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Author Topic: New Republic Capital Ships - still sorting out the mess... (Fleet Junkies- HO!)
Pelranius  6494 posts
Registered: Apr '03
6497_Kir Kanos
Date Posted: 1/21/04 9:32pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
They should also explain the Strident/Viscount contreversy and the fate of the Viscount.

 

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CaptainArdiff  1580 posts
Registered: Nov '99
6460_Stormtrooper<br>Look Sir, Donuts!
Date Posted: 1/21/04 9:35pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
We need more problems! Where would we be if we weren't here? Well, at 5:30 am in bed, maybe. Hmm, come to think of...zzzzz wink

 

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AdmiralNick22  6913 posts
Registered: May '03
7783_Ackbar
Date Posted: 1/21/04 10:08pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
I imagine that most Mon Calamari Star Cruisers in service by the end of the NJO were either MC-90's or Mediator class battlecruisers. I am sure that there were still some MC-80a and b variants in service, but that they are still fielded in far fewer numbers than the newer classes.

ThrawnMcEwok:

The Harbringer a sistership to Home One? Now I have heard it all. happy I still think she is a Mediator or MC-90.

Then theres the Vortex Wind. It is described as a heavy Mon Cal cruiser. Does that mean MC-90 or yet another variant?

In all, examples like this highlight the need for a new NJO sourcebook. I can't for the life of me figure out why WotC won't make one.

Is it just to piss us off?

--Adm. Nick

 

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President_Sharky  1191 posts
Registered: Jan '04
24212_Palpatine
Date Posted: 1/22/04 2:26pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
Wes: Whatever WJW might have possibly intended does not impact on what the Harbinger might be. He has not made a written statement on what he wanted that particular ship to be, so I think that it's free ground for us to come to our own conclusions about what Bel-Iblis' ship should be. The most logical choice, in my opinion is an MC90. As to Harbinger being a Viscount or Mediator, I have explained that ships of those classes are not cruisers, and that they are always referred to as Star Defenders or Mon Cal Battlecruisers, respectively. Plus, their speculated tonnage and firepower should put them above the cruiser class.

Ton G: I see your logic in stating that there should be more cruiser classes in the NR because of the appearance of the YV, but remember, that at the time of the Yald's appearance we are only about eight months into the war, and so it would probably be an older cruiser, because there wouldn't be enought time for any company (other than say KDY, which took until DW to finish the Republic-class) to design and mass produce any effective design. And eventhough many shipbuilders would want a hand in the warship market, the NR was probably still filling out New-class contracts and had a massive surplus of Dreadnoughts and MC80s just flying around, meaning that the demand for heavy cruisers probably just wasn't too big.

Typically we see two or three designs for a specific ship type. Just look at the gunship market, the Corellian type dominated all the way into TUF, its only replacement being the Warrior-class, and then the Ranger-class, which was brand new as of VP. That goes to show that both the GE and the NR managed themselves with a SINGLE gunship class, eventhough there should be an even larger amount of small ship classes in the midst of a galactic war, because they are the cheapest and easiest to mass produce.

Borleais : I do agree with you on the fact that the DSD is disproportionately difficult to build, I just wanted to point out to everyone that they are most likely not as rare as one might think. SotG seems to imply that they are kept in the Core to defend key worlds (a la MC90), meaning that they are not all attached to the Five Fleets.

 

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AdmiralNick22  6913 posts
Registered: May '03
7783_Ackbar
Date Posted: 1/22/04 2:53pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
Well, up until the Vong invasion, the Five Fleet were kept in the Core. In fact, unless a threat was deemed dangerous, the Five Fleets were not dispatched to settle ever little brush fire.

While I do believe that ships like the Defender and the MC-90 were still pretty common despite there costs, I don't beleive that the New Class eventually made up all Five Fleets. In fact, only the Fifth Fleet is ever described as containing the New Class.

Hell, look at the events that happen in the years following the BFC. We see far more Star Destroyers and Mon Cal cruisers in the Republic fleets than New Class.

Of course, even if only one of the five fleets contained the New Class, that does not mean that other NR formations of ships did not contain them. Remember, the Five Fleets only make up the strategic part of the NRDF. Many other task forces and fleets are stationed across the galaxy on permanent duties, like escort, patrol, planetary defense, etc.

The Five fleets were the so called "pieces" to move on the galactic chess board. happy


 

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Ton_G  3422 posts
Registered: Aug '02
6122_Bail Organa
Date Posted: 1/22/04 3:32pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
Ahem.....Dejarik...lol


As to the Yald being an older design, it is probably likely, however that doesn't leave room for much need Hypo Stats by Ton_G!

 

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President_Sharky  1191 posts
Registered: Jan '04
24212_Palpatine
Date Posted: 1/22/04 5:21pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess... - Date Edited: 1/22/04 5:29pm (1 edits total) Edited By: President_Sharky
ADM Nick: You bring up a good point but I believe that the New Class program began churning out ships very soon after EE. The EC only reports that the NSD/DSD was the last ship type to be christened, but ships like the Sacheen were already in service for several years. If KDY can build 25k ISDs in a decade or two in addition to hundreds of thousands of other ships, I would not put it past the NR shipyards to have, by the time of the BFC, already made thousands of Agaves, Sacheen, Warriors, Hajens, Majestic cruisers, Defender carriers, and perhaps even Endurances. The Fifth fleet is the was the first armada to be made up entirely of New Class ships, but the other four were most likely a mix of both New Class and older Mon Cal cruisers, ISDs, and other ships of the Imperial era. I also would not put it past the NR to station New Class vessels on the defence forces of planets like Coruscant, Kuat, Fondor, and other Core Worlds like Alsakan, Grizmallt, Duro, and Nubia. Having New Class ships on station on planetary defence forces would give us the reason why they have not, as of BFC, completely dominated the first 4 fleets or otherwise increased their size exponentially.

