Author Topic: New Republic Capital Ships - still sorting out the mess... (Fleet Junkies- HO!)
Wes  675 posts
Registered: Oct '00
6878_Admiral Daala
Date Posted: 1/21/04 12:41am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
Peace with the IR should have increased the production of the New Class. With peace, less yards would be need for repairs and since peace is the best time to remake a fleet then the old ships like Corellian Corvettes, Gunships, MC-80/a's, early MC-40s, Bulk Cruisers, Dreadnaughts, and such would be retired and the NRDF would finally get what its been trying to do for 20 years, get a more standardised fleet.

It would be initially expensive but cheaper in the long run from the way the fleet was during the civil war.

I always thought it would be silly to stop producing New Class ships because of the peace, sure you wouldn't need to keep fleet levels as high, but you wouldn't stop producing your more advanced vessels. YOu'd stop producing the older class, such as the Imperial. The ISD should have been stopped after the peace and the Nebula, Defender and Republic Star Destroyers should have taken their berths in construcion yards.

As the ISDs got old the NRDF should have taken them out as soon as a NSD, DSD, RSD came online to take its place. The NRDF should have also considered even returning captured ISDs to the IR as a part of the good relations and a sign of trust. One or two a year, stripped of some of the NR equipment of course. Or even sell them to the IR at a cheap price, since they are selling them a ship that can be bested by the class that is replacing it through the entire fleet.

But of course this didn't happen. We even see MC-80s been built during the NJO when the MC-90 is over a decade old.

 

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Borleias  918 posts
Registered: Dec '03
6289_A-Wing
Date Posted: 1/21/04 1:55am Subject: To Sharky
I just read a copy of SotG at my local Chapters and I noticed something curious. Apparently the ISDII costs only ~144,000,000 credits, while the DSD costs ~168,000,000 credits. So apparently the New Republic's new SD was more expensive, despite being less crew intensive. The book also said that the DSD was the "ultimate" Star Destroyer, capable of single-handedly taking on any class of large ship (MC series, ISDs, VSDs), 2 medium-sized ships (Majestic-class, Dreadnought, Vindicator) and a whole fleet of small ships (Carracks, Nebs, Gunships, etc...). The key to its success was that it had manoeuvring thrusters along its flanks, making it more nimble than the ISD. The reason why there aren't so many of them is because they're pretty expensive for their size, and I would venture to guess that it's also because the NR military was not exatly making a large expansion after the surrender of the IR.


1) Not familiar with this abbreviation "SotG."
2) Those must be totally different credits. The Neb-B is worth about 194,000,000 credits (presumably Imperial.) Supposedly, the ISD is "less than 20x as much," which means up to 3.88 billion credits. Unless New Republic credits are worth something like 20 old Imperial credits each, there's a problem. (BTW, the unofficial exchange rate at the time of HTTE was 5 Imp to 4 NR credits.)
3) This extra maneuverability does not show in the RPG (both classes rated at 1D.) Personally, I wonder how much of a help those little thrusters are in comparison to using differential and vectored thrust from the main engines.
4) What DOES show in the RPG is about 80% of the ISD-IIs firepower and superior shielding (5D vs 2D+2 for the ISD-II.) 12D shield+hull implies a very high instantaneous shield dissipation rate.
5) In combat properties, the Defender is very impressive (going purely by RPG here because there's clearly no movie Defender.) But it seems bought at the price of more extensive maintenance (KDY Star Destroyer designs tend to be rated for 6 YEARS and the Defender for only 5 MONTHS.) Perhaps it is this performance itself that's counting against the ship being built - it is too expensive and unreliable for mass production.

 

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Borleias  918 posts
Registered: Dec '03
6289_A-Wing
Date Posted: 1/21/04 4:13am Subject: Wes
But of course this didn't happen. We even see MC-80s been built during the NJO when the MC-90 is over a decade old.


The MC90, as I understand it, is supposed to be a very expensive and HARD TO BUILD flagship. According to the RSB, the MC80s can be popped out at the rate of one every six months.

