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Author	Topic: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
blackmyron Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 6/17 10:19pm Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	So I was thinking recently about the ongoing "Clone Wars continuity crisis" and specifically how it affects the timeline of capital ship development, and here are my thoughts: Imperial-class Star Destroyer: With the development of the ISD pushed back to nearly the beginning of the Clone Wars, this has presented a huge problem... but there is a way around it. Since it is doubtful the ship was constructed until the start of the war, the ISD would be a prototype line - as would the Tector-class, which is really nothing more than a variant of the ISD anyways. Only a handful would be made during the war itself, and it may have been overshadowed by the "Victor Project" which, for the purposes of the war, was more suitable as a warship. This was mostly long-term thinking, as it was basically designed to work with the TIE Fighters. Post-war, the more traditional ISD-Is were begun to be made (as opposed to the prototypes, which I'll call the Imperator-class for the sake of labelling) at a trickle first, as the VSD-IIs were being rolled out in the early Empire. We can incorporate the debates in the Imperial Senate over the funding of the ISDs from the early WEG material here, so while they existed as early as the Clone Wars they were not produced in great numbers until the funding was resolved. When - and how - is difficult to say (and may have been sparked by some Dark Times event we haven't seen yet), but I would put it nearer to the Battle of Yavin than Order 66. If not, then there should probably be a retcon of another version inbetween this and the current "Mark II", as almost two decades without alteration seems doubtful for the Empire. Victory-class Star Destroyer - Instead of being an intermediate between the Acclamators and Venators, this should probably stay were it is instead of being adjusted to still be prior to the Venators, which would match its earliest descriptions as being a late Clone Wars era vessel. This would also make it easier to explain the proliferation of them in the early Empire, and make it easier to explain the Venators being phased out, as the VicStars were already being made in their place. KDY's various capital ships - Canonically, we still know very little about them, but there are a few assumptions that I believe can be made. We know virtually nothing about the Mandator-class star dreadnaught and Procurator-class star battlecruiser, other than they were more powerful than an Acclamator-class, were part of Kuat's sectorial fleet, and they had bulbous ventral protrusions housing their main reactor. There are a few more pieces of data that can be pulled indirectly. The same page mentions that the warships defending Kuat Sector had "local" hyperdrive jump ranges and that the Acclamator-class represented the return of "truly trans-galactic warships and armies". Considering the statement - and the mobility of the GAR - it's doubtful that Kuat's sectorial fleet would've been used by them. Other sources have also mentioned that the sectorial fleets tended to be used by sectorial armies, anyways. There is one visual clue as well - the bridge tower module is said to be "standard on KDY's smaller naval designs". This almost seems to contradict the statement in Complete Locations about the tower being a signature of KDY "to inspire terror" (in the bridge crew, I believe one of you jokingly said ), but this may just be a statement about KDY's designs at the start of the Clone Wars. Note that there is nothing stating that they were even "Star Destroyers" (and thus having a triangular shape), but I think that's a reasonable assumption in any case. Also note that there's the implication of "larger and more powerful warships" built by CEC, as I find it difficult to believe they'd allow KDY to get the contracts to build warships for their home sector. There's also the tidbit that Grizmallt is apparently also a major shipbuilder at this time - either a preexisting company whose home system hasn't been identified or (even more interestingly) a new player in the warship field during the Clone Wars. It was still loyal to the Republic just prior to the Battle of Geonosis, but if they were a member of the Techno Union they may have joined the Confederacy - lot of unknowns here. (There's a weaker case for Humbarine - after all they were mentioned alongside Corellia and Kuat - but they could've been just a customer for CEC and KDY. Of course, if they were a major Core Republic starship manufacturer, its devastation at the hands of Grievious takes on a new tactical meaning). In the ISC3, we do