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Author	Topic: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
Daniel-K Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 6/12 9:05pm Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Valhoun posted: Stealth starfighters have at least been hinted at for a long time and will eventually be made obsolete by better sensors. Stealth starfighters are absurd because of thermodynamics - when your exhaust is in the 10 trillion degree range you show up on infrared pretty well, much less the 300 k that room temperature will be detected at. Cloaking dealt with this, pointing out that a ship couldn't be at power and cloaked at the same time without its engines giving it away. And yes I recal the rapid cooling tibanna bit but that just makes it worse as it mean to shed the energy that fast the difference in temperature has to be greater so you show up better. [quote] The range of turbolasers has been in debate for awhile now but the new variants seem kind of silly. It's as if the writers needed a crutch so they didn't have to write creative space battles. Instead, a few new gimmicks makes it easier to keep the reader interested.[/quote]You can't have a range over TLs without knowing what is the minimum resolution needed to achieve a target lock. Once you do the bit about the patrol frigate detecting the vagabond in Tyrant's Test and the Venator range in ROTSICS let you start figuring out the power of the sensors which is the limiting factor. A TL bolt is good for longer then the radius of a solar system per ESB. The trick is knowing where your target is to hit it. Admiral_Keller posted: To be perfectly honest the role of turbolasers has always been bombardment from close range. I believe the the idea of the "long-range" turbolasers is that they are probably more powerful (as evidence of why entire ships aren't outfitted with them is because of Reactor contrainsts) Given that they hit the MF multiple times and only took out the gun turrets rather then vaporizing the entire thing in one shot like a HTL did an ISD in ROTJ I think them being high powered can be ruled out. The shots were starfighter grade or so - even variable yields only scale so far. Nobody145 posted: From what I understand, turbolaser technology for the most part hasn't changed that much. Sure, they've become more powerful and probably more accurate, but essentially it comes down to two ships blasting each other. The new long-range turbolasers seem to have a much, much farther range, so that at the range when ships are usually just glaring at each other, long-range turbolasers are already blasting the other ship, so that could be important in battles. The Millenium Falcon was mostly wrecked by a long-range turbolaser since they just kept getting tagged again and again, no matter how far they got, until they were able to jump to hyperspace. The Anakin Solo was able to start blasting a world from very long range. The long-range variant doesn't seem to be that powerful, but more just that it has such a long reach, damage accumulates faster or longer than normal variants. And its arguable that the long-range variant aren't more common maybe because they're harder to make, requiring more advanced tech, or the GA doesn't want to spread the technology too much, in case hostile factions might get their hands on the technology. Which they do, but it doesn't really make that much of a difference, as fleet battles aren't really LotF's strength. This goes back to my earlier point that beyond a light second or so, the range of the TL doesn't matter. Ships pull thousands of Gs of accel, the burn of a fraction of a second can have them clear of the shot very quickly. d=1/2at remember? d in now the radius in the area the ship can be. Figure you are shooting at a Venator from 2 light seconds away and as they expect you to fire on them, they make a half second burn at full power at a random perpendicular angle to you. For simplicity we will assume the initial velocities relative to each other for the ships was 0 m/s. After that burn you now have a 0.18% chance of hitting the ship even if it has its biggest side towards you. Further, in ESB Vader wanted them to bombard the planet from outside the solar system - that's about 100 AU or > 13 light hours away. Clearly the ranges given in various things are effective ranges against an unknown target, not maximum range. WRT the natureof these long range TLs, max range is limited by bolt coherency - at a certain point it breaks down and diffuses too much to do damage. We know the coils inthe barrel do that, as the "galven" the shot. Since you can only have a maximum density in the coils (whatever it is) and we can resume they already max out, this means the TLs have longer barrels to make them long range. Longer barrel means more mass for the turret. In that case the nifty bit about them would be new fast tracking mounts for the turrets that are able to swing a heavier turret around with the speed and precision of a smaller cannon. -----signature----- The real light of the world is Sagan's candle in the dark http://achewood.com/ - Greatest comic ever
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DaggerSword Registered: Mar '08	Date Posted: 6/13 12:06am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II) - Date Edited: 6/13 12:07am (1 edits total) Edited By: DaggerSword
	Admiral_Keller posted: So there's my source on it. Originally it was the Aggressor which they retconned later to be the Whelm Which is promptly negated by the fact that the 2007 edition of Starships of the Galaxy mentions dozens of Imperial battlegroups after Endor being led by SSDs. The book also negates the NR only capturing two SSDs by saying "many SSDs" were captured by them, which subsequently led some politicians to doubt the necessity of the Viscount-class. 8)
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Admiral_Keller Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 6/13 12:35am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II) - Date Edited: 6/13 12:38am (1 edits total) Edited By: Admiral_Keller
