhat but I do think the Order got sometimes credits from governments they helped.

    But either the Order hasn't that much money or they were simply terrible employers because the non-clone workers in the temple surely didn't get paid well (as seen in TCW).
     
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  20. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    The Jedi are probably tax exempt, and get funding from the republic, as well as donations from citizens and other groups supporting them. They likely have a lot of money. Since the Jedi have other departments besides warrior monks(like the agricultural corp, and likely others, like a medical corp), They probably do a lot of humanitarian work, and come into contact with people more often than we might assume.

    Prior to the CW, the Jedi are basically worshipped by the masses, and hated by gangsters, smugglers, pirates, et al. Obi-Wan and Qui Gonn went on numerous Peace/diplomacy missions before episode 1.
     
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  21. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Are you suggesting that a Jedi Council member would say:
    We love democracy.
    We love the Republic.
    The power you give us, we will lay down when the crisis has abated! And as our first act with our authority, we will overthrow the Galactic Government and take control of the Senate....... For a safe, and secure, society!

    I think the Jedi were noble. But yes, they seem a little detached. Not to the extent of the corrupt representatives of the Republic in the Senate, but too detached from real events, so as to firstly understand them, and also to be able to be relatable to the ordinary citizen. For too long perhaps had they remained in the confines of their prestigious somewhat secluded life of their precious Temple.

    However, it would be interesting to see the reaction of outside citizens to Jedi. I could see Yoda getting a lot of attention if he entered a nightclub. Or Master Dooku giving a rousing speech at universities. I do wonder how Jedi of Anakin's age acted toward another. E.g. Take the likes of Serra Keto, Aayla Secura, or even Jedi of Obi Wan's generation like Adia Gallia, Cin Drallig, Qui Gon Jinn, Master Windu etc. How would they interact with citizens, when it comes to relationships (be that friendship, flirtation, politics, undercover assignments)?

    If so, this could lead to some questioning their status. The Jedi not paying taxes, yet having privilege, a certain class/status, access to publicly provided buildings (a Temple no less), vehicles, clothes, food, facilities, computer resources, droids, medical equipment and a specially built separate communications beacon network, and you could begin to wonder whether the Jedi weren't viewed as not only mythical beings, but a certain "elite" organisation, outside the constitution itself. And accountable to whom?

    That's what I'm asking about too! See the Jedi must come into contact with people/citizens. So what about their rapport with the people they meet?
    E.g. take undercover operations where they aren't known to be Jedi (at least at first) - what if an attractive Jedi like Aayla Secura, or Anakin/Obi Wan happens to meet someone who flirts with them?
    What about Jedi friendships with citizens in general? E.g. take Dex, or Jar Jar, or Padme
    What about Jedi relationships with the politicians? And their role in politics?

    Going by film canon only, do the Jedi have the "love" of the people? To me they seemed like incredible beings. And it is told to us that this is a "civilised age."

    Interesting points, so:


    Jedi’s role - Yes I think the core worlds might see the Jedi as “guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy.” Even Watto seemed to mention the Jedi though in both TPM and AOTC. So it seems that the Jedi are indeed known galaxy wide. I wonder about the slavery. I mean that itself is on the Republic, which clearly is apathetic to problems, to crime, to chaos and corruption. Qui Gon did mention he wasn’t there to free slaves. And it does appear that the Jedi code is conformed to serve the interests of the Republic, no matter how corrupt and ineffectual it is (e.g. more Jedi action is not taken vis a vis Naboo). So as you say, to the oppressed and the slaves, they may view the Jedi as no better than the Republic. But there is a certain respect of a Jedi, versus a politician, and also a certain fear of the Jedi by the gangsters and “bad guys” in the galaxy.


    Friendships with others - Yes we’ve seen Padme, Dex, Jar Jar, and politicians shown to us. Yes that’s actually an excellent point. So the whole “it’s not personal, it’s business.” So are these “contacts” just assets/sources of intel and not true friends of the elite Jedi? I did seem to think that Yoda seemed to care, and vice versa regarding the Wookies. And Senator Organa certainly went out of his way to help the Jedi. What about flirtation and relationships though? We are told attachment is forbidden. But what if a Jedi is undercover on assignment where people are hitting on them? Or even Jedi being hit on in general when away from Coruscant?


