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Author	Topic: Journey Through the EU: Disc. Heart of Fire
Rogue1-and-a-half Title: Manager: Amphitheatre Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 7/21/05 2:32pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	Well, In a strictly manichean world view, which is, essentially, the worldview of Star Wars, evil is evil and you eradicate it. I'm just saying that, in the real world, we would lock someone up for killing someone who had been exonerated in court. Especially if they said that they knew the person was guilty because their respective deity told them so. I'm not against mysticism. I count myself a mystic. To be honest, I can see both sides. But I hold that this is essentially a troubling story because it raises the debate in my mind of rightful murder outside the law. That's one of the reasons I ranked the story so highly: two and a half stars. To discuss the rightness and wrongness perhaps falls out of the boundaries of this forum. Regardless of all this, I simply question the moral correctness of killing someone because your deity tells you to after the highest law of the land has exonerated them of all blame. Sure, as in this story or as in the example of Mace facing down Palpatine, you'll occasionally kill someone who deserves it. But I think you'll probably kill a whole lot more who don't. And that gives me pause. Maybe you think that the innocents who would have to die under this unstable system is just part of the price of justice. If so, then you come out on the side of vigilantism. I'm just honestly unsure if I do or not. -----signature----- Don't be a fool, don't be blind Heart of mine If you can't do the time, don't do the crime Heart of mine
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 7/21/05 2:40pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	The great irony is Rogue that you're NOT wrong in this case. However, you aren't necessarily right either. The Jedi Knighthood's first loyalty is to the Force and quite frankly in this world, there's a great deal more ready and effective communication with it than the occasionally nebulous relationship mystics have with God. They serve the principles of the Republic which SUPPOSEDLY also hold them in check. However, the Jedi like all people, have to choose what is the best way to serve their master. Mace committed an act of murder for the greater cause of Justice. Luke Skywalker freed a man guilty of genocide to make him a Jedi. The Jedi's actions SHOULD be questionable....they're not necessarily wrong in either case though or out of character.
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Rogue1-and-a-half Title: Manager: Amphitheatre Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 7/21/05 7:26pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	From the literary standpoint, I agree. I'd hate to have, at the center of a saga, a group of people who do no wrong. I think you're right that their actions need to be questionable. Again, that's why I didn't ratethis story as low as most. I think it's one of the better Tales stories, specifically because it does raise uncomfortable issues. What I do resent is when I try to bring things up like this and people just repeat by rote how what the Jedi did must be right. I think not. Connection to the Force or not, I think they're pretty basically (across the eras) an ineffectual, loosely governed group of infighting, navel gazing men and women who just happen to keep being heroes, less for their own qualities than for the will of the Force. It's the same problem Bane sees in the Sith: "The Force that abides in many vessels is spread thin." When the Jedi get together they can fling Star Destroyers right out of a system! What does this prove? Simply this: they rarely do get together. Like most religions, they're broken down by their doctrinal and personal differences and rarely cooperate in any reasonable way. I think this holds true whether you're talking about the ineffectual philosophies of Master Arca, the wimpy Council of the prequels or Luke's experimental Academy (I refuse to use the word 'praexeum'). From a literary standpoint, I don't have a problem with this. I think it makes the saga more complex. THe problem comes in when people seemingly fail to realize that the Jedi are the lily white heroes they seem to think they are. This is less a problem with the EU and more a problem with the EU fan. I don't think it is supportable from the EU that the Jedi are perfect. But some EU fans seem to think they should be. Even worse, some seem to think they are. -----signature----- Don't be a fool, don't be blind Heart of mine If you can't do the time, don't do the crime Heart of mine
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Rogue1-and-a-half Title: Manager: Amphitheatre Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 7/25/05 7:46pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	L’il Maul in Hate Leads to Lollipops – Jay Stevens This short (very short!) story can be found in the Star Wars Tales, Vol. 3 collection. The benefit of the Tales series was that it allowed, under the Infinities label, the authors and to a lesser extent the artists to go pretty crazy and do things that were wildly different from what was generally expected. People couldn’t get mad, because it wasn’t canon, it was Infinities. Ironically, some of the goofiest and most experimental stories from the Tales series are the ones that have become part of my personal canon. And this wacky little story, only four pages long, details a young Maul’s escape from the Happy Nerf Herder Maximum Security