have mention of two Republic Navy craft - the "star battlecruiser Quaestor" and the Mandator-II star dreadnaught, which the Recusant-class light destroyer is evidently inferior to (the statement that it would take "1000" of them to take it on doesn't have any real meaning). There's very little to go on here, but we can infer (a) that the Quaestor was possibly an experimental vessel, as it had a catastrophic hyperspace accident that virtually destroyed a world and (b) that the Mandator-II was simply a trans-galactic version of the Mandator-I (which, I realize isn't much considering we know next to nothing about the Mandator-I). In any case, they don't seem to have had much impact on the war - even in the case of the threat of the Subjugator, no "heavy warships" were sent after it... although that could've been due to the McClellan-like size figures by Republic "experts" that stopped them. Indirectly, they are definitely smaller than the Executor, probably smaller than the Sarlacc prototype and possibly smaller than the Subjugators. (It's even a supposition that they were Republic Navy - they could've been produced for sectorial fleet forces) As an addendum, while not necessarily connected with the Clone Wars-era ships, the 'mystery ships' from Complete Locations should probably be mentioned. There's the "Praetor-class star battlecruiser" mentioned in the section on Hoth (which, it is important to note, had its scavenged parts power Echo Base's main reactors - not directly the ion cannon which had a power generator "remote linked" to the main generators). Then, of course, there's the familiar quote from the Executor section: "usually referred to in Rebel slang as a "Super Star Destroyer" - a term that covers many warship classes bigger than a Star Destroyer, from Star Cruisers to ultimate Star Dreadnoughts like Executor. Taking the "Star Destroyer" mentioned here to be the ISD (the "usual" SD according to SOTG2, much as the "usual" SSD being the Executors) we have at least one unknown "star cruiser" type vessel that is larger than the Imperial-class. To be "Super Star Destroyers" they would, in fact, need to have the traditional "Star Destroyer" shape. I bring this up here since they certainly could be holdovers from the Clone Wars - although the term wouldn't have been used then, as it's "Rebel slang" here and clarified to be derived from the "Super-class Star Destroyer" early designation for the Executor-class in the WOTC article on the Executor. Certainly the Quaetor could've been a Praetor-class. Also, Saxton makes an oblique reference in the ICS3 to the Venators sometimes acting as escorts for "battleships" left undescribed, but they could be anything ranging upwards to the Mandator-IIs down to the prototype ISDs, Tectors, or VicStars. (Personally, I'm of the mind that Giel's flagship may have been a Dark Times "armada flagship" class of Star Destroyer - possibly the missing star cruiser class - phased out by the Executor but still in service due to the limited number of Executors available at the time). -----signature----- Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Come on Dave, you're taking this stuff too seriously." - George Lucas "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions." - Karnak
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DarthBoba Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 6/18 12:05pm Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II) - Date Edited: 6/18 12:12pm (2 edits total) Edited By: DarthBoba
	blackmyron posted: (There's a weaker case for Humbarine - after all they were mentioned alongside Corellia and Kuat - but they could've been just a customer for CEC and KDY. Of course, if they were a major Core Republic starship manufacturer, its devastation at the hands of Grievious takes on a new tactical meaning). Population centers and factories are strategic targets, not tactical ones. I like the idea of the Imperator name being for the prototypes-it makes sense, too; the F-22 Raptor was originally named the Lightning II by Lockheed before the USAF officially named it the Raptor. EDIT: I've always disliked Saxton's criticism of the Imperial-class designator for being 'as ridiculous as an Japanese-class submarine' (or whatever the quote on SWTC exactly is, it's something along those lines.) For one, there have been individual warships & warship classes named for their countries; for another, ISDs are one of the Empire's big three for physical symbols (the other two being stormtroopers and TIE fighters) and therefore, naming it Imperial makes alot of sense if it's role is to enforce the fact that Imperial subjects live in an Empire. EDIT 2: The Deutschland USS United States sure has been used plenty of times, too -----signature----- Only a Prime can defeat Vader and his Emperor.
