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Author Topic: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct
PainRack  442 posts
Registered: Jan '04
24168_Aayla Secura
Date Posted: 10/16/05 7:31am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct
I would like to know what would be considered out of bounds markers.

 
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Kudzu  6437 posts
Registered: Jun '05
18640_Clone Trooper
Date Posted: 10/16/05 10:06am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct
Why am I not surprised that nearly all of the Saxtonites who did flame and bash Karen and Ryan are refusing to sign this, even though the Fandalorians already almost entirely have?

 

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PainRack  442 posts
Registered: Jan '04
24168_Aayla Secura
Date Posted: 10/16/05 10:18am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct - Date Edited: 10/16/05 10:21am (1 edits total) Edited By: PainRack
Kudzu posted:
Why am I not surprised that nearly all of the Saxtonites who did flame and bash Karen and Ryan are refusing to sign this, even though the Fandalorians already almost entirely have?

Name one person who did flame her first.

Actually, cancel that. name the saxtonites who did debate with Karen and Ryan. You find that there are at best 2-3 of them. This as compared to the majority of us who has been accused of this "flaming", aka myself, who wasn't even present when Karen was discussing this issue. Indeed, I have never written a single word to Karen myself, yet, I find myself being accused as being one of the insidious people who flamed her.

How interesting.

 
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AdmiralNick22  6914 posts
Registered: May '03
7783_Ackbar
Date Posted: 10/16/05 10:21am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct
Fleet Junkies, Fandalorians, Saxtonites...

It is sometimes amusing to me how we all create these titles. Which, BTW, I am totally guilty of. Still, it is funny if you say aloud one of the three above terms. happy

--Adm. Nick

 

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Kudzu  6437 posts
Registered: Jun '05
18640_Clone Trooper
Date Posted: 10/16/05 10:23am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct - Date Edited: 10/16/05 10:30am (2 edits total) Edited By: Kudzu
PainRack posted:
Kudzu posted:
Why am I not surprised that nearly all of the Saxtonites who did flame and bash Karen and Ryan are refusing to sign this, even though the Fandalorians already almost entirely have?

Name one person who did flame her first.

Actually, cancel that. name the saxtonites who did debate with Karen and Ryan. You find that there are at best 2-3 of them. This as compared to the majority of us who has been accused of this "flaming", aka myself, who wasn't even present when Karen was discussing this issue. Indeed, I have never written a single word to Karen myself, yet, I find myself being accused as being one of the insidious people who flamed her.

How interesting.


FTeik...and, PainRack, backhanded snipes are pretty much the same thing.

If you're not afraid of not being able to insult people - if you don't do it already - why not just sign this.

 

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The2ndQuest  40069 posts
Title: Manager:
-Literature
-LACWAC
-Games
 Registered: Jan '00
49624_H234: Samus
Date Posted: 10/16/05 10:36am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct - Date Edited: 10/16/05 5:14pm (3 edits total) Edited By: The2ndQuest
Let's stop generalizing any one particular group of fans as being at fault here- there are individuals at fault here, not any group as a whole.

I'm going to iron this situation out.

When users are driven away from this board by the actions of others, be it Mara fans, VIP's or just typical posters, I don't like it. It reflects bad on the Lit forum and, by association (IMO) on me.

I'm still catching up and reviewing the situation, but this will be dealt with. The last thing we need is another Salvatore situation or another ridiculous "OMG! SSD length!" debate dragging threads off topic whenever it arises.

 

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rogue_wookiee  15100 posts
Registered: Apr '04
7942_Chewbacca
Date Posted: 10/16/05 10:53am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct
Good post, 2Q. You hit it right on the head.

I'd rather kiss rogue_wookiee.

Great. First Sinre, then Sorridom and now Kudzu? When will it end?

