Author Topic: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
Darth Pipes  8298 posts
Registered: Oct '99
41716_Darth Bane
Date Posted: 9/9/05 4:25pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp......... - Date Edited: 9/9/05 4:30pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Darth Pipes
Here we go again with evil Obi-Wan. To me, I think he did the right thing by lying to Luke about Anakin in ANH. Luke wasn't ready to face the truth. If he had learned that Vader was his father, he probably would have ran over with him and tried to redeem him. Luke in ANH wasn't ready to deal with the truth. What I knock Obi-Wan for is still using his "from a certain point of view" nonsense when Luke finally learns the truth.

As for the Empire, it was a tyrannical, murderous regime. No matter how much Mara and Zahn pine for it. Through her marriage with Luke, she has experienced wonderful things. Yet to her, it doesn't stand up to the days of the Evil Empire where she was Palpatine's lapdog and murderer.

 

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Kudzu  6437 posts
Registered: Jun '05
18640_Clone Trooper
Date Posted: 9/9/05 4:31pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
Thrawn was more civilized, I think, than Palpatine was. If the Emperor invited you to dinner and you ordered something that he thought to be distasteful, he'd probably electrify you. Thrawn would take notes, then use that information to kick your rear end when it came down to fisticuffs.

 

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jelly  118 posts
Registered: Jan '05
8054_Anakin and Padme
Date Posted: 9/9/05 5:21pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
Shelley, Tiershon_Fett, seriously, what books are you reading? confused Or are you just reading a lot INTO the books?

Any chance you could come up with some specific books and page numbers to back up some of these claims?

 

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EH_Pilot  3940 posts
Registered: Dec '03
41188_New Republic Symbol
Date Posted: 9/9/05 5:29pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
No, of course they can't. They never have, and they never will.

 

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Tiershon_Fett  8003 posts
Registered: Oct '00
41206_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 9/9/05 7:43pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
Thanks for answering for me EH........

talk_hand

Well, Jelly, there's two reasons. One, I borrow lots of these books from the library.
Two, in the past I did do that, and all I got was, "well, I don't think that's that bad", or she was brainwashed and couldn't help it, or she is abnormal and can't react normally, and a myriad of other excuses, that completely glossed over your laborious work. It got old.

 

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MasterSkywalker86  1534 posts
Registered: May '05
19975_Dash Rendar
Date Posted: 9/9/05 7:48pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
anyway back to topic at hand. wink Luke had probably the smallest training experience ever.

ANH he probably had an hour or so with Obi-wan guiding him, afterwards in ESB he had a week's training with yoda, then come to ROTJ he defeats his father(look at the Purge cover, even with the suit he still was one of the most powerful sith), turns him to the light and becomes a jedi knight. within a 3 year period. That's pretty impressive, but he's a skywalker it's in his blood or should i say midi-chloridian count ?

anywho after that we come to DE a 6 year period i belive after ROTJ luke has a massive leap in power. He first leviates a star destroyer down, then destroys a horde of droids and alien dogs with just the force, then crushes an AT-AT walker and defeats the emeperor. but after that luke started fearing that too much use of the force could lure him back to the darkside. so he holds back his full power, until TUF when he realizes it's ok. Luke has done a huge list of tremendous feats i haven't heard any other jedi done before.(walking on lava anyone ?) I don't think the Eu has depicted him as not powerful or wimpy, on the contrary he's the superman of GFFA. wink , But I think they like to put him with no action parts, since it wouldn't be a challenge for him and for the new charcaters to have some action.

That's why in NJO he we don't see him doing much, but look at the later Del-Rey books TUF,SQ, and TJK. The Big 3 all have awesome parts in it. I think Skywalker-Singh you should look to the future of luke in the EU instead of dwelling in the past, they're improving with his character and giving him some much needed action. Also i noticed Zahn isn't one of your favorite luke writers(i'm not too big of a fan either)but i will say this, Zahn has brought luke as an clever & resourceful individual, showing luke doesn't have to rely on the force to kick butt.


I think though Steve Perry, KJA, James Luceno, Kathy Tyers, Zahn(yeah him too), and Troy Denning do a superb job of him.