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blackmyron Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 6/18 1:10pm Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II) - Date Edited: 6/18 1:22pm (1 edits total) Edited By: blackmyron
	Saxton implied that Grievious' attack on Humbarine was for the sake of 'atrocity'; and we know next to nothing about the planet or its sector apart from vague statements - if there was a major Republic shipbuilding facility there, then his attack makes more sense (I realize I'm trying to sort out explanations for a war whose shifting timeline essentially erased any hope of determining any sort of long-term strategy or campaign ) Provisional class names have shown up before - the WOTC doc on the Executor stated that the term "Super-class" was the provisional name before the construction of the Executor was complete. As far as the Imperator; the Databank entry on the Venators strongly implies the "Imperators" were the earliest version of the "Imperials". I don't have a problem with either name, but I'm amused by those who pushed the Imperator as the correct name still use it in all cases (even the RE) despite Saxton saying that the class name was changed to "Imperial" once the Empire began. Edit: There's the first ISD-II... namely the Empire. -----signature----- Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Come on Dave, you're taking this stuff too seriously." - George Lucas "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions." - Karnak
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Tzizvvt78 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 6/18 6:08pm Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II) - Date Edited: 6/18 6:35pm (7 edits total) Edited By: Tzizvvt78
	"Imperator-class" is still used as a classname for an Imperial Star Destroyer stat sheet, made by licensed merchandise company ACME Specplate, so it's still valid as a name. Humbarine sector, along with Corellia and Kuat, are noted as being one of the most industrialized in the galaxy during the CW-era. Due to this status, it gets its planets subjugated or infiltrated, to provide a key industrial resource for local Separatist forces. This is from the Complete SW Encyclopedia, and I assume its based on the description of the three sectors in AOTC: Incredible Cross-Sections. I assume given it is thoroughly industrialized, the sector makes its own weapons and warships. The latter of which is administrated by central Republic command during the war, and redirected, leaving the sector vulnerable, according to the Barrow Oicunn profile on the official site. blackmyron posted: There is one visual clue as well - the bridge tower module is said to be "standard on KDY's smaller naval designs". This almost seems to contradict the statement in Complete Locations about the tower being a signature of KDY "to inspire terror" The statements are for two different standard command tower designs used for a variety of ships, much like the Trade Federation Core Ships. The one common on smaller warships is the Acclamator's, while the T-tower is connected to the ships associated with the Empire (ISDs, Executor etc.). Of the warship types written in Saxton and Luceno's books, there's little known. Given Saxton's grouping of ships in his old fansite, I assume they're meant to be analogs in name to the real-life warship types, if not exactly in function. (Or maybe most SW warships should be referred to as carriers, given that they often have plenty of fighters on board ) Btw, the reference to the Malevolence as a "heavy cruiser" that dwarfs the Star Destroyers (in the CW Campaign Guide) seems to be a candid reference to "cruisers bigger than destroyers" that the DK books mentioned. The same book also refers to battleships along with cruisers in the Republic Navy section, when talking about formations that have larger ships in them. Interestingly enough, the Complete Encyclopedia adds a tiny bit of trivia to the Praetor-class Star Battlecruiser. The class was designed and built during the Republic, and only saw limited use in the Galactic Civil War, as it was an outdated design at the time. There's mention of the centralization of the Republic Navy in the Encyclopedia as well, where it takes in all the home fleets. So the question of whether big warships from Kuat, Corellia, Humbarine, wherever, were part of the Navy or not, is answered. Regardless of use or area of operation, they became Chancellor Palpatine's property, so that clears it up. blackmyron posted: (the statement that it would take "1000" of them to take it on doesn't have any real meaning) It's an estimate of their relative power, just like the line about 4-6 Recusants to one Victory or Venator. Pretty straightforward sentence.