 

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FTeik  4043 posts
Registered: Nov '00
39843_Palpatine
Date Posted: 10/16/05 10:58am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct
@The2endQuest:

It started all here:

http://boards.theforce.net/Literature/b10003/21603019/p5



@Kudzu: I suggest you read it, too, so you can see, who made the snipes in the first place.

 

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RogueWompRat  4444 posts
Registered: Feb '03
23544_Tion
Date Posted: 10/16/05 11:05am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct
Here's an idea: why not treat VIPs like anyone else, instead of paragons of virtue? Being a VIP doesn't automatically instill incredible insight and infallibility to that person.

If the sole reason for these people to interact with "their public" here is to just soak up "You rock!" "You are my favo-wit author!" "I'm sending you a hug!" then call it what it is: fan worship. Not "discussion".

I agree. I've noticed the threads that authors frequent become mindless spamfests. And Traviss herself was no saint, from what I hear.

Fleet Junkies, Fandalorians, Saxtonites...

It is sometimes amusing to me how we all create these titles. Which, BTW, I am totally guilty of. Still, it is funny if you say aloud one of the three above terms.

--Adm. Nick

Most of you may not remember this, but that was actually me who created the term "Fleet Junkies". I should have copyrighted it, then I'd be rolling in dough. tongue

 

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Master_Keralys  6378 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
 Registered: Oct '03
39907_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 10/16/05 11:11am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct - Date Edited: 10/16/05 11:13am (1 edits total) Edited By: Master_Keralys
In general, I do not believe that they deserve "special" treatment or that as VIP's they are any more deserving of not being flamed than anyone else. The problem - as the authors NOTED IN THEIR BLOGS, for the fifteen gazillionth time I've told you this - was that BOTH sides were getting to a point wehre basically they just kept flaming each other/bashing each others' sources - be it Saxton or be it Karen and RK - that they were fed up with it.

They were, I think, sick of arguing about something that actually is, as was pointed out, NOT that important. I come in with the "Saxtonites" on this - I don't think the number was reasonable. However, the manner in which it was dealt with was WRONG.

If I as an author were to come in and do "Reconnaisance" - I like the way you put that, Borleias - and find myself in the middle of a heated argument, as the target of repeated personal attacks, I'd probably leave. I have left other boards where I finally just got fed up with being a personal target rather than having my arguments dealt with, or even when it was just too much of the first with the second still happening. Borleias, you may not have a problem with a "flame environment." Around here, most people do. As such, I think we should hold everyone - I'm not pointing fingers, I really mean everyone - to the kind of standard that is acceptable for these boards. That is the issue. Not the 3m argument in particular. But how we treat people in general, and VIPs who, believe it or not, have no reason to come on here except that they want this to be a better experience for US.

This thread was started as a constructive way of trying to fix things. Did you have to try to bring up all the same problems again, instead of working with those of us who are trying to get some basic compromise? Would you prefer they were here to discuss it with, or not? And, as I've asked before, if you don't want them back, can you at least make the attempt not to screw it up for those of us who do - a majority, as far as I can tell.

If you don't want them back, fine, don't sign it. That's your prerogative. But why come start another argument in a thread designed to be conciliatory? I am no worshiper of any author. They all have their flaws. I will criticize as necessary. But I do not believe that the best effect has been achieved by the way things HAVE been done. And if we treat them - AND everyone else on these boards - with decency as well as good argument, it'll be a lot more productive. They shouldn't have to wade through personal insults to get to the reconnaisance they want/need, and they'll be a lot more likely to take advantage of that information if it's not delivered in the way it was in the last exchange.

Edit: and you can't blame the authors for OUR not acting responsibly. Karen had fun at times. There's nothing wrong with having threads that are FUN. She also had some good serious discussions, and did some nice things like keeping people updated on her work on Mando'a - things she didn't have to do. It's her prerogative to have fun. That others did not behave responsibly does not reflect poorly on her.