The MC80B, on the other hand, took from a few months after Endor to two years post Endor (call it 18 months, say?) And they had been building the MC90 Galactic Voyager ever since six months after Endor! They eventually got it around Dark Empire (5-6 years later.)

It's no wonder they decided to try a new strategy. The frigging Executor was built faster than this!

I always thought it would be silly to stop producing New Class ships because of the peace, sure you wouldn't need to keep fleet levels as high, but you wouldn't stop producing your more advanced vessels. YOu'd stop producing the older class, such as the Imperial. The ISD should have been stopped after the peace and the Nebula, Defender and Republic Star Destroyers should have taken their berths in construcion yards.


More Republics. Fewer Defenders. Defenders seem notoriously hard to make (even if you add how skimping the NR is on the military.)

I'd also hesitate slightly before thinking of a Defender as superior across the board. Except for its exceptional difficulties in production, it looks more to me to be a ship built to NR doctrine, with a differing set of compromises to match.

It is a ship with a very high tooth-to-teeth ratio, which certainly improves its abilities for a defensive fleet. It is also smaller. It got 80% of the ISD-IIs firepower, but much better shields and better speed (really acceleration in space.)

Tail, however, decides staying power. It seems to me to achieve the increased efficiency, what really happened was that the Defender cut out about 550m of space (with corresponding decreases in width and height) that used to have consumables enough for 6 years. In SW, given the power of the ships, their fuel is an disproportionate burden, and by cutting out over 90% of that, it is very little surprise that it could beat an ISD.

After cutting out the fuel, the next place of attack is the troop complement, which is reduced to about 20% of what it was. Two thousand troops only conquer planets in Star Trek :-)

Between the two, the multi-function, power projection and autonomy of the ship is greatly compromised.

So, perhaps, just perhaps, what made them continue to produce and retain the Imp-IIs and other older ships was to retain a superior power projection capability.

 

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Wes  675 posts
Registered: Oct '00
6878_Admiral Daala
Date Posted: 1/21/04 5:28am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
The MC90, as I understand it, is supposed to be a very expensive and HARD TO BUILD flagship. According to the RSB, the MC80s can be popped out at the rate of one every six months.

The MC80B, on the other hand, took from a few months after Endor to two years post Endor (call it 18 months, say?) And they had been building the MC90 Galactic Voyager ever since six months after Endor! They eventually got it around Dark Empire (5-6 years later.)

It's no wonder they decided to try a new strategy. The frigging Executor was built faster than this!


What I find hard to understand is why it is so hard to build? The MC80s were each individually unique, I would think that it would be hard to build these. The MC90 was the first totally multi-species vessel built by the Mon Cals so you would expect that development would take some time. Prototypes tend to take much longer then the production model. Correct me if I'm wrong (which is quite possible) but the Startide was going to be the first ship launched from the Mon Cal docks after the events of Dark Empire and in the Jedi Academy Trilogy she was just about ready to go and that was a year later, so it can't take that long.

More Republics. Fewer Defenders. Defenders seem notoriously hard to make (even if you add how skimping the NR is on the military.)

I'd also hesitate slightly before thinking of a Defender as superior across the board. Except for its exceptional difficulties in production, it looks more to me to be a ship built to NR doctrine, with a differing set of compromises to match.

It is a ship with a very high tooth-to-teeth ratio, which certainly improves its abilities for a defensive fleet. It is also smaller. It got 80% of the ISD-IIs firepower, but much better shields and better speed (really acceleration in space.)


The Defender can afford to give some firepower away to the ISD-II, they carry roughly the same number of fighters and given that NR fighters are general superior to Imperial fighters. You have 6 squads of proton torp/concussion missile carrying craft that can give the Defender the edge in battle.

Tail, however, decides staying power. It seems to me to achieve the increased efficiency, what really happened was that the Defender cut out about 550m of space (with corresponding decreases in width and height) that used to have consumables enough for 6 years. In SW, given the power of the ships, their fuel is an disproportionate burden, and by cutting out over 90% of that, it is very little surprise that it could beat an ISD.

