Jedi Council Forums - New Republic Capital Ships - still sorting out the mess... (Fleet Junkies- HO!)

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Author	Topic: New Republic Capital Ships - still sorting out the mess... (Fleet Junkies- HO!)
Pelranius Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 1/9/04 2:28am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	Oh, those things are interesting from Survivor's Quest. Explains why Palps sent so many ships, but not why we didn't see more of those things. -----signature----- Fleet Junkie and Proud! Fics: Destiny's Inferno (TTT/DE AU) And the Skywalker Saga KOTOR Style Updated 7/24/06 see bio for details
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AdmiralNick22 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 1/9/04 10:52am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	They could be those ships from the Corporate sector, but I have a slightly differnet idea. We know that Zahn loves to include Katana style Dreadnaught heavy cruisers. Perhaps Palpatine sent a fleet of modified dreadnaughts of this type? Its just a thought, but I suppose we will not know for sure until the book comes out. -----signature----- Fleet Junkie Founding Father Official Greatest Admiral Ackbar Fan "A peaceful Galactic Alliance is the strongest pillar of a peaceful galaxy." - Luke Skywalker "I will surrender, Admiral, when I can no longer fight!" - Admiral Gar Stazi A New Hope
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JoruusCbaoth Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 1/9/04 9:04pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	Oh, my TaB sourcebook has arrived, but I have yet to crack it open. We'll see what wonders my fleet junkie mind can coax out of it. -----signature----- Orignal Fleet Junkie
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Pelranius Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 1/9/04 9:21pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	Parck said top of the line ships, so personally I'd assume Victory Star Destroyers. -----signature----- Fleet Junkie and Proud! Fics: Destiny's Inferno (TTT/DE AU) And the Skywalker Saga KOTOR Style Updated 7/24/06 see bio for details
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seeker_two Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 1/9/04 9:25pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	AdmiralNick: They could be those ships from the Corporate sector, but I have a slightly differnet idea. I doubt that the Republic would use a Sith War-era ship 3,000 out of date for that mission. I like your Dreadnaught idea, but I think it may be something different. Why not modified Acclimator- or Victory-Class vessels? Compared to what's been fielded prior to the Clone Wars, they would seem like "superdreadnaughts" to most people... ?:\| -----signature----- If Han can shoot first, why can't I?... No, Sebastian Shaw was NOT standing in for Hayden.... If it's alright with you, I'm going to pretend the whole Vong thing never happened... [link=http://starwars.wikia.com]Wookiepedia[/link]
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Lord_Darth_Bob Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 1/9/04 10:41pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	AdmiralNick22: Quite frankly, the topic doesn't die because arguments and evidence is brought forth, and it is never refuted with true arguments or counterexamples. All I've seen are a sea of logic fallacies, particularly the Appeal to Authority. Now, I will prepare an addendum to my Star Destroyer assertion on this one big logical fallacy about "its just fictional," why its fallacious, lazy reasoning, and basically a blank check for some EU authors to excuse their occasional intellecutal laziness, incompetence, and lack of internal consistency. -----signature----- Things that Lucas Licensing does not consider official parts of the continuous Star Wars history show an Infinities logo or are contained in Star Wars Tales. Everything else is considered canon. Fleet Junkie - Saxtonian Bulldog Uncivilized Debater
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FTeik Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 1/10/04 1:37am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	For the Superdreadnoughts i would expect something at least eleven times the lenght of an ordinary dreadnought. (smiles). Seriously, i bet we get something along the lines of the Mandator-Class-Stardreadnought from the AotC:ICS, a modern version of the Invincible-Class-Dreadnought or a completely new ship. Perhaps Zhan is even going so far as to correct his own history with the Katana-fleet turning them into much bigger, more powerful ships than the 600 meter Rendili-Dreadnoughts. -----signature----- My first completet story: Pride's Prize: http://boards.theforce.net/message.aspx?topic=22758760 "In the Battle of Coruscant alone, hundreds of millions of battle droids saw action on the ground and in space. " Insider #86 - The story of General Grievous
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Vympel Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 1/10/04 2:18am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	Why not modified Acclimator- or Victory-Class vessels? Compared to what's been fielded prior to the Clone Wars, they would seem like "superdreadnaughts" to most people... You're forgetting the Mandator and Procurator class ships- Star Battlecruisers and Star Dreadnoughts, respecitvely (may have gotten it mixed up ...).