	So what...we have 31 total Executors running the GFFA around instead of 11? Did the book say "Executor-class Super Star Destroyers" or just Super Star Destroyers because SSD does not just apply to the Executor. Until I see this information retconned in a novel I'm inclined to not take it into account. I'm a Imperial Supporter till I die but that is too extreme even for me. The Empire maintained over 248 known Star Destroyers as well as some other 700 or whatever that were never documented. Plus the addition of 11 Executor SSD's which were even disguised from the senate because they costed to dang much and then we have two Death Stars. I'm sorry but the Empire before Endor didn't have the resources to have 20 (just a random number I'm using to illuistrate a point) active Executors. Why would it have the resources to have some 20 execs running around after Endor when the Empire is in total chaos? I don't think so. EDIT: To further prove my point: Isard believe it or not had considerable power if we are to believe that the Whelm was actually used by her around 3 ABE. If she were to have the power we believe she had then she probably would have had at least 3 or 5 SSD's and too tell the truth the NR would have been murdered if she had access to those ships and recalled them to coruscant. -----signature----- Imperial Hardliner Imperial Holonet Radio Listener Corellians have Seven Hells...Chew on that one Catholicism Creator of the Njophobia Theory™ a sadly common Star Wars fan disorder
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Sinrebirth Title: Hierarch and Chancellor of EUCity Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 6/13 12:52am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	They could have been created before Endor, to be fair. The Empire post-Endor didn't have the capacity to maintain much beyond an ISD accurately. And an SSD may be small or large, as we've seen. The Allegiance has been presented as an SSD to us, for example. I'm starting to consider the Megador as an 8km SSD, considering it's described as five times as powerful as an ISD II. That's a particular number, don't you think? Even then, if there are dozens of battlegroups with an SSD leading them, Byss could have them all. Incidentally, I believe spoiler period is over, so highlighting isn't necessary? -----signature----- Sey's Sinre The Missing Chapters of LotF: Invincible http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=28933751&brd=10477&replies=10 Chapter 2.5 is up now! Featuring Wedge, Dician, Niathal, Daala, Valin and Syal!
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 6/13 1:03am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Super Star Destroyers aren't invincible, but they are beasts to take down. However, we do know of instances of at least several Super Star Destroyers being constructed post-Endor, despite the chaos the Empire was going through. Despite some exaggerations (Pellaeon saying the Executor nearly bankrupted the Empire in Darksaber), SSDs weren't incredibly rare, just not as common as Imperial Star Destroyers. Razor's Kiss was under construction at Kuat, before being stolen by Zsinj and then destroyed by Solo's battle group. The Emperor had both the Eclipse I and the Eclipse II, not to mention other superweapons like World Devestators and the Galaxy Gun, under construction post-Endor and all were completed. I think it was Teradoc that managed to build his own Super Star Destroyer (though can't remember what size it was, or what size it has been retconned to since). Not to mention Lusankya was constructed in secret, and no one even knew it existed until it blasted its way out of Coruscant and escaped. The Black Fleet Crisis mentions several Super-class Star Destroyers went missing in the Koornacth (sp?) cluster, and Intimidator/Pride of Yevetha was unknown until the Yevethan war began. And then there was that Eye of Palpatine that lurked around somewhere for decades. Even if Isard had recalled dozens of Star Destroyers to defend Coruscant personally, then that would mean leaving many other sectors undefended, open to Rebel strikes. Not that she cared about Coruscant anyway, as she intended it to be a funeral pyre of sick and dying non-humans for the New Republic to try and fail at saving. And its hard to tell exactly what a book means when they say Super Star Destroyer, Super-class, etc. The original answer would be that all would be just like the Executor, with some variants, but nowadays... well, yeah, no need to start another the Super Star Destroyer/Dreadnoughts debates/war. And yeah, it does seem silly that the Empire could come up with all these superweapons and giant ships, but... in the end, it just comes down to the Empire being tyrannical, so they take whatever resources they want, and with seemingly unlimited resources, and that's that. Whether a Star Destroyer or Super Star Destroyer is involved depends on the story involvedmoretha anything else. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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Admiral_Keller Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 6/13 1:06am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Which author stated that size? Cause remember...all authors do not write equally I still support that the 8km never existed turns on the flame shield -----signature----- Imperial Hardliner Imperial Holonet Radio Listener Corellians have Seven Hells...Chew on that one Catholicism Creator of the Njophobia Theory™ a sadly common Star Wars fan disorder
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Sinrebirth Title: Hierarch and Chancellor of EUCity Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 6/13 1:21am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Denning consistently mentions 8km SSDs, in the latest books in continuity... -----signature----- Sey's Sinre The Missing Chapters of LotF: Invincible http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=28933751&brd=10477&replies=10 Chapter 2.5 is up now! Featuring Wedge, Dician, Niathal, Daala, Valin and Syal!