BTW, while re-reading the EC, I just came across this interesting fact about the Battle of Orinda:

There the Reaper destroyed most of Antilles's starfighters by annihilating the fleet carrier Endurance.


The time of the Battle of Orinda is 12.5 ABY, or six months after Darksaber. This would mean that the Endurance-class fleet carrier was in service a whole five years before the DSD/NSD, way before the creation of the Fifth Fleet.

If the Endurance is already in service, than the Sacheen-class light escort is also in service and perhaps most of the other smaller designs as well, meaning that there was plenty of time for the NR to build a lot of New Class ships.

 

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Pelranius  6494 posts
Registered: Apr '03
6497_Kir Kanos
Date Posted: 1/22/04 8:52pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
And they more or less stopped building the new Class after the peace treaty, but yet allowed individual member governments to build newer and better fleets, apparently forgetting the Caamas crisis.

 

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President_Sharky  1191 posts
Registered: Jan '04
24212_Palpatine
Date Posted: 1/22/04 9:36pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
I've seen no indication of such things taking place. If anything, the Republic has greatly expanded its navy in the post treaty years, New Class ships included.

 

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AdmiralNick22  6913 posts
Registered: May '03
7783_Ackbar
Date Posted: 1/22/04 10:15pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
Agreed.

In fact, as early as the Young Jedi Knight series we see that the NR is undergoing a major shipbuilding program.

I forget which book, but in it Ackbar is inspecting a bulk cruiser that is carrying advanced engines from Kuat for installation in a "new fleet of battleships."

Does anyone else think that means either Mediator class battlecruisers or Viscount class Star Defenders?

--Adm. Nick

 

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AdmiralNick22  6913 posts
Registered: May '03
7783_Ackbar
Date Posted: 1/23/04 7:30pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
Bump.

Because I said so!! tongue grin

 

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President_Sharky  1191 posts
Registered: Jan '04
24212_Palpatine
Date Posted: 1/23/04 8:04pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess... - Date Edited: 1/23/04 8:09pm (1 edits total) Edited By: President_Sharky
I think that that is a reasonable assumption ADM Nick happy

I would also think of that as a sign of collaboration between NR shipbuilders. Kuat may possibly be building propulsion systems for Mon Cal ships, perhaps a step forward in the Calamarian standardization of their warships. They may even be supplying parts to yards such as Kothlis for the BAC. However, this is only a far off theory based off one quote, the Kuati may be building their own new battleships (though we have seen no indication of any new KDY Battleships in the NJO, only the Republic cruiser).

 

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AdmiralNick22  6913 posts
Registered: May '03
7783_Ackbar
Date Posted: 1/23/04 9:41pm Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
President_Sharky:

A good hypothesis.

In fact, perhaps many of the main shipbuilding companies in the NR shared tech.

For instance, perhaps Mon Calamari shared some of their famous shield tech in the development of the New Class? Perhaps Corellian engines propel Bothan Assault cruisers.

As you said, it is only a guess on our part.

But I think it is a good one. happy

I will try to find with YJK book had that quote in it. Perhaps the ultimate destination of those Kuati parts is mentioned in the book.

BTW, I was thinking MC-90. I can't figure out why SotG says that the ship is not very common. For instance, the MC-90 was not only the first standardized Mon Cal warships, but it was also described as the first Mon Cal warship that could be produced at other shipyards. I forget the source, but I believe that it mentioned that Sulis Van and Hast were capable of building MC-90's.

My point is, the MC-90 must of been common. Heres my reasoning. Firstly, we see many Star Cruisers in service from the time after the BFC to the begining of the NJO. For example, in the Hand of Thrawn Dulogy, Moff Disra makes a remark along the lines of "I bet if we did that the NR would send 40 Star Cruisers after us". I take that line as a example that Star Cruisers are very common in the NRDF. Problem is, I find it hard to believe that most of the Star Cruisers in the NRDF were MC-80a or b.

My personal opinion is that until the introduction of the Mediator class battlecruiser and the Viscount class Star Defender that the MC-90 was the most common Star Cruiser in the fleet. By the end of NJO, I still believe that it is a main part of the fleet, even though these new vessels may outperform it.

Any thoughts?

--Adm. Nick

 

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Pelranius  6494 posts
Registered: Apr '03
6497_Kir Kanos
Date Posted: 1/24/04 1:58am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
Well, perhaps Ackbar was inspecting those parts because they were meant to be exported to the Remnant or Hapes (though the Imperials could build their own engines, I'm sure)

Undoubtably meant for Mon Calamari, if in the NR, as why else would Ackbar of all people be looking at a shipment of warship engines if it was meant for another system than his own?

The MC-90 might be as common as the ISDII was in Imperial fleets post Endor?

BTW, has there been any confirmed improvements on the venerable ISD line or introduction of new battlecruisers for the Imperials?

 

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Borleias  918 posts
Registered: Dec '03
6289_A-Wing
Date Posted: 1/24/04 3:09am Subject: RE: New Republic capital ships [Black Fleet to NJO] - sorting out the mess...
Borleais : I do agree with you on the fact that the DSD is disproportionately difficult to build, I just wanted to point out to everyone that they are most likely not as rare as one might think. SotG seems to imply that they are kept in the Core to defend key worlds (a la MC90), meaning that they are not all attached to the Five Fleets.


Given their short endurance, perhaps a point defence role like that may be truly best for them.

 
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