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blackmyron Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 6/18 10:28pm Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Tzizvvt78 posted: "Imperator-class" is still used as a classname for an Imperial Star Destroyer stat sheet, made by licensed merchandise company ACME Specplate, so it's still valid as a name. And as Saxton said himself, so is the Imperial-class; in fact it's the official name post-Clone Wars. And from the Databank entry on the Republic assault cruiser: "While the Venator Star Destroyer offered much for its developers to take pride in, the relentless taskmaster Blissex was not content. She had bigger plans in mind. She used her past successes to green-light the ultimate warship of her dreams, the Imperator-class Star Destroyer. Shortly after the end of the Clone Wars, the first test-bed models of this mighty warship were already functioning in classified Imperial shipyards accessible only the New Order's elite. After Blissex's marriage to Denn Wessex, one of Palpatine's first regional governors to be installed, she used her newfound political clout to prioritize the expansion of the Star Destroyer program. From these early designs, the final Imperial-class would forever change the way order was maintained in the galaxy. " Of course, this was written prior to the Clone Wars Visual Guide, which moved the Imperators all the way to nearly the start. If they are indeed exactly identical, we have the ship class exist unchanged for two decades before a "Mark Two", not to mention made prior to the VSD, which was always positioned as its predecessor. Tzizvvt78 posted: Btw, the reference to the Malevolence as a "heavy cruiser" that dwarfs the Star Destroyers (in the CW Campaign Guide) seems to be a candid reference to "cruisers bigger than destroyers" that the DK books mentioned. If you're referring to the quote about the Super Star Destroyers, it wouldn't apply in that case since it wasn't built with the Star Destroyer style - in any case they would've had to have been used by the Empire to qualify as an SSD, although that's possible. Tzizvvt78 posted: Interestingly enough, the Complete Encyclopedia adds a tiny bit of trivia to the Praetor-class Star Battlecruiser. The class was designed and built during the Republic, and only saw limited use in the Galactic Civil War, as it was an outdated design at the time. Good catch. So it was around during the Clone Wars. (Again, the Quaestor might or might not be this class). Tzizvvt78 posted: There's mention of the centralization of the Republic Navy in the Encyclopedia as well, where it takes in all the home fleets. So the question of whether big warships from Kuat, Corellia, Humbarine, wherever, were part of the Navy or not, is answered. Regardless of use or area of operation, they became Chancellor Palpatine's property, so that clears it up. They do after the incident at Rendili, and falls under the problem of where that battle is dated - the original placement is just prior to the start of the Outer Rim Sieges, and thus at the end of the war; the question is whether it will be moved to just prior to the start of the CWAS at the start of the war. In any case, while there was a consolidation of power, vessels still are separated out - the planetary militias still were still on Dreadnaught-class heavy cruisers (for example) while the GAR forces were on Venators, even if they were now answering directly to Coruscant instead of sectorial authorities; ships with local hyperdrives wouldn't be much useful to the rapidly moving GAR forces anyways. Tzizvvt78 posted: It's an estimate of their relative power, just like the line about 4-6 Recusants to one Victory or Venator. Pretty straightforward sentence. The problem is that is has no 'real' meaning; whereas there were probably a number of times a VSD faced off against 4-6 Recusants, it's doubtful that a 1000 Recusants ever faced off at once against a Mandator-II. If it's a direct power comparison, a more detailed explanation needs to be given. If it's a hypothetical "versus" argument, then the parameters should be mentioned. -----signature----- Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Come on Dave, you're taking this stuff too seriously." - George Lucas "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions." - Karnak
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Tzizvvt78 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 6/19 6:10am Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	blackmyron posted: And as Saxton said himself, so is the Imperial-class; in fact it's the official name post-Clone Wars. Well, if we look at the specplate, it seems to bear an Imperial cog symbol and the gun batteries appear to be of the kind seen on the Mk. II model, which came out around Battle of Yavin. Although the top name is Imperial, the class name given seperately is Imperator, so it might be official, if only for KDY's archiving purposes. blackmyron posted: Of course, this was written prior to the Clone Wars Visual Guide, which moved the Imperators all the way to nearly the start. If they are indeed exactly identical, we have the ship class exist unchanged for two decades before a "Mark Two", not to mention made prior to the VSD, which was always positioned as its predecessor. I'm not sure if that book is all the way at the start. If it talks of Venators (which had to have come some time after Geonosis) and a small amount of Tectors and Imperators, then it could be at some point after the creation of the Victory class as well. The CWCG says the Victory II was available in the CW period as well, so they've definitely pushed it back in time, which could lead to the Vic I right after Geonosis. This seems supported by the mention of industrial spies and engineers trying to copy the Acclamator right after that battle. blackmyron posted: If you're referring to the quote about the Super Star Destroyers, it wouldn't apply in that case since it wasn't built with the Star Destroyer style - in any case they would've had to have been used by the Empire to qualify as an SSD, although that's possible. I wasn't thinking of it as the Imperial ship type itself, only that it seems like a nod from WOTC to the thinking of cruiser > destroyer. I