Jedi Council Forums - "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)

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Author	Topic: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
Super_Battle_Droid Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 4/12/06 5:06pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86) - Date Edited: 4/12/06 5:36pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Super_Battle_Droid
	Endnotes Part II are Up! Goes to read! http://blogs.starwars.com/abelgpena/55 EDIT: Awesome read, thanks Halagad! -----signature----- "Sir, over there, the Jedi is escaping." - Battle Droid "Not likely." - Super Battle Droid "Open this door and I'll buy you a planet!" - Viceroy Nute Gunray.
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Thrawn McEwok Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 4/12/06 5:26pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	Now I'm confused... I assume Quarmall is killed in General Grievous #1, as stated explicitly at Wookieepedia; but Abel acquired his name from an older source, Star Wars Gamemaster Screens... and the Unofficial Encyclopedia, presumably basing its info off the same source, says he was captured, brainwashed, and remained active after Endor... Whuh? - The Imperial Ewok -----signature----- A/T = OTP :===8[#]8===: Kyp/Jaina fans: stand up and be counted!
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Rogue_Follower Title: Manager: • Lit Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 4/12/06 5:29pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	IIRC, he's one of those character names that has multiple "story options" to go with it. I guess Abel chose the options that CUSWE didn't.
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Thrawn McEwok Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 4/12/06 5:33pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	Rogue Follower posted: IIRC, he's one of those character names that has multiple "story options" to go with it. I guess Abel chose the options that CUSWE didn't. Makes sense - thanks! Halagad_Ventor posted: Are you asking me? Do you want me to answer that? FTeik posted: About Sevrance'Tann i would prefer her to originate from the Sith-stronghold of Thule and not the Chiss-Ascendancy. Isn't she canonically from Csilla, though? I rather like the way that the name "Sev'rance" matches "Ar'alani" in style... And, any more backstory on that Chiss on the Jedi Council just before RotS? - The Imperial Ewok -----signature----- A/T = OTP :===8[#]8===: Kyp/Jaina fans: stand up and be counted!
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AdmiralWesJanson Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/12/06 6:16pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	Rogue_Follower posted: The podrace in the dust was really amazing. We really worried about you looking at so many people were retired during the race. Order 66: The Jedi are Retired! -----signature----- Duke of Corellia Join the Corellian Browncoats in their fight against the evil Alliance! Fix the K-Wing! No more XJs! Make the next X-Wing a T-65K!
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sabarte Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 4/12/06 8:41pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	Sev'rance was in a military academy on Csilla as per Clone Campaigns, and presumably served at one point in the CEDF or some infantry branch of same. Perhaps very highly placed;McEwok and I were discussing the name, and the fact that the other two-part Chiss name we see is that of a admiral who's renounced family affiliation due to being in the high command. The way the Tann's stuck onto the end might indicate it's added later; Vandalor's Thulish family name, maybe? Since Force-sensitivity is unknown among Chiss as of Outbound Flight, it's quite possible that the discussion of the existance of such powers among the Chiss military establishment after Thrawn's almost-punkage in Outbound Flight made Sev'rance realize she was like that and seek training, maybe for the benefit of the Chiss, maybe for her own benefit. Since Sidious was somewhat complicit in her arrival(NEC, I think), it'd have to be after Outbound Flight. She then becomes part of Dooku's astonishingly extensive collection of psychopathic chick apprentices. Quite...aggressive...for a Chiss.