 

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Excellence  24488 posts
Registered: Jul '02
6338_New Republic Seal
Date Posted: 9/10/05 3:22am Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp......... - Date Edited: 9/10/05 3:25am (1 edits total) Edited By: Excellence

Bait successful. Sometimes it's just too easy . . . sigh.

I specifically said those two (Georgie and Timothy) made Star Wars significant, Shelley. If Zahn didn't his dissenters wouldn't be having this argument, you wouldn't be furious with him, and global fans wouldn't be talking. I said significant, and that doesn't have to mean popular. It means famous. He made Star Wars famous, and he made it significant, period. It was revitalised after the waning years; Peter's foreword in Tales from the Empire speaks of this.

Fans are buzzing for the positive or negative about Zahn this and Zahn that. And thus his impact on SW is significant. I'm not going to argue this further, just wanted to clarify. At least you've confirmed fun still exists after that blasted Firkraag red dragon in BG2 hugs

 

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JadeLotus  1376 posts
Registered: Mar '05
24190_Owen and Beru
Date Posted: 9/10/05 6:19am Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
Shelly posted:
Wow, I'm in awe of her self-flagellation. She doesn't feel guilty that she personally murdered people, that she fought to keep the Empire in power. No, she feels guilty that she survived when many others did not.

They are one in the same. That she "survived" (by any means necessary) when others did "not".

Shelly posted:
So she prefers the Empire? Well, I suppose she would. She's a selfish person, and she lived the high life under the Empire.

Yes, constant training 24/7, no real exposure to any emotions, love or affection. Manipulated into murder, knowing that if she failed she would be dealt with accordingly. That's the high life for you.

The Mara in TJK would never give up the life she has in exchange for her life under the Empire. She liked some structual aspects of it. That it all.

Shelly posted:
And in exchange, she received...enough.
That, I'll agree with. I hated that line in Balance Point.

Shelly posted:
No, she just pines for it, and gushes over Palpatine in front of people whose planets/families he destroyed.
Please post some evidence of this.

 

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MarcusP2  12819 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered: Jul '04
6822_Manny Calavera
Date Posted: 9/10/05 6:46am Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
If it's what I think she's referring to, it was sometime in the NJO, and after either Anakin or Chewie died (I think Anakin) Mara made reference to her also losing a lot, I think.

 

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skywalker-singh  248 posts
Registered: Jun '02
6480_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 9/10/05 12:18pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
MasterSkywalker86 posted:
anyway back to topic at hand. wink Luke had probably the smallest training experience ever.

ANH he probably had an hour or so with Obi-wan guiding him, afterwards in ESB he had a week's training with yoda, then come to ROTJ he defeats his father(look at the Purge cover, even with the suit he still was one of the most powerful sith), turns him to the light and becomes a jedi knight. within a 3 year period. That's pretty impressive, but he's a skywalker it's in his blood or should i say midi-chloridian count ?

anywho after that we come to DE a 6 year period i belive after ROTJ luke has a massive leap in power. He first leviates a star destroyer down, then destroys a horde of droids and alien dogs with just the force, then crushes an AT-AT walker and defeats the emeperor. but after that luke started fearing that too much use of the force could lure him back to the darkside. so he holds back his full power, until TUF when he realizes it's ok. Luke has done a huge list of tremendous feats i haven't heard any other jedi done before.(walking on lava anyone ?) I don't think the Eu has depicted him as not powerful or wimpy, on the contrary he's the superman of GFFA. wink , But I think they like to put him with no action parts, since it wouldn't be a challenge for him and for the new charcaters to have some action.

That's why in NJO he we don't see him doing much, but look at the later Del-Rey books TUF,SQ, and TJK. The Big 3 all have awesome parts in it. I think Skywalker-Singh you should look to the future of luke in the EU instead of dwelling in the past, they're improving with his character and giving him some much needed action. Also i noticed Zahn isn't one of your favorite luke writers(i'm not too big of a fan either)but i will say this, Zahn has brought luke as an clever & resourceful individual, showing luke doesn't have to rely on the force to kick butt.