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Admiral_Keller Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 6/13 1:30am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II) - Date Edited: 6/13 1:36am (2 edits total) Edited By: Admiral_Keller
	AdmiralNick22 posted: The Megador is one of those anomolies that is not properly expanded on. For starters, the only thing we really know about the vessel is that it has more engines that the Executor-class. Denning, while a excellent author, is well known for being pretty vague on fleet details. He tends to focus on ships and symbols familiar from the movies. Hence why he constatly used ISD's and throws in SSD references. In fact, one of the most "diverse" descriptions he has ever given for a fleet occurs in Inferno. He describes the GA Fifth Fleet as being composed of "Star Destroyers, Mon Cal cruisers, and heavy frigates". Yes, that is the extent to his fleet detailing ability. :P (No disrespect intented to Denning. I actually LOVE his books and consider him a excellent author) --Adm. Nick I'm going to use Nick as my answer there... Ok I can conceed that maybe 8km SSD's are being used by the remnant but not back before the Battle of Endor. The fact is I've seen so many retconns throughout the history of the GFFA. The Executor's have been 8km, 12~km 17km 17.8km and 19km...maybe 18km is next? I want an author to take the Megador and give it a bloody class. Why can't WOTC collaberate with the authors and tell them what is what and figure what is going to be what? Nobody145: Can you or someone else give me some quote-age where it says that the BFC contains Super-class Star Destroyers? Also Pelleaon knew about the construction of both the Lucy and Executor (at that time, if I'm thinking about the right time period) and I believe that's what he meant by that statement (remember that the Lucy was also the Executor and iirc it was the Executor Project that both ships were made under). -----signature----- Imperial Hardliner Imperial Holonet Radio Listener Corellians have Seven Hells...Chew on that one Catholicism Creator of the Njophobia Theory™ a sadly common Star Wars fan disorder
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 6/13 3:27am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	I don't own of the BFC books anymore, I just happened to reread them relatively recently for the 181st Imperial Discussion Group, and while I don't remember the exact page, I distinctly remember them mentioning that three Super-class Star Destroyers were listed among Black Sword Command's ships. The Pride of Yevetha, originally Intimidator, was also a Super Star Destroyer, but was taken out of the battle when the remaining original Imperial officers hijacked all the Imperial ships and at long last pulled out of Yevethan space. Its a shame the ship eventually just vanished. I think it was mentioned that it jumped to Byss, but of course, Byss had already been blown up, so the Black Sword ships split after that, with some joining Pellaeon I think, and the Intimidator was eventually found in the Unknown Regions, damaged beyond repair, according to the original Essential Chronology. I don't remember if it was the original or the New Essential Chronology that speculated that the Intimidator had been used by Thrawn's Empire of the Hand though. But anyway, that's another SSD down and out. The Imperial Remnant also had a Super Star Destroyer on display when Han and Leia visisted in Destiny's Way, though its anybody's guess whether that was a newly constructed one, or whether Pellaeon still had a Super Star Destroyer leftover from the Galactic Civil War. Though yeah, the length retcons are ridiculous, but when you have a fictional universe as wide as Star Wars, there are always contradictions and fixing those contradictions is messy. As for Lusankya, well, maybe by then he knew, but still, otherwise, for a good deal of the GCW, nobody knew there was a Super Star Destroyer hidden on Coruscant, so that shows just how much the Empire can cover, even on a planet as crowded as Coruscant. Though I think the recent Starships of the Galaxy said it was installed as a "massive planetary shield generator" but still, you'd think someone would've noticed a SSD in orbit. On the other hand, it also goes to show how well the Empire hid stuff. While the Lusankya's costs were just attributed to the overall Executor project, you'd think someone would've noticed that all the other Super-class Star Destroyers under construction only cost half what it took to build the Executor. When they did figure out about the Lusankya and Executor, Winter