Home for Wayward Boys (amid a massive explosion) and his ensuing hijinks, including slamming a speeder board into the head of a Yareal Poof like fellow, stealing a Jedi’s lightsaber and using it to slide down the side of a building and crashing at the feet of a certain Senator we all know and love. It’s all for the moment when Palpatine jams a huge lollipop in Maul’s mouth. And a beautiful friendship is born. In short, this story is incredibly brief, incredibly wacky, ridiculously drawn and utterly stupid. And I love it. It’s far preferable than the fifty-seventh story about Mace Windu doing something mysterious and cool or yet another Boba Fett story. Different can be good and it certainly is here. out of ** stars. -----signature----- Don't be a fool, don't be blind Heart of mine If you can't do the time, don't do the crime Heart of mine
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RK_Striker_JK_5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 7/25/05 7:51pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	Rogue1-and-a-half posted: L’il Maul in Hate Leads to Lollipops – Jay Stevens This short (very short!) story can be found in the Star Wars Tales, Vol. 3 collection. The benefit of the Tales series was that it allowed, under the Infinities label, the authors and to a lesser extent the artists to go pretty crazy and do things that were wildly different from what was generally expected. People couldn’t get mad, because it wasn’t canon, it was Infinities. Ironically, some of the goofiest and most experimental stories from the Tales series are the ones that have become part of my personal canon. And this wacky little story, only four pages long, details a young Maul’s escape from the Happy Nerf Herder Maximum Security Home for Wayward Boys (amid a massive explosion) and his ensuing hijinks, including slamming a speeder board into the head of a Yareal Poof like fellow, stealing a Jedi’s lightsaber and using it to slide down the side of a building and crashing at the feet of a certain Senator we all know and love. It’s all for the moment when Palpatine jams a huge lollipop in Maul’s mouth. And a beautiful friendship is born. In short, this story is incredibly brief, incredibly wacky, ridiculously drawn and utterly stupid. And I love it. It’s far preferable than the fifty-seventh story about Mace Windu doing something mysterious and cool or yet another Boba Fett story. Different can be good and it certainly is here. out of ** stars. I did love that tale. So goofy and irreverant. -----signature----- E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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The2ndQuest Title: Manager: -Literature -LACWAC -Games Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 7/25/05 10:01pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project - Date Edited: 7/29 9:00pm (1 edits total) Edited By: The2ndQuest
	People couldn’t get mad, because it wasn’t canon, it was Infinities. Ironically, people also got mad because of that same reason *It’s all for the moment when Palpatine jams a huge lollipop in Maul’s mouth. And a beautiful friendship is born. And let the innuendo begin... -----signature----- "When your future self tells you to do something, YOU DO IT." K'Kruhk, 140 ABY:"Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker? Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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Rogue1-and-a-half Title: Manager: Amphitheatre Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 7/26/05 7:39pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	George R. Binks – Tony Millionaire This story is available in the Tales, Vol. 5 And the subtitle is “The Tragic Story of Jar Jar’s Father.” This is one of those great stories that truly takes advantage of the opportunity to just go crazy in every way. First off, it’s drawn in some sort of melodramatic, old fashioned, sepia toned style. I like it. Anyway, Jar Jar’s father, George, is a whaler and Jar Jar causes a ship wreck. This seems exactly the kind of story I wouldn’t like, but I find it hilarious. I like the idea of Gungans actually being intelligent. Jar Jar, it seems, is just some kind of mentally challenged idiot. I’m sorry, it might not be politically correct, but I love it. “La la la hee hee la la lala whee!” SLAP* “NITWIT!” I’m just rolling on the floor. This is great. This gets my vote as best series of panels in comic books history: Panel 1: Jar Jar tooting into a seashell as George looks on with gritted teeth. Panel 2: George, a single tear slipping down his face, holding a pistol to his own head. Panel 3: George’s wife pleads, “You have so much to live for.” Panel 4: “Think of your son . . .” Panel 5: BLAM!! If only for being so incredibly tacky, this story gets my vote. I knew when I read the title that it was either going to be a new low or one of the funniest of the series. It turned out to be the latter. A classic. 1/2 out of ** stars. -----signature----- Don't be a fool, don't be blind Heart of mine If you can't do the time, don't do the crime Heart of mine