- Keralys

 

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Qu_Klaani  1559 posts
Registered: Mar '04
39890_Ki-Adi-Mundi
Date Posted: 10/16/05 11:25am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct - Date Edited: 10/16/05 11:31am (2 edits total) Edited By: Qu_Klaani
Quiet_Mandalorian posted:
Rather odd contrast to his usual manner.


I post so rarely you could hardly judge that, but this only happened with you, for very specific reasons, mostly to do with you winding me up so badly, but please, your dislike of me has absolutley nothing to do with how I was when talking to karen, and I really hope you won't ruin another thread with pointless unjustified personal attacks purely because I don't like mando roleplay. I was I'd say, overly nice, going on about how great the article was and so on so as to "soften the blow" because I didn't particularly want to have a go at her. She completly overreacted and just left, long before anyone was seen to "flame her," so can we please stop this misreprenting what happened as her being "driven away." She chose to leave because she didnt like being criticised, she has every right to do so, and we have every right to be disapointed with her for it. I mean really, can somebody fine me some of these posts in which she was "flamed" and "driven off" between "9/17 2:50pm" when the thread about the article was started by karen, and "9/22 1:07am" when she posted in her A&A thread that she was leaving, I'd bet my membership here that there isn't much more than harsh but justifiable criticism.

edit: Oh and before my request is inevitably ignored and Im just attacked for not "signing" this silly "pledge," I only posted this because Im sick of the truth being falsely represented, and it is very much relevant to the topic in hand to point out what actually happened.

 

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Quiet_Mandalorian  8380 posts
Registered: Apr '05
40335_Boba Fett
Date Posted: 10/16/05 11:32am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct - Date Edited: 10/16/05 11:33am (1 edits total) Edited By: Quiet_Mandalorian
Master_Keralys posted:
Edit: and you can't blame the authors for OUR not acting responsibly. Karen had fun at times. There's nothing wrong with having threads that are FUN. She also had some good serious discussions, and did some nice things like keeping people updated on her work on Mando'a - things she didn't have to do. It's her prerogative to have fun. That others did not behave responsibly does not reflect poorly on her.
Well said.

Qu_Klaani posted:
I post so rarely you could hardly judge that,
I'm merely going by what interaction I've had with you.

Qu_Klaani posted:
but this only happened with you, for very specific reasons, mostly to do with you winding me up so badly
Shouldn't allow yourself to get to that state then. I usually end up in trouble when I do.

Qu_Klaani posted:
but please, your dislike of me has absolutley nothing to do with how I was when talking to karen, and I really hope you won't ruin another thread with pointless unjustified personal attacks purely because I don't like mando roleplay.
That's not the point. The point is that you attempted to put that preference of yours across in a markedly uncivil manner.

Not attacking you personally, just trying to explain my position.

 

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Qu_Klaani  1559 posts
Registered: Mar '04
39890_Ki-Adi-Mundi
Date Posted: 10/16/05 11:33am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct - Date Edited: 10/16/05 11:47am (1 edits total) Edited By: Qu_Klaani
You were hardly a saint yourself in that argument, but please, not here, we'll get the thread locked.

edit: to be actually on topic, I read through the thread from when the debate started, and karen barely even posts at all, she makes a couple of points and then presumably sits back to watch, no one insults her or Ryan at all. Any so-called "flaming" of karen happened after she left, fact. So will everyone who's been accusing other people of chasing Karen away apologise, or is that too much to ask?

 

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Quiet_Mandalorian  8380 posts
Registered: Apr '05
40335_Boba Fett
Date Posted: 10/16/05 11:56am Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct
Qu_Klaani posted:
You were hardly a saint yourself in that argument
raised_brow

I'd love to debate that with you.

Time? Place?

 

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Commander5052  3504 posts
Registered: Aug '05
45237_Mando'ade
Date Posted: 10/16/05 12:04pm Subject: RE: Making the Boards Safe for Ms. Traviss's Return: An All-Around Pledge of Good Conduct
I'm in.
I've had an e-mail correspondence with Karen, and she says she might return.
This could sway her in that direction.

 

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