Jedi Council Forums - Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder

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Author	Topic: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
AdmiralNick22 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 4/3/04 8:44pm Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	Well, during that two or three month period I am sure that his second in command was in charge of the military. Or perhaps the post was left vacant for the time being. --Adm. Nick -----signature----- Fleet Junkie Founding Father Official Greatest Admiral Ackbar Fan "A peaceful Galactic Alliance is the strongest pillar of a peaceful galaxy." - Luke Skywalker "I will surrender, Admiral, when I can no longer fight!" - Admiral Gar Stazi A New Hope
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jedijcm Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 4/4/04 1:41am Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	who is the most high ranking groung general in the alliance?
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jedijcm Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 4/4/04 3:36am Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	edit:groung-ground
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JoruusCbaoth Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 4/4/04 11:26am Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	During the pre-Endor years, probably General Rikeean, given that he was tasked with running the Hoth base. Dodonna was probably up there, but he fell into Imperial hands during the evac of Yavin. Madine seemed to be in charge of special forces rather than the Rebellion as a whole. -----signature----- Orignal Fleet Junkie
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jedijcm Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 4/4/04 11:54am Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	what about the galactic alliance?
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AdmiralNick22 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 4/4/04 12:09pm Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder - Date Edited: 4/4/04 12:10pm (1 edits total) Edited By: AdmiralNick22
	During the Rebellion: Admiral Ackbar: Commander, Alliance Fleet General Crix Madine: Commander, Special Forces General Jan Dodonna: Commander, Starfighter Command General Carlist Reikeen: Commnader, Sector Command These four men were the top commanders in the Alliance, with Mon Mothma being the overall Commander in Chief. Ackbar commanded all fleet and spacegoing forces. Madine commanded all special forces units. Dodonna commanded all starfighter units, but was technically under Ackbar's command. Reikeen was put in charge of overseeing all sector commands and organizing them. He was given this job after he commanded Echo Base on Hoth. After the founding of the New Republic, the entire military was put under the command of Admiral Ackbar, who became the first Supreme Commander of the New Republic Defense Force, as well as retaining his old title of commander of the Alliance Fleet. Madine continued to command the Special Forces. General Reikeen was put in charge of Coruscants planetary defenses. Jan Dodonna was captured by the Empire but when he was freed he became an advisor of military strategy to the Defense Force. To this day, there is no offical word on who commanded the Alliance ground forces. One possibility is Bren Tantor, but to my knowledge that was never confirmed. One must also remember that the Rebel Alliance did not have a large offical army. Most groud troops were the responsibility of the various sector commands. Hope this helps. --Adm. Nick -----signature----- Fleet Junkie Founding Father Official Greatest Admiral Ackbar Fan "A peaceful Galactic Alliance is the strongest pillar of a peaceful galaxy." - Luke Skywalker "I will surrender, Admiral, when I can no longer fight!" - Admiral Gar Stazi A New Hope
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jedijcm Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 4/4/04 2:39pm Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	yeah thanks!