I think though Steve Perry, KJA, James Luceno, Kathy Tyers, Zahn(yeah him too), and Troy Denning do a superb job of him.





Yes in DE, we see him display enormous power, perhaps too much power.
I can understand him toning down his use. But if we go by mara's lectures to him in VOTF, he apparently had not toned down at all, until events in the zahn duology.
SO that does explain the crop of boks in between.
That said toning down is one thing but when you are getting whipped by Kueller, mind controlled by Nyax or willing to sacrifice yourself to some Blob named Waru- YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO TONE DOWN or hold back.
Rather you use all the light side powers available to you to destroy this evil to prevent bloodshed.
I mean this creature is about to swallow your nephew and you want to join him? Weird reaction as a uncle?

Yes TUF, TJK seem a sign of better things (though i am still not sold on luke using lightening or following jacen's views), the point is talk about lost opportunities with Luke has a character in the 30 years between ROTJ and TJK.
I guess better late then ever, but we are seeing luke at the age of 50,60 the way we should have seen him in the bantam era.
Then by the legacy era- it would have been more interesting see the old luke withdraw from a more active role and holding back usage.

We never really saw him do much in his early years, when that is the time to show us.

 

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MasterSkywalker86  1534 posts
Registered: May '05
19975_Dash Rendar
Date Posted: 9/10/05 12:36pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
skywalker-singh


That said toning down is one thing but when you are getting whipped by Kueller

well he had an injured leg, which can be too much for for him to handle when he is holding back and is in pain. though can you give me specifics about the duel, it has been a long time. aslo luke was willing to take his life then join the dark side, he was willing to turn force ghost ala ANH in that duel i remeber.



mind controlled by Nyax

did you also notice that he overcame the mind control after a couple of minutes ? also Mara and Tahiri were struggling alot too. Nyax was enhanced with cyber force training and mutation so he wasn't your average dark jedi. anywho luke still held back, but he held his own in the fight, though i wish luke would leviated himself to fight Nyax instead and also for luke to unleash his true power.

or willing to sacrifice yourself to some Blob named Waru- YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO TONE DOWN or hold back.

well besides TCS to be one of the worst SW books ever, luke possibly felt he could defeat the blob if he sacfrice himself to save his nephew. with probably little more knowledge he would have figure out how to defeat the creature.

We never really saw him do much in his early years, when that is the time to show us

well i would say otherwise(SOTE,OT,TaB, SOTEEvolution, TTT, DE, JAT)but i agree with you on that after TaB there is a big gap that Del-rey can fill with possibly luke solo books and other big 3 adventures.

 

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skywalker-singh  248 posts
Registered: Jun '02
6480_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 9/10/05 2:59pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp......... - Date Edited: 9/10/05 3:29pm (2 edits total) Edited By: skywalker-singh
MasterSkywalker86 posted:
skywalker-singh


That said toning down is one thing but when you are getting whipped by Kueller

well he had an injured leg, which can be too much for for him to handle when he is holding back and is in pain. though can you give me specifics about the duel, it has been a long time. aslo luke was willing to take his life then join the dark side, he was willing to turn force ghost ala ANH in that duel i remeber.


Basically he thought if he became a force ghost, he can then defeat Kueller by guiding Leia, otherwise injured leg or not, he was unable to win as Kueller was feeding on him and getting stronger.



MasterSkywalker86 posted:
skywalker-singhmind controlled by Nyax

did you also notice that he overcame the mind control after a couple of minutes ? also Mara and Tahiri were struggling alot too. Nyax was enhanced with cyber force training and mutation so he wasn't your average dark jedi. anywho luke still held back, but he held his own in the fight, though i wish luke would leviated himself to fight Nyax instead and also for luke to unleash his true power.


Well remember, he almost joined nyax before his love for mara drew him back. It was a bit of a struggle for him to resist. After all these years- you would think he would have more control then to join a brain-dead dark jedi. I was shocked that he would even contemplate that.
If anything it was Tahiri who was the most successful against nyax, as he was powerful enough to bring all 3 to their knees via the force. I doubt luke was holding back- he was just shown as unable to beat nyax on his own. If luke wanted to hold back then there was no sense in joining the coruscant mission as he should have simply left nyax there. If anything nyax was good at killing vong and doing them a favor.