mentions the New Republic had to raise their estimates of Imperial ship numbers. Although I think it was also speculated by Qwi Xux that there might be another Eye of Palpatine lurking around somewhere too for that matter, with how the Emperor had two eyes. Then again, he also had half a dozen Hand agents, so perhaps its best not to take the anatomy comparison too literally. Though Han's idea for a Nostril of Palaptine is probably worth building just to laugh at it. What I find annoying about the Eclipse Super Star Destroyers is that during that last Empire at War expansion, someone actually stole it, and was shooting its superlase at stuff, and how there was a big Imperial and Rebel fleet after it, I think. It just kind of spoils the surprise of it showing up in Dark Empire, I feel, but that's just my own opinion. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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DaggerSword Registered: Mar '08	Date Posted: 6/13 4:13am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II) - Date Edited: 6/13 4:29am (2 edits total) Edited By: DaggerSword
	Admiral_Keller posted: Ok I can conceed that maybe 8km SSD's are being used by the remnant but not back before the Battle of Endor. The Inside the World of the Star Wars Trilogy and the Star Wars: Complete Locations (reprint of ITW:OT) books state there are many warships classes bigger than Star Destroyers (the regular, designated ones), and that they're lumped together as SSDs. So simply saying something's an SSD, doesn't mean it's an Executor. Admiral_Keller posted: The fact is I've seen so many retconns throughout the history of the GFFA. The Executor's have been 8km, 12~km 17km 17.8km and 19km...maybe 18km is next? Well, at least there's enough classes out there to give a home to all of the sizes. ;P We've got 4-6km (Dark Empire comic/Sourcebook/audio drama), 8km (Dark Nest III: Swarm War), 12km (Dawn of Defiance), 12,8km (SOTG 2001 edition), 12-16km (Death Star novel), 15km (Sovereigns), 17,5km (Eclipses), 19km ships (Executors). Collect the whole set! Admiral_Keller posted: I want an author to take the Megador and give it a bloody class. Oh yes. I'm hoping it's yet another GCW-era relic, myself. Admiral_Keller posted: Can you or someone else give me some quote-age where it says that the BFC contains Super-class Star Destroyers? In Before the Storm, the Order of Battle for Black Sword Command has them with three Super Star Destroyers as part of their assets. In Coruscant and the Core Worlds, a second SSD is identified as the Aramadia (also the name given to the Yevetha thrust ships), and is ditched at Byss when the Imperials split up. The ship is found by the Yevetha, towed back to N'zoth and used as a museum ship, landed on the surface. Based on its top-down profile, it looks like an overgrown ISD, similar to the SSDs used as escorts for the Eclipse in DE (identified as SSDs in the audio book, an undiscovered gem of trivia, if you ask me ). Apart from these sources, nothing is said on the BCC's SSDs and no name for the third ship is given. Admiral_Keller posted: So what...we have 31 total Executors running the GFFA around instead of 11? No, we have at least several dozen SSDs (no class given in book) after Endor, functioning as command vessels. Since the DESB six years after Endor say the average Moff or Sector Commander had access to SSDs of their own (home-made in each sector?) and the New Republic kept underestimating them, there's gotta be more still. And they don't even need to be command ships, at that. A private guardian above a treasury world or training center, or carrier vessels and other support ships (mentioned in SOTG 2007), the possibilities are endless. Admiral_Keller posted: I'm a Imperial Supporter till I die but that is too extreme even for me. The Empire maintained over 248 known Star Destroyers as well as some other 700 or whatever that were never documented. Plus the addition of 11 Executor SSD's which were even disguised from the senate because they costed to dang much and then we have two Death Stars. The Empire maintained 25,000 Imperial-class Star Destroyers, as per Specter of the Past. And that's just one class of Star Destroyer. You don't seem to appreciate the sheer scale of a galaxy-sized civilization. There's millions of subject worlds, billions of resource worlds that are stripped of their raw materials for all kinds of construction. Even if the SSDs number in their hundreds or thousands, it would not be impossible, in-universe, to maintain them, let alone build them. Admiral_Keller posted: I'm sorry but the Empire