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CaptainArdiff Registered: Nov '99	Date Posted: 1/10/04 4:58am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	I suppose it depends on how one defines the term "superdreadnought". On our earth it means a heavy battleship with substantially greater capabilities - e.g. firepower, armour, speed, etc - than the original modern battleship H.M.S. Dreadnought. If the Star Wars authors follow the precise derivation of this they could still come up with two distinct applications of the term "superdreadnought". 1) A heavy warship with greater firepower and/or speed, etc, than any other vessel. 2) A heavy warship with more firepower than the Star Wars in-universe Dreadnaughts. Therefore, anything bigger or better armed than a 600m long heavy cruiser that can only mount a single fighter squadron. Whichever it is, I look forward to some day finding out how Thrawn eliminates them with his obsolete craft! -----signature----- Blame Thande! www.alternatehistory.com/discussion
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seeker_two Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 1/10/04 8:59am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	You're forgetting the Mandator and Procurator class ships- Star Battlecruisers and Star Dreadnoughts, respecitvely (may have gotten it mixed up ...). I've never heard of those. Any stats and/or pics? ?:\| -----signature----- If Han can shoot first, why can't I?... No, Sebastian Shaw was NOT standing in for Hayden.... If it's alright with you, I'm going to pretend the whole Vong thing never happened... [link=http://starwars.wikia.com]Wookiepedia[/link]
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CaptainArdiff Registered: Nov '99	Date Posted: 1/10/04 9:17am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	I don't know that stats exist for them. I'm sure you could even find people who would spend hours arguing that they aren't canon. Want to know why? They're referred to in the AotC: Incredible Cross Sections book. I believe on the top right of the pages that deal with the Acclamator-class. This book is written by a certain Dr Curtis Saxton. (Beloved by all!) The ships are referred to (if memory serves) as huge, certainly in excess of one mile, possibly several-mile long warships. However, they are only system defence ships for the large shipyards, rather than proto-Executors. If any pics or stats exist, they're probably fanfic, and contacting Dr S may be impossible. I tried to reach him about a year ago to discuss whether the term "Super Star Destroyer" might be analogous to our term "Superdreadnought", but got no reply. Either he was busy, or he gets too much e-hassle from people over his stringent observation of canon, and so doesn't reply. There doesn't seem to be aught on TechComm dealing with them, perhaps copyright reasons. -----signature----- Blame Thande! www.alternatehistory.com/discussion
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CaptainArdiff Registered: Nov '99	Date Posted: 1/10/04 9:32am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	Just thought, the titles Star Battleship and Star Battlecuiser were chosen by Saxton himself. Although I have no contact with the chap, I did develop a theory (a fixer-upper for the clashes between sources, that is) that there were two different naming systems. This arises because there's a school of though that says that Star Destroyer isn't a class, but a warship type, like Destroyer in our world. Now this creates problems because Destroyers cannot be smaller than Cruisers, it doesn't happen...although the number of arguments I've had with people who said that it didn't matter because the system could be the other way round in Star Wars (Note 1). The fix was that ships like the Dreadnaught Heavy Cruiser and the Lancer Frigate were of the lower ship classification system, whilst Star Destroyers were at the lower end of another, higher scale of far grander ships. The defining characteristic was the presence or absence of the word "Star" prior to the vessel's type. Note 1: The Imperial Sourcebook contains a reference to a chap getting promoted from Commodore to Rear-Admiral upon leaving the Imperial Navy. The rank of Commodore is actually below that of Rear-Admiral. So what we have here is somebody clearly transposing the two titles by mistake. However, if we were to attempt to fix this problem in the same way that people want to resolve the problem of Destroyers being bigger than cruisers, we'd get this rank system. Fleet Admiral outranks Admiral, who outranks Vice-Admiral...who outranks Commodore...who outranks Rear Admiral. which is loopy! Just to close-I'm not saying that Star Destroyer means that the ship is equivalent to a Destroyer, just offering a fix to keep everybody happy. -----signature----- Blame Thande! www.alternatehistory.com/discussion
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Lord_Darth_Bob Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 1/10/04 10:12am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	CaptainArdiff: You happened upon the lynchpin of my SD theory-in-progress. Glad to see this wasn't merely some delusion of my psyche. I'll hope to tie up any loose ends with my theory. -----signature----- Things that Lucas Licensing does not consider official parts of the continuous Star Wars history show an Infinities logo or are contained in Star Wars Tales. Everything else is considered canon. Fleet Junkie - Saxtonian Bulldog Uncivilized Debater
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Jacques_the_shrimp Registered: Dec '03	Date Posted: 1/10/04 11:49am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	Perhaps someone can explain this to me: The WEG stuff is based off the books. Therefore it cannot over ride the books. Now its clear that they messed up and just swapped the names. So why must we create an unnecessary new class instead of just writing it off as "The person who prepared the report we are reading in CTD made a mistake, and that poor research led to further mistakes in the NEGVV and SSotG". It treats everything as in universe, requires no dismissal of evidence, and is a much simpler theory then this "they built it, then decided ti was bad, then bought the same ship under another name" stuff.
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alpha_red Registered: Aug '03	Date Posted: 1/10/04 11:52am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
	Just a quick question. I'm rereading HoT to examine Mara Jade's characterization, and it just hit upon me that I don't know the specs for the Kaloth Battlecruiser, or the Corporate Sector's Invincible-class ships. Anyone know some specs for them? -----signature----- Noli manare, manare in memoria. Fleet Junkie, Saxtonian Nightcrawler Yuuzhan'tar GM & EUC Senator \| The strongest bonds are forged in pain. I just officially changed my ship to Jacen/Nen Yim. Eat your heart out, slashers.
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