would like to know if the Empire copied its ion cannon design into some new Imperial model of ships. Their obsession with superweaponry would almost mandate it, but who knows. On that note, I hope the upcoming RECG and GAWCG will add some interesting ship designs. blackmyron posted: Good catch. So it was around during the Clone Wars. (Again, the Quaestor might or might not be this class). Yeah, I hope there'll be some answer from some licensed source one day. I don't mind signature vessels getting all the attention, but with books and rpgs namedropping obscure stuff that's hardly ever seen, it'd be fun to get some answers. blackmyron posted: They do after the incident at Rendili, and falls under the problem of where that battle is dated - the original placement is just prior to the start of the Outer Rim Sieges, and thus at the end of the war; the question is whether it will be moved to just prior to the start of the CWAS at the start of the war. The CSWE book doesn't give a timeframe, though it mentions the Rendili battle that sets this off. If the Outer Rim Sieges take place over many months, that's still some way from the end of the war itself. blackmyron posted: In any case, while there was a consolidation of power, vessels still are separated out - the planetary militias still were still on Dreadnaught-class heavy cruisers (for example) while the GAR forces were on Venators, even if they were now answering directly to Coruscant instead of sectorial authorities; ships with local hyperdrives wouldn't be much useful to the rapidly moving GAR forces anyways. No, but they would have some impact on local conditions, especially protecting vital sectors from the fate that befell Humbarine. In fact, the mention of the Humbarine fleets being redirected by the government, which in turn led to Humbarine's demise, shows that the Separatists are within range of the wealthy core sectors, which would make these ships relevant to the Republic defense efforts. On Curtis Saxton's fan site, he mentions the Mandator-II as a Republic command ship leading fleets during the wars, while the Mandator-I was just a Kuat defense vessel, and sites his two books for both references. So we know the author's intents in this case, even if it's for one class in particular. blackmyron posted: The problem is that is has no 'real' meaning; whereas there were probably a number of times a VSD faced off against 4-6 Recusants, it's doubtful that a 1000 Recusants ever faced off at once against a Mandator-II. If it's a direct power comparison, a more detailed explanation needs to be given. If it's a hypothetical "versus" argument, then the parameters should be mentioned. The parameters are given in the text. Saxton uses his power generation argument from his old site to gauge the various classes he writes about in his books. In this case, a Victory or Venator each rate the same as 4-6 Recusants, and a Mandator-II rates the same as a thousand Recusants. There's no telling how a battle would go, if a fleet of Recusants surprise a Mandator with its shields down, target a weak point etc. Only a general statement on the power generation for defenses and offensive systems. As any author, he writes what he knows and what he was hired for, analytical essays on technological and sociological aspects of SW. If you go to the site and read the parts dealing with power generation/ship designs etc. you'll see what he uses to base the trivia in his books on. I don't agree with all of it, but I realize what he means in his professional writing by looking at what made LFL consider him for the job.
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blackmyron Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 6/22 2:02pm Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Reading through the CWCG, I had another thought about the "quickness" of the Clone Wars ships like the Venators or Imperators after they were bumped back. The fears of a war were going on for almost two years - if they were discussing a general conscription then it isn't farfetched the Republic would've started requesting new ships designs, with contracts going to known loyalist companies - which would mean that the Venators were already theoretically designed when the war began. Of course, with most of the Republic blindsided by the defection of the various economic powers, it would be amusing if something like the Bulwark-class battlecruiser had initially been a Republic naval contract... -----signature----- Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Come on Dave, you're taking this stuff too seriously." - George Lucas "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions." - Karnak
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Tzizvvt78 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 6/23 8:04am Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	blackmyron posted: Reading through the CWCG, I had another thought about the "quickness" of the Clone Wars ships like the Venators or Imperators after they were bumped back. The fears of a war were going on for almost two years - if they were discussing a general conscription then it isn't farfetched the Republic would've started requesting new ships designs, with contracts going to known loyalist companies - which would mean that the Venators were already theoretically designed when the war began. There's some indications of this in the New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology. Basically, Kuat's entry at the start says the company continued manufacturing new designs at well-protected facilities, in anticipation of the coming war with the Separatists. Rothana is also only one of these local manufacturers they used for this as well. Looks like you were right.
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Tzizvvt78 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 6/27 5:07am Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II) - Date Edited: 6/27 5:13am (2 edits total) Edited By: Tzizvvt78
	Some nice cameos in Legacy 37: MC80 cruisers still active (in Black Sun and Alliance Remnant forces) and a Black Sun Nebulon-B frigate, too. The Imperial shipping vessel is also another Sean Cooke design (upper right). He's starting to look like the Ralph McQuarrie of the Legacy era.