before Endor didn't have the resources to have 20 (just a random number I'm using to illuistrate a point) active Executors. Why would it have the resources to have some 20 execs running around after Endor when the Empire is in total chaos? I don't think so. Nowhere does it say they are Executors. But it's certainly not impossible, as I've explained above. Admiral_Keller posted: Isard believe it or not had considerable power if we are to believe that the Whelm was actually used by her around 3 ABE. If she were to have the power we believe she had then she probably would have had at least 3 or 5 SSD's and too tell the truth the NR would have been murdered if she had access to those ships and recalled them to coruscant. Didn't Isard struggle with infighting and opposition from countless Imperial warlords? Didn't she lure the Republic to get embroiled in insurrections on Coruscant and release a virus onto the population there?
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Admiral_Keller Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 6/13 5:37am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II) - Date Edited: 6/13 5:51am (2 edits total) Edited By: Admiral_Keller
	DaggerSword posted: The Inside the World of the Star Wars Trilogy and the Star Wars: Complete Locations (reprint of ITW:OT) books state there are many warships classes bigger than Star Destroyers (the regular, designated ones), and that they're lumped together as SSDs. So simply saying something's an SSD, doesn't mean it's an Executor. But their never listed as a Super-class Star Destroyer and just listed as a Super Star Destroyer? (if I remember my size rankings from my time with the fleet junkies anything over 2.2km can be considered a Super Star Destroyer). Also sorry if I made it seem like I was implying that all SSD's have to be Executors because that wasn't what I was getting at. DaggerSword posted: In Before the Storm, the Order of Battle for Black Sword Command has them with three Super Star Destroyers as part of their assets. In Coruscant and the Core Worlds, a second SSD is identified as the Aramadia (also the name given to the Yevetha thrust ships), and is ditched at Byss when the Imperials split up. The ship is found by the Yevetha, towed back to N'zoth and used as a museum ship, landed on the surface. Based on its top-down profile, it looks like an overgrown ISD, similar to the SSDs used as escorts for the Eclipse in DE (identified as SSDs in the audio book, an undiscovered gem of trivia, if you ask me ). Apart from these sources, nothing is said on the BCC's SSDs and no name for the third ship is given. Nothing has stated that these ships were of the relatively unknown Super-class. If I remember right as well DaggerSword posted: No, we have at least several dozen SSDs (no class given in book) after Endor, functioning as command vessels. Since the DESB six years after Endor say the average Moff or Sector Commander had access to SSDs of their own (home-made in each sector?) and the New Republic kept underestimating them, there's gotta be more still. And they don't even need to be command ships, at that. A private guardian above a treasury world or training center, or carrier vessels and other support ships (mentioned in SOTG 2007), the possibilities are endless. Again iirc the Command-class Super Star Destroyers as I call them are G-canon as it was even in the movies. There are Command ships that are classified as SSD's because of being over the aforementioned 2.2 km DaggerSword posted: The Empire maintained 25,000 Imperial-class Star Destroyers, as per Specter of the Past. And that's just one class of Star Destroyer. DaggerSword posted: You don't seem to appreciate the sheer scale of a galaxy-sized civilization. There's millions of subject worlds, billions of resource worlds that are stripped of their raw materials for all kinds of construction. Even if the SSDs number in their hundreds or thousands, it would not be impossible, in-universe, to maintain them, let alone build them. Oh I do but I was picking low numbers. However I do believe the Imperial minimalists would disagree with you a fair amount. DaggerSword posted: Didn't Isard struggle with infighting and opposition from countless Imperial warlords? Didn't she lure the Republic to get embroiled in insurrections on Coruscant and release a virus onto the population there? She did but she did have Coruscant which was still for all intents and purposes still the center of the Galaxy. She had more power then the average Imperial Warlord. While she was having problems with the Iron Fist and its fleet she did