    Public Perceptions - Yes I can see how the Jedi would be seen as wizards. It almost reminds me of Endor where C3PO is seen to be suddenly using his “powers” to the Ewoks. We see in TPM, how Qui Gon and Obi Wan start cutting through the door in the opening scene (which is fantastic scene showcasing the Jedi) and the Neimodians are truly scared and in awe. I think the illusion or perception of their “power” was probably shattered by the Battle of Geonosis, where we see the mighty Jedi fall to numbers. And yes, by Order 66, it appears their moral high ground has gone to an extent, and their reputation in question, since they are apparently the ones to have tried to “overthrow” the Republic via their little coup.



    Citizens - Interesting. How do you mean? So you’re saying a young Jedi would essentially be like partying students? I almost wonder about the Jedi Knight apprenticed to Aayla Secura haha. I mean we see Anakin with Obi Wan. But I do wonder about other combos. As for other citizens, do you think other galactic citizens would try to romance a Jedi then? So Jedi Knights are dispatched to multiple worlds and the local leaders/citizenry do the essential opposite of Anakin and Padme?


    Jedi intimacy - Yes that’s a point. So are you saying it is about complete non attachment and willing to sacrifice anything for the Order? We see Anakin refuse to leave Obi Wan behind in ROTS, though come to realise he must continue onward to apprehend Dooku in AOTC. Biological urges? Wait you mean Jedi would probably have casual interactions? What about the poor sap who was assigned under Aayla Secura haha!


    Jedi possessions - Just made me wonder, since R2D2, a Naboo droid, spends a lot of time on Jedi missions! Maybe R2D2’s way to venture beyond the confines of Naboo and strike it big. Indeed the Jedi Temple seemed opulent, and about a power base. Status, prestige, a political elite. The Jedi have privilege and status. And power. They are indeed part of the Republic, since ultimately they are the only ones standing between Palpatine and “absolute power!” and ironically vice versa. Had the Jedi wanted to take over, he also stood in their way. Indeed, I can understand customising a lightsaber, but the Jedi did seem to have personalised star fighters, personalised subsided dress codes, personalised droids. Incredible prestige and privilege?

    Hello, not to worry. I am only focussing on film canon, although I think someone mentioned a comic showing Jedi off also. We only saw glimpses of Jedi in TCW in any case (focusing on Jedi as a whole). Glad to see your thoughts. Yes, so,


    A Jedi’s role - Indeed it depended on your “point of view” I suppose. I would have thought everyone viewed the Jedi as remarkable beings. Whether they were the “good, or bad guys” would depend on if you were a good, or bad guy yourself I suppose. They appeared to be regarded with awe, even when in fear. E.g. take the opening of TPM as Qui Gon cuts through that door. (That music made the scene even more epic). It would appear that Watto is well aware of the Jedi’s powers and penchant for justice. The citizens of the core worlds appear to be respectful and recognise the Jedi’s authority and wisdom. However, by being part and parcel of the Republic, it would seem that the Jedi are almost regarded as either apathetic, or perhaps as “corrupt” as the Republic itself. Their mandate was selective in terms of what they Republic wanted to do (whether that was anything at all). It did appear that the Jedi were perceived as virtually mythical creatures, who no one could kill, until the time of AOTC where finally that image is shattered in the Arena on Geonosis.


    I did enjoy the Deathstick scene. Perhaps it was a mix of both? Obi Wan wanting to focus on the task at hand, and also do his part to make the galaxy a better place. However, you’re right, he is essentially mind tricking someone. One wonders though had the Jedi engaged more in this community action, that the galaxy would have been a better place, rather than them just “hanging about” whilst the Republic ignored the decay and decadence of itself and its own apathy to poverty, corruption, crime etc.I do think the Jedi often seem to lack the reliability to the populace, that’s true.


    Friendships with outsiders - Oh I agree. I think friendships could occur. I just wondered in the context of the Jedi ethos we see. Obi Wan seems to be friends with Dex, Jar Jar, Padme etc. And Bail Organa seems to be a friend of the Jedi, who goes out of his way to help them in ROTS. It appears that Dooku became political and made friends. It appears certain that somehow Palpatine becomes friends/a mentor to young Anakin. The Wookies appear genuinely concerned about Yoda. How do you mean position? Are you saying the Jedi, or citizen could use their power to influence events? Corruption?


    Perceptions - Yes I think a lot of people have heard about the Jedi. They are around after all, during this “civilised age” that Obi Wan refers to, or a golden age. And they are the keepers of peace, so must be active. However, they would be regarded with a mythical light about them right. True, I think the slaves, the victims of crime (owing to Republic apathy) and the poor, would have a good opinion of the Jedi, who may be viewed as agents of the corrupt Republic. I think when you meet the Jedi, you will note that they are not one and the same, and the Jedi do indeed “use their powers for good” as Anakin postulates in ROTS. Perhaps if the Jedi acted more independently of the Senate, then they would be viewed more favourably. Versus being politicised so to speak?