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AdmiralNick22 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 6/27 6:38am Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Tzizvvt78 posted: Some nice cameos in Legacy 37: MC80 cruisers still active (in Black Sun and Alliance Remnant forces) and a Black Sun Nebulon-B frigate, too. The Imperial shipping vessel is also another Sean Cooke design (upper right). He's starting to look like the Ralph McQuarrie of the Legacy era. It is hard to say if the GA cruiser seen in that one panel is an actual MC80 or if it is some newer variant. It does have wings, but we only see a portion of the ship. In regards to the Black Sun ship, Jan Duursema confirmed that she used a MC80 because she figures crime lords would be more likely to have older surplus designs. --Adm. Nick -----signature----- Fleet Junkie Founding Father Official Greatest Admiral Ackbar Fan "A peaceful Galactic Alliance is the strongest pillar of a peaceful galaxy." - Luke Skywalker "I will surrender, Admiral, when I can no longer fight!" - Admiral Gar Stazi A New Hope
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Excellence Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 6/27 7:55pm Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	You cannot take a thousand Recusants seriously... It'd take one ramming to blow your precious Mandy skyhigh. Even if the initial kinetic impact is insufficient, chain reactions will do the rest. -----signature----- Rock-a-by baby, on the treetop, Beaming with pride, the filth they hold, But when the wind blows, my temper implodes, High above a pit, filled with sharkticons, Down will come hardcover addicts, beaming no more. ©
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Rogue_Follower Title: Manager: • Lit Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 6/27 8:32pm Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Well, you have to remember that the Executor survived a direct hit from three Impstars when its shields were up. So, a single ramming wouldn't destroy a Mandator outright. Though, the impact did bring the Ex's shields down, so your point is probably still valid if there were a large number of kamikaze attackers. But it's likely that the quote just means the Recusants' straight-up firepower, and doesn't include special tactics.
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Excellence Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 6/27 9:35pm Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	3 1600m superimpacts? What source is that from? It's positively ridiculous. And they're superhard alloy starship hulls. In front of my own eyes I saw a braking car crash into another car. It was braking for a full 10 secs from below driving speed and even that "little" impact crumpled the metal. I saw the front point crumple like metal paper from such a little thing. And this is Impstars! -----signature----- Rock-a-by baby, on the treetop, Beaming with pride, the filth they hold, But when the wind blows, my temper implodes, High above a pit, filled with sharkticons, Down will come hardcover addicts, beaming no more. ©
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Tzizvvt78 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 6/28 4:04am Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	Well, the power generation thing is what it is. It's no guarantee for a victory, even in a straight-up battle. It gets worse when the attacking party surprises a larger ship, as been shown in several novels, etc. The time taken to get shields up, get turbolasers lined up, etc. Even with the power ratio, there's no guarantee a larger ship will hold up to even a fraction of the opposing force required under those conditions. The Republic Commando game had a Lucrehulk go down against two Acclamators, one it pounded and one that snuck up behind it and fired away. The Shadows of the Empire comic depicted a strike cruiser raising its shields to ward off shots from the Rebel fleet it had discovered, only to fall to one X-wing that had taken a looooong U-turn to surprise it from behind. Dark Empire I shows a small Super Star Destroyer and at least two Star Destroyers going down from a barrage by one Imperial-class Star Destroyer, one MC90 cruiser and a host of smaller ships. To contrast this, in Destroy Malevolence, the Malevolence managed to fend off three Venators, while they pummled it for hours. That was due to its heavy armor as well, according to the dialog in the episode. Similarly, the Mediator in Vector Prime survived an internal nuclear explosion in one of its hangar bays and managed to have its engines stay online. And the aforementioned Executor survived an impact with three Imperials due to its shields being up in Race for Survival.
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blackmyron Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 6/28 1:01pm Subject: Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)
	There is something "Titanic" about a statement like that, though - reminds me of Tarkin's final scene in ANH. While power generation is a reasonable explanation, there are some that take that ratio very, very seriously as a literal interpretation. -----signature----- Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Come on Dave, you're taking this stuff too seriously." - George Lucas "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions." - Karnak
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