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Halagad_Ventor Title: - Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 4/13/06 1:50am Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	Thrawn McEwok posted: It's like... Bardan and Kyle... We've finished the basic outline and will be submitting it for approval this week. Sauron_18 posted: Does anyone know if we will ever see a completely exposed Kaleesh face? Or will it be among those things like Yoda's species, Sidious' beginning, etc.. Yet another of the illustrations Joe and I discussed. Shame, shame. Rogue_Follower posted: In true, "All your base are belong to us" and "The truck have started to move" style, I present Dear Anakin (translated from Aurebesh by the kind eddie1969): This was awesome, Rogue. Pass on my thanks to eddie. kecen posted: ...I should make a remark about a lake, but er.....is this boob armor or not? Because it sure looks like it. I wanted your answer on this question since I don't have many people to discuss it with.... http://www.genreonline.net/Genre_files/grievous.jpg Yes. ...and I believe that's what Grievous actually calls it. Take care, Abel -----signature----- Abel G. Peña: http://www.abelgpena.com Star Wars Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/abelgpena Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/abelgpena Second Prophet of the Church of Waru Recipient of a monstrosity known as a Mandalorian Ewok™
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Halagad_Ventor Title: - Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 4/13/06 12:13pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	Super_Battle_Droid posted: Endnotes Part II are Up! Goes to read! http://blogs.starwars.com/abelgpena/55 EDIT: Awesome read, thanks Halagad! Welcome. Thrawn McEwok posted: Now I'm confused... I assume Quarmall is killed in General Grievous #1, as stated explicitly at Wookieepedia; but Abel acquired his name from an older source, Star Wars Gamemaster Screens... and the Unofficial Encyclopedia, presumably basing its info off the same source, says he was captured, brainwashed, and remained active after Endor... Whuh? Basically what Rogue said. IIRC, the options for Quarmall in that adventure hook were A)the PCs find a Jedi Knight who calls himself Quarmall who's the actual Quarmall, brainwashed by Palp, B)the PCs find a Force-strong guy working for Palp who calls himself Quarmall but is in fact a phony, or C)the PCs encounter a guy named Quarmall who is the actual Quarmall and is still on the good side. Continuity-wise, the only available option would now be B. Thrawn McEwok posted: Do you want me to answer that? Haven't you? Thrawn McEwok posted: And, any more backstory on that Chiss on the Jedi Council just before RotS? Who's this? -----signature----- Abel G. Peña: http://www.abelgpena.com Star Wars Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/abelgpena Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/abelgpena Second Prophet of the Church of Waru Recipient of a monstrosity known as a Mandalorian Ewok™
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Tam_Elgrin Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 4/13/06 12:21pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86) - Date Edited: 4/13/06 12:25pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Tam_Elgrin
	A year before RotS, and he's not exactly confirmed as being Chiss, either, altho it's a good bet. He appears in the first issue of GENERAL GRIEVOUS, on the council alongside an unidentified Gran (altho the popular bet is that she's Maks Leem). Scope them out here. -----signature----- hey, who turned out the lights?
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sabarte Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 4/13/06 1:11pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	I seriously doubt he's a Chiss. Too purple. Maybe...glances over Wookieepedia Brigian or something.
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Halagad_Ventor Title: - Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 4/13/06 1:53pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	Oh, interesting. I'd forgotten that. My instincts tell me to fight as hard as possible to make this character something other than a Chiss, just so the race maintains some of its mystique into the NR era, for goodness' sake. But those red eyes make it harder to get around. -----signature----- Abel G. Peña: http://www.abelgpena.com Star Wars Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/abelgpena Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/abelgpena Second Prophet of the Church of Waru Recipient of a monstrosity known as a Mandalorian Ewok™
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WhillJedi Registered: Feb '06	Date Posted: 4/13/06 2:20pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	Hey Abel! Nice job on the Grievous endnotes - you did a good job outlining all the sources you referenced and I admire the way you molded all the pieces of Grievous' personality into one memorable character. Sorry us fans crack the whip so hard, what with wanting behind-the-scenes references and retcons and such, but we truly can't get enough of your work!
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Thrawn McEwok Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 4/13/06 2:32pm Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	Halagad_Ventor posted: Basically what Rogue said. IIRC, the options for Quarmall in that adventure hook were A)the PCs find a Jedi Knight who calls himself Quarmall who's the actual Quarmall, brainwashed by Palp, B)the PCs find a Force-strong guy working for Palp who calls himself Quarmall but is in fact a phony, or C)the PCs encounter a guy named Quarmall who is the actual Quarmall and is still on the good side. Continuity-wise, the only available option would now be B. Well, perhaps they took Quarmall's blood and did something with it...? Speaking of which... did the Grievous chassis still have Sifo-Dyas' Force-sensitive blood pumping round it after the bits of Kalee went squish-burn in RotS? Halagad_Ventor posted: Haven't you? I don't know!! ... sabarte posted: I seriously doubt he's a Chiss. Too purple. Maybe...glances over Wookieepedia Brigian or something. Good answer... ... but, that said, the lighting in that shot is kinda purple anyway - early evening in Imperial City? And why is it never early morning in Imperial City? Halagad_Ventor posted: Oh, interesting. I'd forgotten that. My instincts tell me to fight as hard as possible to make this character something other than a Chiss, just so the race maintains some of its mystique into the NR era, for goodness' sake. But those red eyes make it harder to get around. Well, as sab pointed out, Brigian could fit... On the other hand, I kinda like the idea that the Jedi are drawing recruits from places no-one else really knows about (Talz, for instance - and tying in with the map scene in AotC). Or this guy could come from some sort of Jedi underground on Thule...? - The Imperial Ewok -----signature----- A/T = OTP :===8[#]8===: Kyp/Jaina fans: stand up and be counted!