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CaptainArdiff Registered: Nov '99	Date Posted: 4/4/04 3:37pm Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	Ah, sorry if my last post was somewhat flippant, didn't mean to denigrate anybody in any way. I also seem to recall that it was in the early morning when I posted. Hope I caused no offence; I'll attempt to atone with a serious analysis of the problem now. I notice that there's confusion over military ranks. That partly prompted my last. In several EU works Commanders are supposed to outrank Captains. In every military branch on Earth it isn't possible. The confusion seems to arise because authors get confused about different branches of the military. Typical Navy Rank System (part): Sub-Lieutenant Lieutenant Lt-Commander Commander Captain Commodore USAF Rank System (part): 2nd Lieutenant Lieutenant Captain Major Lieutenant-Colonel Colonel RAF Rank System (part): Pilot Officer Flying Officer Flight Lieutenant Squadron Leader Wing Commander Group Captain I have highlighted the rank of Captain in two of these rank charts because it is the root of the problem. SW authors typically use the USAF rank system for fighter pilots. Yet the rank Commander turns up, too. Commander isn't an USAF rank, but a RAF (if the word "Wing" is missing) or Navy rank. Now, there are those who posit that SW ranks are not the same as Earth ranks, and for those people my arguments will have no force, and I advise they not read any further, since my points won't convince, and it'd be a waste of thy time. If you've started reading this sentence, then ask yourself whether you vigorously support the premise that in SW a commander must outrank a captain. If you do, then please take a few hours (before reading the rest of this) to familiarise yourself with various nations' military ranks. Tech Comm has some, and a quick google search will turn up some more. For those who believe that SW is capable of being reconciled with reality I present the following. The point has been made (I fear I forget its originator, so sorry for not giving due credit) that a (Fighter) Wing Commander would outrank both Navy and Army Lieutenants. There is also the suggestion that a (Wing) Commander (Airforce) would outrank a Captain-Lieutenant (Navy). This would probably require the insertion of a rank into the system. Captain-Lieutenant in the Imperial German Navy at the end of WWI was equal to a Lt-Cdr in the RN. I have no objection to this theory, and it's the best solution to the flaws in the EU sources. Let's consider why the SW rank system is confused. Commanders outrank not only Lieutenants, but also Captains. In the USAF commanders don't exist, so couldn't outrank either. In the Navy Captains outrank commanders. In the RAF rank system a Wing Commander is subordinate to a Group Captain. In all three cases a "Captain" either outranks a "Commander" or there isn't a rank of "Commander" that could outrank a "Captain" in that branch of the service. A Commander in the Navy or a Wing Commander in the RAF rank system outrank a Captain in the Army or USAF rank system. The problem is that there's no coherent separation of branches of service. I must agree with Saxton that if there is any conjoining of units, it's where Fleet units and Fighter units share a rank system. Imperial Army units often had difficulty obtaining a full fighter wing for the bases, and made do with a truncated 40-fighter wing, compared to the ISD's standard 72. Now, one could argue that this only applies to Imp units, but for the films. In the films Rebel units have RAF sytle call-signs like Green Leader, Red Leader. This applies throughout the trilogy, sadly messing up the idea that the Rebellion has a mixed system of Navy, Army and Fighter ranks. Yet that's one of the best fixes for the mess in the books. The only way to fix it is to posit the theory that the Rebels had a major reorganisation between Endor and the X-wing Series (beginning, what, 2.5 years after Endor?) because of an influx of recruits from existing armed forces with a great variety in ranks. Feasible, but ugly...sadly. Anyway, I hope that makes up for any apparent disrespect I may have seemed to demonstrate earlier -----signature----- Blame Thande! www.alternatehistory.com/discussion
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JoruusCbaoth Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 4/4/04 5:25pm Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	Here's a little info from the Imperial sourcebook on Army organization. Surface Marshal: Sector Army High General: Systems Army General: Army Major General: Corps High Colonel: Battlegroup (replaced division) Lt. Colonel: Regiment Major: Battalion Captain: Company Lieutenant: Platoon Sergeant: Squad And the Navy: High Admiral: Sector Group Fleet Admiral: Fleet Systems Admiral (aka Commodore) Systems Force Admiral: Squadron Line Captain: Line -----signature----- Orignal Fleet Junkie
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Pellaeon-Firke Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 4/4/04 6:19pm Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	Where does Cracken fit in to this if Madine is Supreme Intelligence Commander when he dies? Isn't General Riekkan (sp?) Minister of State at one point? And why are the Wraiths in Intel if they obviously should be in Special Forces? Plus, Riekkan certainly wasn't running Coruscant's defenses, at least not during TTT with Drayson, and that gave the impression that he'd been doing it for awhile. Also, since Pellaeon is a Vice Admiral (a U.S. Navy rank), are there rear admirals, and 5-star admirals, and all that great stuff. The same question applies for Major General Covell. -----signature----- "I am Revan, greater than all of you clowns. Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. I am all things, and yet I am nothing. In the end I belong to neither the light nor the darkness. And I will forever stand alone." --Genghis12 Gone from 6/20 to 8/8 SFD Judge.