After cutting out the fuel, the next place of attack is the troop complement, which is reduced to about 20% of what it was. Two thousand troops only conquer planets in Star Trek :-)

Between the two, the multi-function, power projection and autonomy of the ship is greatly compromised.


NR Star Destroyers and the Empires Star Destroyers were built for different things. The Empire wanted a ship that could pacify a rebel world on its own. It had the firepower to slag it from space and it carryed the personnel to enforce Imperial law.

The NR whoever didn't need this. The NR didn't pacify rebelling worlds, worlds could join and leave the NR at will. If troops were needed it would be a major operation and more then one vessel would be involved and the NR already seemed to have a number of troop transports in service already.

So, perhaps, just perhaps, what made them continue to produce and retain the Imp-IIs and other older ships was to retain a superior power projection capability. [/blockquote]

The Imp-II is a good ship, no doubt about it. But lets look at the New Class and ships they would replace and see if we can see if they, like the Imp-II can still stand up to it.

Agave class Picket ship

I don't know of any NR or Rebellion class of vessel that filled this role, but my guess is during the Rebellion it would be mostly coverted freighters would fill the role of the unnoticed scout ships.

Warrior class Gunship

Light warship, anti-starfighter platform. Perfect to replace the Corvettes and even the Neb-b in some cases in the light warship role, and the Corellian Gunship and Lancer class cruisers in anti-starfighter roles.

Corona class Frigate

With decent firepower and ability to support starfighters, an obvious replacement for the Neb-b. It has more firepower and carries one extra squad of fighters.

Sacheen class Light Escort

Small warship with decent firepower and the ability to carry one squad around. Again a vessel to replace the small warships of the Alliance fleet.

Belarus class Medium Cruiser

A nicely armed vessel, good for capital ship slugging matches. A good replacement for the Dreadnaught or Rebel Assault Cruiser. Fills the same role these ships did in the medium sized warship role.

Majestic class Heavy Cruiser

Heavily armed and can carry a number of starfighter squads. Its firepower is similiar to the Victory if you don't count the missile launchers on the Vic and its firepower isn't that far off the MC-80s series of cruisers despite the fact the MC-80s are nearly twice the size.

That's all I can be bothered to do now. But the point I'm getting to is that these ships are better then the ones they are replacing and the often project more power, etc then what they are replacing.

 

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Borleias  918 posts
Registered: Dec '03
6289_A-Wing
Date Posted: 1/21/04 6:02am Subject: To Wes...
Delays in development programs occur for a blinding variety of reasons. Tiny technical problems in R&D, indecisive politicians, other demands ... etc. The more useful thing is to recognize this has happened, and it is possible this scared them away.

The Defender can afford to give some firepower away to the ISD-II, they carry roughly the same number of fighters and given that NR fighters are general superior to Imperial fighters. You have 6 squads of proton torp/concussion missile carrying craft that can give the Defender the edge in battle.


I'm trying to concentrate on the ship. Fighters are a relatively easy swap compared to ships. NR ships often carry some TIE squadrons.

The NR whoever didn't need this. The NR didn't pacify rebelling worlds, worlds could join and leave the NR at will. If troops were needed it would be a major operation and more then one vessel would be involved and the NR already seemed to have a number of troop transports in service already.


The Empire also has dedicated troop transports. But that didn't stop them from building Star Destroyers with their large troop bays. There are advantages to troop transports that can really fight back, especially in the early phases of a campaign.

Some of the New-Class ships are admittedly genuine improvements. But most of the attention is placed on the biggest ships. They could have continued the New-Class and we won't know it for the small boys.

Answering a few specifics:
The Majestic vs VSD and MC-80s

Nobody ever said that the New-class doesn't have more teeth for their size. All I said was that they paid for it with a lack of tail. The Majestic holds but a single battalion (VSDs and MCs IIRC hold a short regiment of about 2000+.) The VSD is rated for 4 years, the MC-80 for two years of ops, but the Majestic is limited to 5 months.