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Biddybot Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 4/15/06 10:56am Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	Hey, what is all this discussion lately about whether Grievous's final tally of Jedi kills ought to include this or that particular individual? The heck with arguing over whether he should have just one more kill! This is one time I'm turning to the General Grievous comics series for my version of the 'facts'--I swear I read that some Jedi type there complained that Grievous had been responsible for murdering "hundreds of our brothers and sisters". Besides, the Jedi Order as a whole at the start of the Clone Wars is supposed to have, what, ten thousand or so trained members in it? I can't see then how killing several dozen Jedi is going to put all that much of a dent in things. But if a single individual is personally responsible for killing three, four, even five or more percent of your total numbers, all right, then I can see people sitting up and taking notice. I'm not saying that Grievous should necessarily kill all those hundreds of Jedi in hand-to-hand battles--nailing them during dogfights or by issuing the fire control orders that did 'em in will suit me too--but, geez, come on! Let the guy have at least a couple of hundred 'official' kills to his credit! It'd make up a bit for that utterly ignoble end he had to suffer, plus which...what can I say...the more bloodthirsty Grievous is, the more I love him! Ahem... Just finished reading through the first two endnotes and am enjoying all the background info, even though I'm not really familiar with a lot of it and am not at all inclined to be a canon-stickler. Hopefully, it'll also help other people appreciate how much work goes into at least trying to keep consistent the background of a character who's already appeared in so many different mediums. I noted some earlier queries about the differing vespid/mantid references for the Yam'rii... That's an easy one to solve IMO. The Yam'rii are aliens, not the products of Earthly evolution. There's not the slightest reason therefore why they couldn't have their own unique blend of characteristics reminiscent of Earth-insect orders...why NOT a mantid that could also inject venom through a proper sting or even just a hollow spine? It would make the Yam'rii all the more formidable as foes, and if they're also in the habit of snacking on the Kaleesh as well as just catching and killing them, then you could further tie in such grisly specifics as having said venom be of the sort that acts by liquifying tissue...a little predigestion of the 'Huks'' food, if you will. Okay, I think I just grossed myself out there, picturing one of Grievous's kids being internally 'liquified', but I'm sure you catch my drift... Aside from that, the only real inconsistency I've noticed myself so far is that Grievous doesn't seem to recognize San Hill in the Warren Fu story. But that's another one that's easily solved. Grievous got bashed in the head during his shuttle crash...instant selective amnesia. Well, that'd be my excuse, anyway! To Halagard Ventor now: Thanks muchly for the replies to a post I made a few pages back! I wasn't expecting that and it was very nice of you. I'm also glad you didn't take my whining about wanting to see more alienness with any real seriousness. There's always what I'd most like to see, and then there's appreciating the realities of creating for a target audience, to the client's specifics, and working under a deadline. I try to keep the latter in mind whenever responding to professionally-generated work. For interest's sake, I've come to believe that the number of general SF fans who share my taste for really alien aliens is about the same as the percentage of the populace who find 'bugs' and other invertebrates fascinating and worth studying--just under 1%. The vast majority, I think, want aliens that they can easily relate to without needing to be naturalists or trained diplomats--the 'exotic ethnics' that are really more reflections of various aspects of humanity than alien per se. A lot of fans also seem to like aliens at the weirder, 'goofy' end of the scale, the ones who are obviously NOT all that humanoid, but who nonetheless still behave and emote in ways that make them readily comprehensible...I think of these as the 'real-life' cartoon character types and they're a sort which I think the Star Wars universe has always done exceptionally well, especially of late--I'm thinking here of aliens like Chewbacca, Nute Gunray, Dexter Jettster, and the Gungans. Given his official background to date and the good points that some other posters have made, I agree that Grievous best serves his purpose and appeals to the largest