    Flirting - Yes I wondered about this. Two fold. I also thought why not. But take two cases. The first being a Jedi and another Jedi. Now this could be the case of two young Jedi (of say Anakin’s age, or Obi Wan’s generation), or even the poor sap who is apprenticed to Aayla Secura and has to adhere to Yoda’s “control your feelings you must!” We see banter between Jedi, so it would be interesting to see this. The other is the case of Jedi and citizens (non Jedi). This could either be in the event of a Jedi Knight being off world (away from the Temple) and officially on assignment, or in the other case, where they might be undercover, and no one knows who they really are. Would the Jedi, in either case, reciprocate the flirting of a galactic citizen? Surely the Jedi would be viewed as attractive? If the leader of a world, flirted with Master Gallia, or Secura, or Obi Wan, I wonder what they would do? So Jedi being “hit on.” Also, the idea of Master Yoda dancing in a nightclub with dozens of women around DJ Yoda, just makes me laugh.


    Family, intimacy - Yes, I think the Jedi appear to be almost taken at a very young age, before they develop attachment. But this seems somewhat questionable. I suppose the Jedi become your “family.” But yes Anakin partly suffered owing to this lack of relationship with his own family.


    Oh that’s interesting. So how do you mean? Are you saying the Jedi are actually engaging in casual intimacy often? I mean are the Padawans, or even the Masters like partying a lot or something. Not sure what the whole compassion, not attachment means with regards to relationships of the physical kind. Or are you saying the Jedi are essentially like a fraternity, or sorority?!


    Possesions - Yes the Jedi appear to be “gifted” a privileged position with a Jedi Temple, a Jedi special beacon system, Jedi robes, food, expenses, starfighters, droids, you name it. The Jedi are beginning to sound more and more like they are the true rulers of the Republic. Don Yoda and Don Windu? Yes on a separate note, doesn’t anyone else note that Anakin often wears quite “dark” clothing for a Jedi? The theme seems to be a brownish set of robes, sometimes with a beige element. But Anakin goes around the place wearing black a lot. And leather?! R2D2 also seems to have become part of the Jedi team. The Jedi do seem to have personalised star fighters also! And Windu and the arrest team venture out in a Republic Gunship seemingly docked in the Jedi Temple.


    It seems that the Jedi are very interesting indeed!
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  22. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    @DarthTalonx: I think that the Jedi in the GFFA would be the equivalent of pretentious TED Talk speakers in our modern day and age.

    Just this presumption in someone like that to think they are the one to get up and speak and tell everybody else how to think and do things. That they have some knowledge or know-how about the world that people can't figure out for themselves. That in itself takes quite a level of assumption about yourself and your audience just to be able to do that in the first place (not you personally).

    But then of course, you have a decent portion of society who believe in these speakers and what they say, who buy into this assumption that that person is qualified to speak down to them. Which wouldn't be any different than in the GFFA. And it would just be a cycle that perpetuates itself, like it does in our modern day and age.
     
  23. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Since when have we ever seen the Jedi ever stand up and tell the populace what to do or think? I must have missed that part.
    Isn't their job to ensure the Republic's continued freedom?
     
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  24. theraphos

    theraphos Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 20, 2016
    Okay, you are continually doing this. What is so consistently "hilarious" about the idea of a woman who is respected in her Order for her training and accomplishments being able to train students and go about her job and interact with her colleagues without the audience assuming everyone around her must constantly be panting like dogs and reducing her to a fetish object? Particularly given that TCW portrayed everyone around Aayla in particular as being perfectly capable of conducting themselves in a mature and appropriate fashion and treating her (and her fellow Jedi women) with respect, outside of a couple of obvious villain moments like Hondo being a creep about who he'd sell Ahsoka to.

    Some of these comments are barely a step above "and then what if all her clothes fell off haha wouldn't that be hilarious haha I'm just saying haha."
     
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  25. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    There's a stigma attached to Twileks, and Aayla wears a skimpy outfit. I can't remember how many times I've read in a SW book "...like a Twilek dancer." Plus they're known throughout the GFFA as sex slaves, and everyone finds them irresistible. Ashoka wears suggestive clothes as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018