have the resources to take care of the fleet if she needed to. She however opted to let the Rebel's take care of that problem. I think that if she could have pulled in a SSD or two to defend coruscant she would have. A Sector fleet doesn't need to have a SSD to help it control a sector. Nobody145: To be make details clear. the Intimidator is a Executor-class the others are unnamned SSD's As to the EaW Expansion. I believe I speak for many when I say that the Eclipse prototype being stolen is dismissed a simple LA Fanon To All: I think where people misunderstood me was where I started using SSD to mean Executor, entirely my mistake. EDIT: Also I forgot to mention something. Due to the sketches of the Super-class I have seen it is basically a Executor down-sized. -----signature----- Imperial Hardliner Imperial Holonet Radio Listener Corellians have Seven Hells...Chew on that one Catholicism Creator of the Njophobia Theory™ a sadly common Star Wars fan disorder
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DaggerSword Registered: Mar '08	Date Posted: 6/13 6:31am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Admiral_Keller posted: But their never listed as a Super-class Star Destroyer and just listed as a Super Star Destroyer? (if I remember my size rankings from my time with the fleet junkies anything over 2.2km can be considered a Super Star Destroyer). Also sorry if I made it seem like I was implying that all SSD's have to be Executors because that wasn't what I was getting at. Ok, I understand. They're only listed as SSDs in Before the Storm, I think. The Intimidator is interestingly enough called an Executor-class Star Destroyer, and later Super-class (Shield of Lies). Admiral_Keller posted: Nothing has stated that these ships were of the relatively unknown Super-class. If I remember right as well Yup, they're unknown. But for the Aramadia to be present at N'zoth with the Intimidator and the other Imperial ships, it'd have to be significantly smaller than it, to be relatively downgraded as a threat. The only image so far doesn't have the arrow-dagger form like the Super or Executor. Admiral_Keller posted: Again iirc the Command-class Super Star Destroyers as I call them are G-canon as it was even in the movies. There are Command ships that are classified as SSD's because of being over the aforementioned 2.2 km Yeah, that seems to be the case. The only real destinction between them all is mostly due to size and armament, and if their combat ships or support ships. Admiral_Keller posted: Oh I do but I was picking low numbers. However I do believe the Imperial minimalists would disagree with you a fair amount. Yeah, but they don't write books, so their loss. Admiral_Keller posted: She did but she did have Coruscant which was still for all intents and purposes still the center of the Galaxy. She had more power then the average Imperial Warlord. While she was having problems with the Iron Fist and its fleet she did have the resources to take care of the fleet if she needed to. She however opted to let the Rebel's take care of that problem. I think that if she could have pulled in a SSD or two to defend coruscant she would have. A Sector fleet doesn't need to have a SSD to help it control a sector. I thought her idea was to leave Coruscant unguarded and let the Rebels handle the trouble on the surface. Then she gets stuck with an Executor-class vessel in the Outer Rim and increasingly diminishing resources. This in the same time period that Palpatine was gathering his forces in the Deep Core, one by one. I think her hold on the mainstream Imperial Remnant was incredibly fragile. Admiral_Keller posted: As to the EaW Expansion. I believe I speak for many when I say that the Eclipse prototype being stolen is dismissed a simple LA Fanon Yeah, but then it got included in SOTG 07. Admiral_Keller posted: Also I forgot to mention something. Due to the sketches of the Super-class I have seen it is basically a Executor down-sized. I've seen approximately three different depictions, the old Imperial Sourcebook profile, the SOTG 01 profile and the movie model. The first two have the shortened stern area, crunched behind the command tower, and a smaller city-structure in front of it. I think the tower is also positioned behind the primary dagger superstructure, while the movie model has it in front of that divide. The main hangar area is also smaller or apparantly non-existant outside the movie version. I hope they get to recycle that design somehow. Just don't call it an Executor. Make it the Megador or something. Megador-class has a nice ring to it.