majority when presented as an exotic ethnic of the unrepentent villain persuasion. My own personal view of him is that he has a much less angsty background that's remarkable only for being unremarkable, and that his motivations, especially when a cyborg, are far more ambiguous, but I think that's a version that's really only suited for the printed page, and the fannish page at that. I dare say that far more of Grievous's fans will always be much more interested in how he fights and in who he kills than in how he thinks! Just remembered...I did get one little bit of alien Grievousy goodness of the kind I like in that 'Incredible Cross-sections' book--the entry on his wheel bike mentioned that the control panel he manipulates was set to visually display according to the colour spectrum as perceived by Grievous's species. I don't why I like stuff like that so much, really. I'd probably only ever use it to make some lame gag about humans thinking the Kaleesh had the most gawdawful colour sense when it came to Kaleesh fashions or something of that ilk... And while on the subject, that word-picture of Grievous using his wheel bike to lead a charge of hailfire droids into battle was THE best image for me that's come out of these articles about him to date! I wish some Photoshop genius would take up the challenge of creating the scene using AOTC and ROTS stills--it's such a good one! The only wheel bike image I like even better is picturing Grievous using the machine to mow through a whole wave of advancing clone troopers and other soldiers, but that's mainly me enjoying the guy's bloodthirsty aspects way too much again... One other thing about Grievous's vehicles which you might enjoy...when I first read that he'd called his Belbullab starfighter 'Soulless One', I just about snorted coffee through my nose. I'm sure it's because I'd read, just minutes before, that 'Huk' was a slur meaning 'soulless bug'. Personally, I don't think being called a 'bug' is so bad. To be called 'soulless' by people who are themselves very spiritual, though...I can see the insult there. Why, then, Grievous would apply such an insulting word to his ship...I guess I just instantly visualized this whole little scenario of the Belbullab crapping out on Grievous just as he was about to take out a Jedi interceptor or something and then Grievous being so mad afterwards that he leapt out and booted and swore at his starfighter as soon as he'd landed, using the worst Kaleesh curses he could think of. The name stuck, for the same reasons some people refer to their cars as 'The Rustbucket' or 'That Unreliable B----'... I doubt that this is the sort of reaction you intended when you came up with the idea of Grievous naming his Belbullab, but honestly, I don't know why else anyone would attach what seems to me a pretty nasty monicker to his vehicle! In closing, a serious query: I've been working off the assumption that amoung Grievous's cyborg enhancements are computer components that give him the ability to directly communicate with his droid soldiers and vessels--a sort of machine/organic brain interface and built-in comm net. This is something which I can see giving him a huge advantage during complex battles. I imagine he could also process and analyze ongoing operational data and intelligence far more swiftly than could your average all-organic commander. Does this sound reasonable and has this aspect of Grievous's cyborg being ever even been worked out? I also like the notion of him being able to speak the droid languages of all the droid types under his command, thanks to software packages uploaded into his own 'in house' computer...have this nice scene in mind of him standing in the hangar bay of Invisible Hand, surrounded by Vulture droids in walking configuration and talking to them with that funny machine dialect the Vultures used in ROTS. I'll keep the scene even if this sort of thing is not canon, but it would be neat to know if Grievous really were capable of such things. So--thanks again for all the continued alien cyborg love and interest, and keep those articles and pictures coming! Till the next set of endnotes then... Cheers! Biddybot
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The2ndQuest Title: Manager: -Literature -LACWAC -Games Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 4/15/06 11:07am Subject: RE: "Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous" & "Lord of War" by Abel & Joe (SWI #86)
	>> And why is it never early morning in Imperial City? -----signature----- "When your future self tells you to do something, YOU DO IT." K'Kruhk, 140 ABY:"Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker? Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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