Belarus Cruiser

Probably its opponent based on size class would be the Strike Cruiser. The ship has more and heavier turbolasers, but the Strike Cruiser has more ion cannons and better shielding and can stay out for 6 more months. The Strike Cruiser also carries starfighters, AND is more modular (though in some cases modular is a minus too.) I've never heard of a Belarus as a carrier, but I have heard a Strike Cruiser converted into a carrier.

Corona vs Neb-B

The Corona is the "kid" of the Neb-B. No doubt it is better.

Well, you get the idea.

 

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AdmiralNick22  6913 posts
Registered: May '03
7783_Ackbar
Date Posted: 1/21/04 7:30am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess... - Date Edited: 1/21/04 7:39am (1 edits total) Edited By: AdmiralNick22
Wes:

Welcome back!! happy

Haven't seen you in awhile.

Speaking about the MC-90, while they were described as hard to build in the early years of the NR, I imagine that over time they became easier and easier to produce. Starships of the Galaxy says that the MC-90 is one of the mainstays of the NR fleet, so obviously they must be pretty common. Of course, the MC-90 has probably been outclassed by the Mediator, but I am sure that it is still a powerful vessel.

Besides, the New Class never really replaced older NR ships. They just augmented them. Besides, by the NJO, we see many new vessels that probably replaced or outperformed the New Class. Ranger gunships, Bothan Assault cruisers, Mon Calamari Mediator class battlecruisers, Republic class cruiser, etc.

Now, obviously most of those vessels are larger capital ships. If anything, we have always seen a trend in the NR/GA to constantly build new and improved heavy capital ships, while keeping the same classes of frigate, corvette, medium cruiser, etc.

Borleias:

The Belarus class medium cruiser was developed by the makers of the Strike cruiser to replace the Strike cruiser. Unfortunately, the Belarus never became a common ship. If I remember correctly the Essential Chronology said that after Loronar produced the Needle fighter for Moff Getelles to use against the NR that all contracts that Loronar had pending were cancelled. I beleive that it also said that the move nearly sent Loronar into bankruptcy.

Of course, some must of been built, as that we see them in the Galactic Alliance fleet in TUF.

 

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Ton_G  3422 posts
Registered: Aug '02
6122_Bail Organa
Date Posted: 1/21/04 8:12am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
Well, with advent of the Innasion, it is likely many companies were helped out by the government, perhaps this is why we see Loronar vessels. Now, we know Loronar builds capital ships, so perhaps they are the creators of the Yald. If not, there are several who could have:

Kuat Drive Yards: It could have been a captures Imperial heavy cruiser

Republic Systems Engineering: The produced the Republic -class Cruiser...why not go bigger?

Rendili: They were busy creating the new Rejuvenator Star Destroyer, they may have had a whole new line of vessels.

Loronar: They may have gone back into buisiness, producing much needed vessels, aka Heavy Cruisers....

SoroSuub: They've produce enough, even capital ships, if you include the Liberator. If the Bothans can buils Assault Cruisers, then the Sullustans would likely have that same ability.

There are more....I'll see if I can cook a up a few later.

 

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Wes  675 posts
Registered: Oct '00
6878_Admiral Daala
Date Posted: 1/21/04 8:26am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
The NR also answers the lack of tail issue for the New Class with the Hajen Fleet Tender. These ships make it so that the New Class can be smaller yet pack a punch.

Of course there are problems with this system. It makes these unarmed vessels primary targets, especially for starfighters. You take them out and you will severely hamper the New Class fleets. All it takes is an accident and you have a problem, like at the start of Before the Storm when the Intrepid's tender overshoots and is 'destroyed'.

 

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Thrawn McEwok  13599 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered: May '00
43231_Chiss Ewok
Date Posted: 1/21/04 8:40am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess... - Date Edited: 1/21/04 8:42am (1 edits total) Edited By: Thrawn McEwok
AdmiralNick: but bear in mind that the key to the "New Classes" system wasn't so much the eight original class designations as the four basic hullforms that could be adapted for various designs... the 1040m Star Destroyer, the 700m cruiser, the 375m escort, and the 190m gunship...