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AdmiralNick22 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 4/4/04 6:29pm Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	Well.... Reikeen was in charge of Coruscant's ground defenses. Admiral Drayson was in charge of the Home Fleet. Eventaully Reikeen does become Minister of State. After that, he becomes head of New Republic Intelligence. Drayson eventually leaves Fleet Command and heads up Alpha Blue. Cracken was head of NRI up until the Black Fleet Crisis, IIRC. After the BFC, he regains his old post. Drayson, Reikeen, Madine, and Cracken all changed jobs several times. --Adm. Nick -----signature----- Fleet Junkie Founding Father Official Greatest Admiral Ackbar Fan "A peaceful Galactic Alliance is the strongest pillar of a peaceful galaxy." - Luke Skywalker "I will surrender, Admiral, when I can no longer fight!" - Admiral Gar Stazi A New Hope
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Pellaeon-Firke Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 4/4/04 6:53pm Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder - Date Edited: 4/4/04 6:55pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Pellaeon-Firke
	So what's the difference between Madine's job at his death and cracken's during the x-wing series? Or is a better way to look at it that Drayson was head of the FBI (Alpha Blue), Cracken is the CIA, and Madine is their superior? And where do the wraiths fit? Also, during Wedge's Gamble, they don't say much about ground troops, unlike in Rogue Squadron at Borleias, and their certainly wasn't a ground battle, so why have a Space Force Commander and an Army Commander? It doesn't add up. -----signature----- "I am Revan, greater than all of you clowns. Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. I am all things, and yet I am nothing. In the end I belong to neither the light nor the darkness. And I will forever stand alone." --Genghis12 Gone from 6/20 to 8/8 SFD Judge.
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AdmiralNick22 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 4/4/04 7:07pm Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	Madine I am not sure about. During the BFC, General Reikeen was the head of NRI. Alpha Blue is a secret part of NRI, known only to the Chief of State, Supreme Commander, and a handful of other top people. Cracken headed NRI up until the BFC, when Reikeen took over. After that, Cracken became the head of NRI again. Alot of this comes form the early days of the EU, when things like this were not always done well by the authors. --Adm. Nick -----signature----- Fleet Junkie Founding Father Official Greatest Admiral Ackbar Fan "A peaceful Galactic Alliance is the strongest pillar of a peaceful galaxy." - Luke Skywalker "I will surrender, Admiral, when I can no longer fight!" - Admiral Gar Stazi A New Hope
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Reaper63 Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 4/4/04 8:31pm Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	when was Alpha Blue mentioned? I don't recognize it. And your right, alot of what was written first wasn't well organized, and it was very flip floppy. I also don't think there is much EU after TTT that is VERY good. some decent stories, but nothing stand out. I will clarify saying that I have never read any of the NJO, and don't plan on it. so, if there are good stories there, More power to those who want to read them. As for Wraith Squadron, they are part of New Republic Intel after the End of Solo Command becuase they are a secial type of Special ops team. Sometimes these types are called infiltrators. They are very good at infiltrating the enemy, and for sometime operating as one of the enemy. Such as their work as Hawkbats, and as the crew of the Caller before that. These are traditionally Intel operations. Thus, General Cracken scooped up the team after the last book. Hope that helps. -----signature----- Ed I'm not the mechanic here, Ironsides! I mostly just hurt people! IC-6369
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JoruusCbaoth Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 4/5/04 12:18am Subject: RE: Starfighter / Fleet Command and Army Ranking ladder
	Pellaeon-Firke For what it's worth, the US Navy and Royal Navy have a similar ranking system, with the primary differences being in arrangement of words rather than different grades. Ensign is not used in the RN, midshipman is used instead, but LT. J.G. is equal to a British Sub-Lieutenant, and the US Fleet Admiral equals Admiral of the Fleet in the RN. I don't believe there are any Admirals of the Fleet still alive in the UK, but I'm sure that none of the men given their fifth star in the US are still alive. To elaborate on my above post, while it's good to have some concrete info on the Imperial order of battle, the ordering system is somewhat problematic. What exactly is a High Colonel? Compare to the US structure here There are some pretty important differences here. There are even greater differences between the Imperial Navy structure and pretty much any other Navy the world has ever seen, so a comparison there is nigh impossible. -----signature----- Orignal Fleet Junkie
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