MasterSkywalker86 posted:
skywalker-singhor willing to sacrifice yourself to some Blob named Waru- YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO TONE DOWN or hold back.

well besides TCS to be one of the worst SW books ever, luke possibly felt he could defeat the blob if he sacfrice himself to save his nephew. with probably little more knowledge he would have figure out how to defeat the creature.


I disagree as nothing in the book indicated luke had that frame of thought in his mind.
Tygress had rescued anakin, so anakin was in no danger. Luke voluntarily was sacrificing himself for no real reason.

MasterSkywalker86 posted:
skywalker-singhWe never really saw him do much in his early years, when that is the time to show us

well i would say otherwise(SOTE,OT,TaB, SOTEEvolution, TTT, DE, JAT)but i agree with you on that after TaB there is a big gap that Del-rey can fill with possibly luke solo books and other big 3 adventures.


I would disagree on JAT. Luke was very out of character in some ways and heavily confused, not to mention his pathetic one page showing against kyp.
Its amazing but in all the novels, in the last decade-luke had yet to best a dark jedi.
We finally see him do so in TJK. For a jedi master of his stature-not the greatest of records.

 

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Joser_Kyind  1269 posts
Registered: Feb '05
40005_Quinlan Vos
Date Posted: 9/10/05 3:10pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
I agree that Luke isn't portrayed as powerfully in the EU as he should be.

About Mara and the Empire, I got the impression that she missed the structured life, not the tyrannical government. She was more comfortable in militaristic environments. And the Empire of the Hand was ideologically more like a militaristic New Republic than the old Empire. That's why Luke was willing to go with her, becuase he would not be betraying his principles, and he cared more about his wife's desires than his own.

 

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MasterSkywalker86  1534 posts
Registered: May '05
19975_Dash Rendar
Date Posted: 9/10/05 5:26pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
well i don't think that's the only dark jedi we have seen luke beat(but there were two in TJK.) i'll find a list later.

 

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MasterSkywalker86  1534 posts
Registered: May '05
19975_Dash Rendar
Date Posted: 9/10/05 7:44pm Subject: RE: If Luke Skyalker is so powerful, then why is he such a wimp.........
ok skywalker singh agree to disagree then on the battles i mention, but luke has done many incredible feats with the force(i think someone already posted a list) and also has battle the most powerful sith around.


First he owns some of the most powerful sith around.

The Emperor- Luke defeats the Emperor Reborn(Sidious is at full potential, while luke hasn't even reach half.)

Darth Vader- Luke defeats him before he became a jedi knight with incomplete training.

Exar Kun- Luke taught his students well and as a force ghost he channels the light with Kun's Master to defeat the old Sith.

He defeated Gantoris, who was becoming a very a exceptional student.

Next he has defeated the Emperor Reborn dark jedi/ apprentices.

He defeats Dathormi witches.

He defeated Desann's Reborn dark jedi and also some Ragnos Cultists.

Spoilers

He defeats Alema while fighting off Gorog with ease and he had so many chances to finish her.

Next he kills Welk while he was at the disadvantage.

End of Spoilers

he defeats about 10 Shimmara's Slayers which no body could sense in the force.( which Kyp himself gets owned by).

o before he was a jedi in SOTE he own Guri, and she was a very good assassin droid, if i remember correctly.


So Bantam was toning him too down with the duels between him and Kueller.( also we didn't see luke give his all with Nyax( read TUF he was holding back) tahiri only manage to do what she did, because he couldn't sense her. I totally agree with you that they have made luke underpowered in some books, but i'm glad they're bringing luke's true power back.


I mean he has the force potential of anakin skywalker and he decides to give up the duel between him and Kueller(vader wannabe), and also i heard none of the characters were acting right in TCS(a blob from a different dimension, were they running out of ideas ?). also if there was ever a rematch between luke and Nyax, we would know luke would own. Nyax may have 6 lightsabers, but luke makes his saber act like 10, more like 20. wink


 

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