Now we know that the 1040m hull is still being built - in the shape of the Defender-class Star Destroyer... and there's nothing to say that ships like the Republic and Ranger aren't built on the established REC hulls...

That said, when it came to actually fighting a war, the Defender didn't make much of a showing - it presumably couldn't be built in large enough numbers (too expensive, to complex)... and so someone dusted off the ImpStar design... which has reliably and repeatedly kicked the scar-heads in the unmentionables for most of the course of the war...

I mean, we saw a couple of Mediator-class battlecruisers blow up painfully in VP and AoC, but have we actually seen a single DefStar? The Viscount is a different issue (especially if it's a supercarrier), but there ain't been that many of them either... and the Fifth Fleet has stayed in a parking orbit around Bothawui...

So the war was won with ImpStar variants and old Mon Cal ships... from her size, firepower and toughness, I'm sticking with the idea that Bel Iblis' flagship (what happened to the Bail Organa, anyway?) was a sister ship to Home One...

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President_Sharky  1191 posts
Registered: Jan '04
24212_Palpatine
Date Posted: 1/21/04 3:57pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess... - Date Edited: 1/21/04 4:25pm (1 edits total) Edited By: President_Sharky
Borleias: SotG is the abbreviation for Starships of the Galaxy. I am familiar with the prices brought up by the ISB, and I am a tad bit confused over the discrepency as well, but I think the new material in SotG might override what was previously published by WEG. However, consider, inflation does not seem to be a problem in the SW galaxy, and less money in that universe seems to be worth more, perhaps similar to US dollar values in the late 1800s. I mean, Fifty Thousand credits was considered as a fortune in RotJ, as Jabba was furious that Bouush wanted that much for Chewbacca. In 2004, a super rich kingpin wouldn't break a sweat if a bounty hunter asked for 50k for a pay.

As for the amount of ISD-IIs, SotG mentions that they are actually not too common (perhaps because of all the post-Endor and post-DE Imperial infighting), and that for the most part they are stationed individually or in small groups in the Outer Rim. That is why ships like the Rejunvenator and the SDs defending Ithor where featured in the first few NJO books. Those were all outlying Republic systems, and the NR is still mainly in the Core to Inner Rim systems, with a few sectors such as Mon Calamari and Ottega still a part of the government. The other ISDs featured are only present in the later stages of the war because most of the inner fleet was obliterated at Coruscant and Fondor, these ships are little more than leftovers from the Galactic Civil War.

While it was shown that the Bilbringi Yards were still constucting ISDs, that might have only been so because the construction cheifs knew that they could not spare an entire year to build a DSD when and ISD, a much more common and less specialized design, could probably be built in much less time. This and the fact that the ISD has already been the subject to many variations probably led the NR military to make the "Senator" line of Interdictor Star Destroyers from the ISD frame instead of the DSD.

The New-class was meant to replace the NR's inner fleets, so I theorize that the NR military built the ships in sufficient quantities so that their Five central Defence Fleets were composed of mostly New-class ships. Remember that in Agents of Chaos II the Fondor shipyards had 30 SDs under construction. Since there was no class specified, we could assume that they were building DSDs. I'm confident that the times that the authors refer to "Star Destroyers", that numerous the classes of this ship, such as the Defender, the Victory, and the Imperial designs, are implied.

Also the MC90 was only in development since six months after Endor. That includes making preliminary designs, which would include for the first time (for Mon Calamari) multi-species control consoles, as well as a purely military design from scratch. They did this as well as serve as the NR's primary shipyard until they captured Kuat, and even then KDY was severely damaged. By DE, they had begun an attempt to deliver the MC90 as a Heavy Star Cruiser that could challenge ships like the ISD or even the Allegiance-class without fear. Production was slowed for years after DE because of the damage to the shipyards, but i'm sure that by the NJO the NR must have at least several hundred of these ships in service.