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Admiral_Keller Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 6/13 7:03am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Megador-class has a nice Imperial Remnant ring to it as opposed to a Galactic Empire ring...which is nice. Yeah I could grow fond of that...good idea! -----signature----- Imperial Hardliner Imperial Holonet Radio Listener Corellians have Seven Hells...Chew on that one Catholicism Creator of the Njophobia Theory™ a sadly common Star Wars fan disorder
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Daniel-K Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 6/13 11:33am Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Based off a Victory and the cube law, it suggests the Megador would be ~2200 meters long. Based off an ISD and the cube law, it would be ~2700 meters long. Based off an Acclamator and the cube law, it would be ~4700 meters long Based off an Executor and the cube law, it would be ~6400 meters long Take that as you will. As to the number of Executors (and the entire fleet) we can get an order of magnitude guess based off what we know. A prize for whomever can tell me how to do that. -----signature----- The real light of the world is Sagan's candle in the dark http://achewood.com/ - Greatest comic ever
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DaggerSword Registered: Mar '08	Date Posted: 6/13 12:44pm Subject: RE: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II) - Date Edited: 6/13 1:06pm (3 edits total) Edited By: DaggerSword
	SSDs were meant to be sector-scale command ships (Cracken's Threat Dossier) The Rebels/New Republic kept underestimating the Empire obsession with super weapons, the average Moff (a sector governor) or Sector Commander had at one point access to SSDs or torpedo spheres (Dark Empire Sourcebook) Dozens of battlegroups in active service post-Endor, many of which were led by SSDs, leaving the Rebel Alliance with many enemies to face in the immediate aftermath (Starships of the Galaxy 2007) Not all SSDs were command ships, some served as carriers, repair bases or comm ships (SOTG 07) The amount of sectors within the Empire was at its start at least 6,000 (ROTS novel). Given its expansion, this is an absolute low estimate. If average means 50%, that makes 3,000 SSDs minimum, 6,000, if the plural is used to mean 2 ships. 6,000 warships and/or logistics vessels, all eclipsing a Star Destroyer in size, one way or another. I know some sources have specified only four torpedo spheres in the past, thus potentially contradicting this, but the problem is some sources also refer to larger spheres (Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, Black Ice), and even point out that this is only one form of orbital siege platform, which leaves room for more and different classes (since the four estimate is for a 1,9km long type). So, given the smallest amount available to the Empire, using its size at the start of its reign, that gives us several thousand Star Cruisers, Star Battlecruisers and Star Dreadnaughts (where at least 14 are Executors, given a count on Wookieepedia, two are Eclipses, and four are Sovereigns). If it appeases the minimalists, most ships have either a brief career before suffering their doom, or they are sabotaged and destroyed while undergoing construction. Surprise, surprise, this is usually the fate of most warships in the real world, as well. That doesn't mean they are "rare super weapons" or have no practical value in warfare. Another point is the fact that Executors and Eclipses do not represent the majority or norm of SSDs. They have always been pointed out to be a result of the designs of the Emperor and Darth Vader, who wanted bigger ships. Therefore, I assume that these ships are in the minority, and SSDs like the Aramadia and the Eclipse's escorts are in the majority. Lumping together all the SSDs and similar ships seen in canon so far (Empire only), we've got about 29 individuals. Adding this up with the 200+ out of 25,000 ISDs known so far (not to mention non-Imperial Star Destroyers), and there's plenty of story potential left. Addendum: Given the strictest interpretation of "command ships", and the fact that some officers preferred to lead from ISDs (even several Grand Admirals), this might hint at the possibility of SSDs that did not serve as command ships, but rather heavy weapons platforms, like the Viscount, Guardian and the Harbinger during the Yuuzhan Vong War. Another clue is the fact that, at the height of the Clone Wars, the Trade Federation could spare dozens of their battleships for the attempted kidnapping of Palpatine. Ships that, if stretched out from their ring shape, would be similar in volume and firepower to the smaller SSDs mentioned so far. There's also the matter of private corporations building SSD-sized ships millennia before the movies (Adascorp), and possibly the Republic with its Sith War command ships and Mandalorian War Inexpugnables.
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