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Rogue1-and-a-half Title: Manager: Amphitheatre Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 7/28/05 7:05pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	44 Years Before ANH: The real world timeline analogy to this year is 1931. Aurra’s Song (Flashback only) – Deam R. Motter This one was apparently printed in something called Girls Rule. I don’t know what that is and I can’t find it. The Rising Force – Dave Wolverton Prior to this, we’ve been hitting pretty sparse patches, with a lot of empty years. At this point, the timeline becomes much more cluttered. And not in a good way. This book starts the Jedi Apprentice series, which details the training of Obi-Wan by Qui-Gon. This introduces a whole cast of one-dimensional characters that have, for some unaccountable reason, become incredibly popular and inspired some of the worst fanfiction of all time. Bant alone should be shot. Okay, can we all agree that “Oafy” is probably the stupidest insulting nickname of all time? I’m not sure I get the Jedi having a branch of their service dedicated to Agriculture. I’m just not sure I get that. I like the way they set up very vaguely that Qui-Gon has had a bad experience with a padawan before and so doesn’t want another. So, the initial set up is that Qui-Gon doesn’t want a padawan and Obi-Wan wants to be his padawan. This sets the tone for their whole relationship which seems to be one long argument. By pure chance (could it be the WILL OF THE FORCE?) they end up on the same ship together. There’s some sort of a vague conflict set up that has to do with the conflict that Qui-Gon is going to mediate. It introduces three or four characters who will carry over from this book into the next one. Given that these guys have zero impact on the saga and aren’t interesting, we’re not going to dignify them by calling them recurring characters. Action sequences are this books forte, not surprising since it was written by Dave Wolverton, who also wrote the bombastic and wildly entertaining Courtship of Princess Leia. This book is nowhere near as entertaining, but there is a nice pirate raid and a fine climactic battle between the Jedi and some predatory birds. And, as always with this series, a nice tie in to the next book, this cliffhanger promising more information about Qui-Gon’s previous padawan. A nice ending. On the whole, a nice, quick and easy read. Pretty painless, but nothing to really distinguish it. Also, as I said before about Legacy of the Jedi, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are interesting characters. You wish a better author was telling this story, one who could really get inside their heads and make them breathe. -----signature----- Don't be a fool, don't be blind Heart of mine If you can't do the time, don't do the crime Heart of mine
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 7/28/05 7:08pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	*I’m not sure I get the Jedi having a branch of their service dedicated to Agriculture. I’m just not sure I get that. Well terraforming, foodstuffs, and rebuilding post damaged societies is important. Power of the Jedi also has them have a Medical branch and scouting core.
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Rogue1-and-a-half Title: Manager: Amphitheatre Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 7/29/05 9:07pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	The Dark Rival – Jude Watson And the series goes over to Jude Watson, the author who will churn out about a bajillion books in this series, another series about Obi and Ani and is currently working on a new series called, I think,. Secrets of the Jedi. Someone stop her before she writes again! These books really read better than they should because I hear Liam Neeson saying all the lines in that great voice of his. Watson manages, to some degree, to get into Qui-Gon’s head and portray his guilt and ambivalence toward Xanatos, but this book is frustrating because you keep thinking how well a really and truly great author could have done it. This book does continue the plot set up in the last one, but again, none of these people are important or interesting, so we’ll not mention them. Xanatos is really the only important character introduced in this book. I’ll say this for Watson . . . there is just no talent for comic relief here. Just none at all. An interesting bit where Qui-Gon realizes that he’s begun to care about Obi-Wan, even though he swore he wouldn’t allow that to happen. As we knew he would, Qui-Gon accepts Obi-Wan as his Padawan at the end of this book. Predictable as it is, it does feel rather emotional and I do like the last line of the book: We have a long way to go . . . *Sadly, most of that way will be poorly written with only flashes of the kind of emotional resonance that should set this series apart. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: had this series been written by a truly talented writer, it would have been awesome. As it is, it’s simply mediocre. -----signature----- Don't be a fool, don't be blind Heart of mine If you can't do the time, don't do the crime Heart of mine
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ThrawnRocks Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 7/30/05 11:23am Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	Rogue1-and-a-half posted: The Dark Rival – Jude Watson *And the series goes over to Jude Watson NNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! -----signature----- My Icons: http://www.powow.com/thrawnrocks/icons.html Roan Fel's badassery knows no bounds. "The next Allston book should be all Syal and Myri, all the time." - Jello
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Mastadge Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 7/30/05 12:19pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	Rogue1-and-a-half posted: *These books really read better than they should because I hear Liam Neeson saying all the lines in that great voice of his. He's also voicing Aslan in TLTW&TW movie. I liked the first few of Jude Watson's books, I think through #8, at which point I got wise to the fact that they're all the same and came to dread each new one and its mediocrity. -----signature----- "This will be our reply to violence: To make music more intensely, More beautifully, More devotedly than ever before." - Leonard Bernstein