Ton-G: Why would the NR bother by developping a new cruiser type so early during the war? They already have the Vindicator-class, the Dreadnought, and the Majestic-class. Plus, the Republic-class was introduced as of DW, so I would assume that the Yald was a part of the Majestic-class of heavy cruisers, especially since Commodore Brand seems acquainted with the New-class vessels.

Wes: Any Republic fleet commander would have to be out of his or her mind if they actually brought a Hajeen-class fleet tender into the heat of a battle. These ships would probably remain with a token defence or perhaps at the fleet's operational HQ light-years away from any confrontation.

The Home One was hardly an impressive vessel, especially in light of the newer, pure military ships the Mon Calamari produced. The thing was a converted cruise ship for starters, and it was easily overwhelmed by a single ISD-II in Isard's Revenge. They were underarmed for their size as well, their only strong point was their shields. No I'm sticking with my idea that the Harbinger was an MC90 Star Cruiser, seeing that it was on the same heavy-hitting battle line as the SSD Guardian and the Star Defender Viscount during the Battle of Mon Calamari in the TUF. I can't imagine the GA assigning an MC80 or MC80B (or any converted cruise ships) to the main thrust of their defence.

However, the members of the Mediator-class have been consistently called Mon Calamari Battlecruisers, so I think that it's pretty much 100% sure that Bel-Iblis' command ship wasn't one of those ships. The Viscount is called a Star Defender and so I would believe that the Harbinger would be under the Star Defender title if it actually was of that class. That leaves the MC90 as the only choice left.

SotG states that the MC90 was a relatively expensive and rare vessel, and that they usually guarded key Core Worlds, IIRC serving as command ships, which is exactly what the Harbinger was doing.

 

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Borleias  918 posts
Registered: Dec '03
6289_A-Wing
Date Posted: 1/21/04 5:34pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
I mean, Fifty Thousand credits was considered as a fortune in RotJ, as Jabba was furious that Bouush wanted that much for Chewbacca. In 2004, a super rich kingpin wouldn't break a sweat if a bounty hunter asked for 50k for a pay.


Of course it was a fortune. To give an idea of scale, with 10000 you could buy a starship. A speeder costs maybe a few thousand based on the prices Luke was getting. 60000 gives you a TIE Fighter. While Even a cheap fighter in the modern world would probably cost a million US bucks or more.

While it was shown that the Bilbringi Yards were still constucting ISDs, that might have only been so because the construction cheifs knew that they could not spare an entire year to build a DSD when and ISD, a much more common and less specialized design, could probably be built in much less time. This and the fact that the ISD has already been the subject to many variations probably led the NR military to make the "Senator" line of Interdictor Star Destroyers from the ISD frame instead of the DSD.


So you agree the DSD is disproportionately hard to build in comparison to its size?

Also the MC90 was only in development since six months after Endor. That includes making preliminary designs, which would include for the first time (for Mon Calamari) multi-species control consoles, as well as a purely military design from scratch. They did this as well as serve as the NR's primary shipyard until they captured Kuat, and even then KDY was severely damaged. By DE, they had begun an attempt to deliver the MC90 as a Heavy Star Cruiser that could challenge ships like the ISD or even the Allegiance-class without fear. Production was slowed for years after DE because of the damage to the shipyards, but i'm sure that by the NJO the NR must have at least several hundred of these ships in service.


Design time is a factor, but is it enough? Five to six years is still very long for a shipyard that can supposedly punch out 1200m long ships every six months. A lot of that multi-species stuff is interface and can use existing components.

The Mon Cals probably have to redesign every time a new ship comes out anyway, since they insist each ship must be different. Even small differences can affect the balance of the ship, which must be re-calculated if the ship is not to suffer from handling problems.

 

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Ton_G  3422 posts
Registered: Aug '02
6122_Bail Organa
Date Posted: 1/21/04 7:29pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
Presidnet Sharky, you do have a point, but only three cruiser classes? Well, actually more... However the Republic has thousands of systems, and I'm sure there are many companies that would want to have a foothold in the Cpaital Ship buisiness, escpecially at the beginning of the invasion, where many companies might see a reason to begin construction of such vessels.