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Rogue1-and-a-half Title: Manager: Amphitheatre Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 8/1/05 8:24pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	The Hidden Past – Jude Watson Third book in the Jedi Apprentice series. This book begins with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan leaving on their first official mission together as Master and Padawan. On the way to their first mission, they’re hijacked by a character introduced in the last book who has a dilemma he needs help with. This is the character, by the way, who inspired me to mention in the previous review that Watson had little talent for comic relief. Yes, folks, he’s back! His schtick, by the way, is saying something outrageous and then saying, “Not so, I lie.” Are you laughing yet? Yeah, me neither. I’m seriously going to keep count and see just how horribly Watson runs this one into the ground. Seriously. Chapter 5: Five uses of the gag wherein Guerra says something and then says, “Not so,” and takes it back. Five – five. That’s convenient, if irritating as hell. Only once in chapter six. That’s good. Once in chapter seven. Chapter eight has a resurgance. Four times, two of those in the same paragraph! Chapter nine: four times. Okay, chapter ten, a four page chapter, features the same joke three times. I’m tired of this and I think I’ve made my point. Okay, there’s a moment of real emotion here when a brainwashed family member of one of the supporting characters is killed, but manages to regain her memories before she dies. I was shocked to find myself actually choking up. Wow. One of the strengths of this series is its linear nature. In the first book, we introduced a set of characters who were also in the second book. In the second book, they introduced a character who is also in this book and in this book, they introduce the villain from the fourth book. I like that. A nice bit when Obi-Wan poses as a visiting prince and when one of the villains calls him an imposter, the other villains kill the villain who recognizes Obi-Wan, thanks to Obi-Wan’s bluff. I love the ending gag where Obi-Wan says that he stood up to torture because of the rock that Qui-Gon gave him. He didn’t realize that the stone was a Force artifact, Obi says. A force artifact, Qui Gon responds. I thought it was just a pretty rock. On the whole, this book is a bit better than the first two. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are growing into their relationship and the plot is a bit more baroque here. As well, there is, as I mentioned that beautiful moment of real and powerful emotion. Better than average. I’ve been forgetting to do my star ratings on these last few . . . I’ll try to remember from here on out. On the whole: ½ out of ** stars. -----signature----- Don't be a fool, don't be blind Heart of mine If you can't do the time, don't do the crime Heart of mine
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Rogue1-and-a-half Title: Manager: Amphitheatre Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 8/2/05 7:56pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	Mythology – Chris Eliopolous This short comic can be found in the compilation, Star Wars Tales, Vol. 4. This one has an interesting opening where a shadowy figure that resembles Vader appears and then reveals itself to be Qui-Gon, the shape of his cowl, in silhouette resembling Vader’s helmet. It’s an atmospheric moment, but, after you think about it for a minute, you just wonder what the hell it’s supposed to mean. One major sticking point here: the art just sucks. Everyone looks stupid. In this one, Qui-Gon tells Obi-Wan a fable that explains why the Jedi Order forbids marriage and/or emotion. The story itself is pretty trite, two twins who fall for the same girl (gee, really?!), they end up accidentally killing their master when he steps into stop their fight, blah blah, and that is how the star that you see in the sky came to be and some say they still fight to this day. Sheesh. To some degree, I suppose this serves as character development for Qui and Obi (getting tired of typing those hyphens), but it’s pretty unnecessary. We’ll get all this from the JA series later. * out of **** stars. -----signature----- Don't be a fool, don't be blind Heart of mine If you can't do the time, don't do the crime Heart of mine
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 8/2/05 8:10pm Subject: RE: Journey Through the EU: A Retrospective Project
	I think that alludes to the fact that Qui Gon is the herald of Vader and unknowingly the "wisdom" he and the Jedi order are what brings about the Dark Lord of the Sith. Either that or just its a really cool momment. The benefits of the books to me are largely the fact that they are closed and rarely have lingering plot threads. The books are a return to the Bantam series where basically the heroes got to be heroes. We get great insight into the Jedi Knighthood just by seeing the scale of the threats they deal with on a day to day basis. They're not as mature a book as they could but I frankly am glad there's someone who remembers that Star Wars is meant to be family entertainment. Even so, things like Melida/Daan arc while tackling subject matter that could have been longer in a more 'serious' book, nevertheless are handled well I think.
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