 

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CaptainArdiff  1580 posts
Registered: Nov '99
6460_Stormtrooper<br>Look Sir, Donuts!
Date Posted: 1/21/04 7:40pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
Just for reference on ship building. I've got Jane's Fighting Ships of WWI here. British shipyards produced eight Dreadnought battleships (5 Royal Sovereign class, 3 Queen Elizabeth, 2 Battlecruisers (Renown and Repulse I exclude HMS Hood, although she was being built during WWI, she wasn't ready until afterwards), 2 battleship sized cruisers (Courageous and Glorious), 38 light cruisers, 30 Flotilla Leaders, and over 250 destroyers. Several shipyards working together during wartime - so at full tilt. The largest of these warships are less than 600 feet long, however, whereas even SW Dreadnaughts are 600 metres long. Moreover the size difference is dwarfed by the technological differences.

However, the British fleet expanded significantly during these four years of war. But only by about 50% in real terms. Perhaps 100% if we were very generous (the numbers of Destroyers and light cruisers counting mainly toward this. We can't make statements about how many ships the Mon Cal could have built without an idea of the capacity of an industrialised power to increase its military might. The British developed several new classes of warship during the war, such as HMS Hood. I can see it taking several years to design a new warship.

However, that may be an innaccurate view. Here, on our Earth it takes several years to do all the testing and gather the approval. However, we're talking about single nation governments. The resources of whole planet governments could cut this time sharply. Although the bureaucracy could hold things up just as much as they are held up now.

On a separate note, don't forget this. On the one hand the SW galaxy is basically on a technological plateau for thousands of years. So we used to hear. On the other hand we have new ships popping out of the woodwork by the hour. Back to the other side and we find ISDs and enhanced X-wings zipping about in the NJO as if nobody had come up with aught better. Don't forget, the Imperial starfleet was at least 26,400 ISDs alone (24 per sector, and a further 10% kept in the Deep core as a reserve). Let alone support ships. It'd be easy for a galaxy with the resources to create such a fleet in the first place to make another, but not so sensible. Why bother updating ships when the old ones are fine?

Only when serious problems with old designs are revealed do admiralties typically change their building plans. Think of the Merrimac and the Monitor, HMS Dreadnought, the Imperial Japanese Navy's devastating Pearl Harbor attack with aircraft carriers. Many military theorists of the era had regarded aircraft carriers as just enhanced scouting units for a fleet.

Just to inject some humanity into an otherwise cold post, may I say that I hope everybody's happy today? Joy to you all happy

 

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Pelranius  6494 posts
Registered: Apr '03
6497_Kir Kanos
Date Posted: 1/21/04 8:31pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
With all this new NR stuff, wouldn't the Remnant have built ISD IIIs or something?

The weapons on a DSD could also be significantly better than the weapons on an ISD, turbolaser per turbolaser.

 

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Wes  675 posts
Registered: Oct '00
6878_Admiral Daala
Date Posted: 1/21/04 9:26pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
The Harbringer appeared in a novel by an author who had old source material and thought that the MC-80b was the top Mon Cal cruiser, so the author probably intented on the ship been a MC80b and referred to it as just a Mon Cal cruiser, since it was Garm's new flagship it would be in theory a new vessel, so it would be obviously a MC80b and it was just referred to as a Mon Cal cruiser since its class would be implied.

Despite this I think it is still okay to think that the Harbringer can be a Mediator or a Viscount. The Mediator is still a Mon Cal cruiser, just a more heavily armed and armoured version. Same with the Viscount, it is still a Mon Cal cruiser that is just of impressive size and power.

Hopefully a second NJOSB will be done and they will include the flagships of the top NRDF/GADF commanders. If they do I hope they make the Harbringer a Viscount, it wouldn't create any real problems if they do...or if they don't either!

 

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